It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

My theory: Every story in the bible is fake but has great meaning...

page: 3
0
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 04:15 AM
link   
Seek wisdom in determining if (jesus) may or might not existed for what is written within the bible need not to be said for the truths within you.

Jesus never stated that one should belive in Jesus the person but belive the word from GOD which is good and is being shared through this son of god.

The bible is several lessons and the main lesson is Understanding.
We all have an ability to gain knowledge through out our entire life, but many do not understand what thy learned.

GOD is good for through his son,
& Through the Sun of man you would find the light ; be wise.

The bible is the Life as a whole and once you can open your mind up and not be skeptic you will see truth out weights the faulse.

The evil within the human heart will seduce you to search for an image to relate to, although with your eyes shut you'll find what is truth without seeing it.....Jesus is the example the skeptic seeks: for with a physical presents some would belive.

I apologize if I m not cleared through my expressions but ever which way your judgment goes toward my words, there will stand your option.






[edit on 16-11-2004 by 2ndSEED]




posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 06:50 AM
link   
The concern I have in the primary post is the total disregard for the commitment to law, history and oral tradition of the Hebrew people. It seems to me a good reason to 'choose' the Hebrew people is because of their verbatim accounts of oral tradition, handling of vital information and yes - cynicism. One of the reasons why many people find it a boring read (myself included in some parts) is because the Book goes through great pains describing the people and events of the period. It's not just good authorship by man because when you're given something and told that it's the 'word of God' then it's something you're going to handle with extreme care. After all, do you want to be the one responsible for botching up God's word? No, so you practice and practice and check and re-check to make sure you're correct in what you say. The cynicism comes from all angles in the Bible, especially when Jesus comes into the scene. A man comes along claiming to be the son of God. That's going to raise not only eyebrows but fists. He gets challenged every step of the way. They do everything they can to de-bunk him so that people thousands of years later on ATS don't have to go through his words looking for unanswered questions. Give some props to the Hebrew people folks, this was their life's work. We're all part-timers who try to fit God into our busy schedule.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by they see ALL

we can still go to heaven if we follow His teachings but he NEVER existed...

any thoughts???




[edit on 13-11-2004 by John bull 1]


Yup, it is not a theory. Hypothesis, but not a theory.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by they see ALL

Originally posted by Killak420

Maybe he has meanings for everything because he is the SON OF GOD. Okay so if he is the son of GOD but didnt exist then how do we know about him and why does 1/2 of the world beleive in him and why was an entire religion formed in his beleives and follow his words and his doings.


ahhh. i was praying someone would ask this...

anyway, some people can do things that have meaning every day of their life. it will take alotta practice, but it can be done.

as far as your second argument, MORE than HALF the population of the world believes in ISLAM. does this mean that they are the truth??? a friend of mine once said: "truth lasts forever, this is why the christian religion lasted so long". i then said: "then why is Islam still here and they started way before christianinty?" he then shut his mouth...

it is easy to get teachings out, all you have to do is write a book and tell the world it is truth and translate it in every language. thats how!!!

your turn.

Christianity started before Islam and the reason why Islam has spread so much around the world its because Islam seeks out the weak and the hopleless and gives them something to believe in and gives them hope.
I agree with you on the writing of a book and telling the world its the truth but you have to realize that if you dont beleive in something then you would fall for anything.





posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:49 AM
link   
The Bible is a guidline to help you through your life. It was made for you to learn from and for you to follow the path of God. It also teaches you about good and evil and what is right and wrong. Satan is real and so is Jehova so all you have to do is pick your side. We are all sheep and GOD is our Shepard and we must follow the sheapord into the path of rightousness. If we dont follow the shepard then we will go astray and then the wolf well kill us and devour our souls. I dont know how many of you got the point of that but I hope you did maybe it will change your minds for the better. I can onlly hope for you and pray for your souls because God shows mercy to those who repent in his name and ask for forgiveness for he is the one and the only one who can judge thee and take thee into heaven to live with him in all the glory of god for with out his guidence you all shall be lost in this evil world and shall fall pray to the wolf who is full of evil and stops at nothing to defy God. Remember if you dont beleive in something then you will fall for anything.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:48 AM
link   
I think a lot of us get buried deep in detailed discussion we miss the simple truths. Thanks!



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 09:22 AM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God
I think a lot of us get buried deep in detailed discussion we miss the simple truths. Thanks!


