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NC Shariah ban becomes law without governor’s signature despite CAIR pressure

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posted on Aug, 31 2013 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
My point is that both Shariah and Jewish law dictate how Muslims/Jews eat, dress, pray... Both are pretty much identical to each other... and both are equally "foreign" to North America.

No, you have no point. The OP specifically addresses foreign laws from superceding US laws in US courts. There have been instanced where Shariah Law has been used in US court cases. You can't provide a single case of Jewish laws being used in this way, instead you are using this as an excuse to spew your vitriol. Cite court cases where Jewish religious laws have been used. If you can't move on.


So you can't exactly pass a law against foreign laws, without offending the Jews - who apparently are powerful enough to erect a huge menorah in front of the white house

Great, if what you say is true then you can show me where the Jews are getting this law overturned. If not, then you are proven wrong.




I'll tell them right now. Your Jewish laws hold no place in American courts. Hey, the Jews told me to tell you they know and it's cool with them. Now can you cite a court case where a Judge used Jewish religious laws to supercede US law? No? Cool, bye.

You can only dream that the Jews will let American Goyim tell them how to live their lives.

Well they were just told. Show me where they are protesting this. If not move on liar and spew your hatred somewhere else.




sk0rpi0n : Care to cite examples of Muslims decapitating their daughters in the US?
OccamsRazor04 : Here you go.

Weak.
I expected news of an actual decapitation, as promised by the OP.

You're right. Give the guy a medal for his Shariah Law honor killing, since it wasn't decapitation.
You're disgusting.
edit on 31-8-2013 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 31 2013 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



There have been instanced where Shariah Law has been used in US court cases. You can't provide a single case of Jewish laws being used in this way, instead you are using this as an excuse to spew your vitriol.

I don't feel like digging up dirt right now.
US court cases or not, plenty of sensible Americans already know how influential Jews are in reshaping America. Your vice president admits that . You can stay in denial.


Great, if what you say is true then you can show me where the Jews are getting this law overturned. If not, then you are proven wrong.

If what I say is true? Click on the link. Then we can debate if that picture of the huge menorah at the white house is photoshopped. The fact that Jews have erected a large religious symbol in front of the white house, show how easily they can plant their symbols anywhere in America.


Well they were just told. Show me where they are protesting this.
You will see them protest when someone tells them not to live by their religious laws. That hasn't happened yet.


You're right. Give the guy a medal for his Shariah Law honor killing, since it wasn't decapitation.
You're disgusting.

You're disgusting and a liar for equating a murder with a Shariah honor killing.
Like as if, other mentally unstable Americans don't kill their family members. I keep hearing it on the news all the time. The only reason you think any murder carried out by a Muslim has something to do with Shariah is because you hate the Muslim people enough to think so.

edit on 31-8-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2013 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

So you can't provide a single source, not a single case, there is no Jewish outrage at this NC law, I provide Muslim honor killings and evidence of Shariah Law used in the US court system, yet you think somehow you're still in the right?

Here is what you have been drooling for. Beheadings. Enjoy.


Beheading in New York Appears to Be Honor Killing, Experts Say

www.foxnews.com...



posted on Aug, 31 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 

He was referring to being a 27 year Army Reservist having served 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan...

Why is this fact being blatantly omitted?

Because it debunks the ridiculous spin.

I dont care what the Sharia Law people do in other countries, thats the whole point.

The sheeple here are terrified that laws from other nations will be implemented here. Thats the whole point of this thread...

edit on 31-8-2013 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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I've authored a thread on this before, where I've made my opinion on this whole mess known, so the following post is mostly a retread of what I've said in that thread.

Considering that the US constitution ALREADY has protection from "foreign law" superseding US law, what the judge said is true, the bill was totally unnecessary, and the judge was a coward for not vetoing it, because its SOLE purpose was bigotry based off ignorance.

What other posters have said here is absolutely true. There has never been a serious case where Shariah was used successfully in a non-civil dispute in the US, where the result would've gone the other way otherwise. The case mentioned was in not at all as described (the judge was not a muslim in any sense, having a Quran at hand isn't a sign of muslimness, it is a sign of a prepared courtroom), and the judge made no claim at all that the assault was justified, he dismissed the case because there was not enough evidence.

Another poster mentioned Beth Din courts, which I think is very important to bring as a comparison.
For those who may not know, Beth Din of America has been operating in the US since 1960. They are used by jews in matters such as divorce, inheritance and financial dealings (where at least one of the parties is jewish). NOBODY is calling for the removal of the Beth Din courts, because that is obviously idiotic. However, due to bigotry, muslims would not be afforded the same rights- In fact, this law would cause problems for the Jews as well.

Lets look at some examples of how such a law (banning the use of Sharia) would be DETRIMENTAL:
If a couple was married in another country, following sharia law, and moved to the US, where the husband perhaps started misbehaving. The woman would have a hell of a time getting a divorce, because the original marriage contract was written up following Shariah law. Anyone who tried to help her would be punished for using Shariah law. If the husband then left the country, provided her no support, and tried taking their children with him, the woman would have no recourse available to her, because the US courts do not allow the use of Sharia law. Anyone who'd try helping her would be punished.

A less emotional example, say two groups (I dunno, lets say a muslim businessman in the US and a muslim businessman outside the US) made a financial deal, and the contract was again written up following shariah law. If one party pocketed the money and didn't hold up their part of the deal (for example, the businessman outside the US was meant to set up a scholarship program to educate children about the US), the other party would have no recourse, and the guy would get away with it. If anyone tried helping the US businessman, they would be punished.

In fact, most business dealings (money, of course, being the number two weapon in the WoT after drones) with foreign countries would totally be impossible. Want to set up a school for girls ("Three Cups of Tea"'s falseness notwithstanding
) in Pakistan? Impossible. Want to set up a scholarship program in Syria? Impossible. Want to set up an agricultural assistance program to wean Afghanistan off heroin production? Impossible. Want to set up a medical assistance program in Sudan? Impossible. Want to bomb them all with drones? Yeah, that we can do.

I find it incredibly hilarious (and revealing) that the same side that wanted to declare Christianity the state religion in North Carolina is the same side that pushed (and was successful) in implementing this bill. Interesting how they attempted to shove in anti-abortion laws with the rest of this bill (I do not know exactly if they succeeded in that, or if the bill was revised).
edit on 1-9-2013 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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TrueAmerican
There have been too many instances where Sharia law has been used in this country. And that's just not right. No, you can't behead your daughter here to defend your family honor. No, you can't decapitate your daughter here because she was raped, even if she was wearing seductive clothing. And no, you can't bring your damned laws and invade our legal system.


I'm pretty sure the above actions are illegal under US law regardless whether Sharia law is illegal or not, and are NOT valid legal defenses. Claiming "Sharia law" while in commission of a crime does not make that crime suddenly not illegal simply because one claims Shiria. In addition, laws prevent nothing.

I highly doubt we have to worry about beheadings being suddenly valid defenses or the basis for acquittal in the US judicial system.

When any action (such as Sharia law) is contrary to US law, US law prevails. Making a US law specifically targeting "Sharia" law is just pathetic.

Thank god we have lawmakers actually putting effort into laws that actually matter and directly affect our day to day lives, than waste time on this crap. Oh wait. #sarcasm.

Way to go lawmakers.
#sarcasm
edit on 1-9-2013 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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Way to go North Carolina.
The USA does not need any shariah law or any countries law.
We also do not need any Muslim garbage of any kind.
That means there laws, tradition or religion.



posted on Sep, 1 2013 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


It speaks volumes about the inherent problems of the US justice system that this is even required.

P


It isn't. These people are just trying to raise more bible belt paranoia to make people think it's needed.

Apparently it's working.



posted on Sep, 1 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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Actually under the US constitution is very clear that no laws are above or surpass the laws of the land.

So this is not even necessary as any Shariah laws Under Islam are nullified with our constitution as they also follow the believe that Islam law is the law of the land.


But that is ok, I like the fact that some states are making sure that no waste of time will be inflicted on the higher courts if any issues regarding Islam law ever comes to challenge existing laws.


Islam laws and even Sharia have no room in the US judicial system where our constitutional laws protect all citizens regardless of religion.

The biggest gift that our forefathers gave to this nation of diverse people was the US constitution.




posted on Sep, 3 2013 @ 03:18 AM
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Hardly surprising that my main points remain unaddressed.


People are missing the point that Jewish and Islamic religious laws are pretty much identical in many aspects. You can't really ban one law while retaining the other.

Some examples from Europe, illustrating what happens when the state tells people how to live their religious lives...

Germany Jews and Muslims protest at circumcision ruling

Jewish, Muslim Leaders Unite to Fight Polish Ritual Slaughter Ban

A ban on certain Islamic practices would also affect Jewish religious life. But I'm sure there are going to be some people who insist we do away with Islamic religious law while, retaining Jewish religious law. But that only speaks volumes of their own character, and is inconsequential in the larger picture.

edit on 3-9-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 

He was referring to being a 27 year Army Reservist having served 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan...

Why is this fact being blatantly omitted?

Because it debunks the ridiculous spin.

No, because that isn't true and is not even his explanation. You can read his retort, in which he states he is a Methodist and he was just saying he had a Koran. Now if the court proceedings would clear him, why did he threaten to throw the man who was assaulted in jail if the man released the recordings of the courtroom? You would think he would be happy to have them out.


I dont care what the Sharia Law people do in other countries, thats the whole point.

The sheeple here are terrified that laws from other nations will be implemented here. Thats the whole point of this thread...

edit on 31-8-2013 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)

No, the point is that Shariah Law HAS been used, but you won't talk about that since all you want to talk about is Jews are the devil, yet can not give a similar instance of Jewish religious laws superceeding US laws in a court room. Go spew hatred elsewhere.



posted on Sep, 3 2013 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by babloyi
What other posters have said here is absolutely true. There has never been a serious case where Shariah was used successfully in a non-civil dispute in the US, where the result would've gone the other way otherwise. The case mentioned was in not at all as described (the judge was not a muslim in any sense, having a Quran at hand isn't a sign of muslimness, it is a sign of a prepared courtroom), and the judge made no claim at all that the assault was justified, he dismissed the case because there was not enough evidence.

There was a video of the assault the judge would not admit, and the muslim man admitted to the assault on record. So if I rob a bank, am caught on tape doing so, and then admit to it in court, should my case be thrown out for not enough evidence?



posted on Sep, 4 2013 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


There is no video of any attacking. There is some shaky cam footage that doesn't show anything and only has talking, overlayed with "HE ATTACKED ME!" in text on youtube. No proof.

And he didn't threaten to throw him in jail at all. I get the feeling you're going at this from memory, so you might be mixing up a few things. Here is his "retort":
www.volokh.com...
edit on 4-9-2013 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2013 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


You don't seem to understand the (simple) difference in the term "law"

The OP, and this bill, are about ACTUAL government enforced law. As in, you violate such law, and the police arrest you.

You keep bringing up Jewish "laws" on diet and lifestyle. If a jew eats some bacon they don't go to jail. If a non-jew eats bacon the jews don't kill them and then get let off free because their religion hates bacon. (wtf anyway) Those are SELF IMPOSED rules to live by.

The bill is about making sure that sharia law doesn't have any standing in ACTUAL, state enforceable law.

It's a very easy distinction to make, and I think it shows a lot about your character that you are willfully ignoring those differences. You destroy your own argument and look silly.

But that's beside the point, the law the OP is talking about is ridiculous. The constitution, in addition to every single state and city law in the country, ALREADY outlaw the vast majority of sharia law aspects. If you already have a law about not killing people, you don't need another law about not allowing the law that allows killing people. That's just stupid and redundant. If any judge allows any sharia nonsense into their courtroom the defendant will easily win an appeal.

OP, quit being such a scaredy pants. Seriously.



posted on Sep, 4 2013 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by James1982
 


Originally posted by James1982
You keep bringing up Jewish "laws" on diet and lifestyle. If a jew eats some bacon they don't go to jail. If a non-jew eats bacon the jews don't kill them and then get let off free because their religion hates bacon. (wtf anyway) Those are SELF IMPOSED rules to live by.

This just goes to show a fundamental misunderstanding of what "shariah" means. Because that is what it is. As a muslim you can't eat pork. As a muslim don't make promises you can't keep. As a muslim don't break your promises. As a muslim give charity, etc. etc. In the same way that that makes up most of "jewish law" (or Halakha), so does it make up most of shariah. Jewish law ALSO contains some legal rulings of stoning your son for talking back to you, or stoning adulterers, etc., much like Islamic shariah contains some such things (cutting off the hands of unrepentant thieves, etc.).
When a Jewish person says they follow halakha, people don't automatically assume they mean "Oh, I advocate the stoning of a boy who talks back to his father". Yet when a muslim says they follow shariah, people seem to assume "Oh, you advocate the cutting off of hands!"

I've seen this misunderstanding constantly thrown around, here and elsewhere, with well-meaning people saying stuff like "I've met many muslims who are good people, they don't follow shariah".

Considering the incredible similarity of the two systems, I think sk0rpi0n's point is simply that...it is purely bigotry against Islam, otherwise we'd be hearing about "creeping halakha".
edit on 4-9-2013 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2013 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Actually under the US constitution is very clear that no laws are above or surpass the laws of the land.

So this is not even necessary as any Shariah laws Under Islam are nullified with our constitution as they also follow the believe that Islam law is the law of the land.


But that is ok, I like the fact that some states are making sure that no waste of time will be inflicted on the higher courts if any issues regarding Islam law ever comes to challenge existing laws.


Islam laws and even Sharia have no room in the US judicial system where our constitutional laws protect all citizens regardless of religion.

The biggest gift that our forefathers gave to this nation of diverse people was the US constitution.



Exactly. Excellent use of time and resources North Carolina politicians, it's not like those things could've gone into something a little more useful.
edit on 4-9-2013 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by James1982
 


Originally posted by James1982
You keep bringing up Jewish "laws" on diet and lifestyle. If a jew eats some bacon they don't go to jail. If a non-jew eats bacon the jews don't kill them and then get let off free because their religion hates bacon. (wtf anyway) Those are SELF IMPOSED rules to live by.

This just goes to show a fundamental misunderstanding of what "shariah" means. Because that is what it is. As a muslim you can't eat pork. As a muslim don't make promises you can't keep. As a muslim don't break your promises. As a muslim give charity, etc. etc. In the same way that that makes up most of "jewish law" (or Halakha), so does it make up most of shariah. Jewish law ALSO contains some legal rulings of stoning your son for talking back to you, or stoning adulterers, etc., much like Islamic shariah contains some such things (cutting off the hands of unrepentant thieves, etc.).
When a Jewish person says they follow halakha, people don't automatically assume they mean "Oh, I advocate the stoning of a boy who talks back to his father". Yet when a muslim says they follow shariah, people seem to assume "Oh, you advocate the cutting off of hands!"

I've seen this misunderstanding constantly thrown around, here and elsewhere, with well-meaning people saying stuff like "I've met many muslims who are good people, they don't follow shariah".

Considering the incredible similarity of the two systems, I think sk0rpi0n's point is simply that...it is purely bigotry against Islam, otherwise we'd be hearing about "creeping halakha".
edit on 4-9-2013 by babloyi because: (no reason given)


I get what you are saying, but sharia law does also include various "dark" aspects that have no place in a civilized society. And jews in general aren't militant against infidels. Jews keep to themselves and live in their own little world, many muslims want to take their little world and force it on everyone else.

The fear over sharia law is totally ridiculous here in America. In the UK I can see the fear being more justified, but that's not what the OP is talking about. In the US people who are scared of sharia are generally just ignorant christian extremists, who given the chance, would impose their beliefs on us just like the extremist muslims would.

So I don't agree with the OP or any of this sharia fear, but I also don't like people twisting things. There is a huge difference between making it illegal for sharia to get involved in the legal system, and making it illegal for jews to live their lives as they see fit. Making sharia illegal is redundant and stupid as I already said, since our current laws already defend against it. But it's still a different concept than self imposed laws that don't have any bearing with the legal system.



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by James1982
 


The OP, and this bill, are about ACTUAL government enforced law. As in, you violate such law, and the police arrest you.

Fair enough.



You keep bringing up Jewish "laws" on diet and lifestyle. If a jew eats some bacon they don't go to jail. If a non-jew eats bacon the jews don't kill them and then get let off free because their religion hates bacon. (wtf anyway) Those are SELF IMPOSED rules to live by.

I keep bringing up Jewish religious laws on threads like these... because they are pretty much identical to Islamic religious law, which is being suspected of being Shariah "creeping" into America.

The very people who look suspiciously at Islamic dietary law seem to remain silent on Jewish dietary law.

Hypocrisy? or bias? You decide.

edit on 5-9-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 09:49 AM
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There is a sharia advocate that posts at ATS. He said he'd have no problem with a sharia government chopping off his child's hand if he was caught stealing. So Sharia goes MUCH further than 'just' diet and clothing restrictions. Sharia has no place in a modern and civilized court system in the USA.





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