No problem



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 09:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by they see ALL

see i was right (i think)...
i AM a Christian, but alotta people i know found out that Jesus didnt exist or was an alien and other crazy theories like this...
i want the truth or something close to it...
this is why i am doing this...



I checked your blog and see that you’re a teenager, not that there is anything wrong with that, and I had suspected it from the initial post, but it also tells me that you have not had the years to really research this out.

First THERE ARE RECORDS of Christ’s existence beyond the bible. Flavius Josephus the Jewish/Roman historian acknowledges his existence, there is also the documentation of his execution which was sent to Caesar from Pilate and is now in some museum in the UK. The Romans did keep record of such things, trials, executions, etc…


Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 18.3.3

Jesus Christ
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works-a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named for him, are not extinct at this day.


This is doubly insightful in the fact that Josephus was a Jew and many of the Jews of the day where out to discredit Jesus because he was a threat to their positions of power. Here is one on John the Baptist:


Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 18.5.2

John the Baptist

Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod’s army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist; for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to Baptism; for that washing with water would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away of some sins only, but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness. Now, when many others came in crowds about him, for they where greatly moved by hearing his words, Herod, who feared lest the great influence John had over the people might put it into his power and inclination to raise a rebellion , thought it best, by putting him to death, to prevent any mischief he might cause, and not bring himself into difficulties, by sparing a man who might make him repent of it when it should be too late. Accordingly he was sent a prisoner, out of Herod’s suspicious temper, to Macherus, the castle I before mentioned, and was there put to death. Now the Jews had an opinion that the destruction of this army was sent as a punishment upon Herod, and a mark of God’s displeasure against him.


As for the rest of the Bible:
A few other things that Josephus corroborated through the still existing ruins and ancient records where; the Deluge, the extended lifespan of early man, and the destruction of the five cities of the plains (Sodom, Gomorrah, Zoar, Admah, and Zeboiim). The neatest thing I find with Josephus is that he gives where some of his research came from, for example:


Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 1.3.6

Notes on the Great Flood

Now all the writers of barbarian history make mention of the flood and of this Ark; among whom is Berosus the Chaldean; for when he is describing the circumstances of the flood, he goes on thus:-”It is said there is still some part of the ship in Armenia, at the mountain of Cordyaeans; and that some people carry off the pieces of the bitumen, which they take away, and use chiefly as amulets for the averting of mischief’s.” Hieronymus the Egyptian, also, who wrote of Phoenician Antiquities, and Mnaseas, and a great many more, make mention of the same. Nay, Nicolaus of Damascus, in his ninety-sixth book, hath a particular relation about them, where he speaks thus:-”There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved; and that one who was carried in an Ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that that remains of the timber were a great while preserved. This might be the man about whom Moses, the legislator of the Jews wrote.”



There are some that believe this event was caused by an asteroid strike to the Middle Eastern Region. In 1694, Edmond Haley (as in Haley’s Comet), proposed a paper to the Royal Society, in which he felt that the Biblical flood was caused by a Comet collision in the Caspian Sea. This was later proposed also by mathematician William Whiston, a pupil of Sir Issac Newton, in 1708.



www.freerepublic.com...

satellite images of southern Iraq have revealed a two-mile-wide impact crater caused by a meteor
Studies of satellite images of southern Iraq have revealed a two-mile-wide circular depression which scientists say bears all the hallmarks of an impact crater. If confirmed, it would point to the Middle East being struck by a meteor with the violence equivalent to hundreds of nuclear bombs.
Today's crater lies on what would have been shallow sea 4,000 years ago, and any impact would have caused devastating fires and flooding.
The catastrophic effect of these could explain the mystery of why so many early cultures went into sudden decline around 2300 BC.




Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 1.3.9

Notes on the longer lifespan

Now when Noah had lived three hundred and fifty years after the flood, and that all that time happily, he died, having lived the number of nine hundred and fifty years: but let no one, upon comparing the lives of the ancients with our lives, and with the few years which we now live, think that what we have said of them is false; or make the shortness of our lives at present an argument the neither did they attain to so long a duration of life; for those ancients were beloved by God and made by God himself; and because their food was then fitter for the prolongation of life, might live so great a number of years; and besides God afforded them a longer time of life on account of their virtue and good use they made of it in astronomical and geometrical discoveries, which would not have afforded the time of foretelling unless they had lived six hundred years; for the Great Year is completed in that interval. Now I have witness to what I have said, all those that have written Antiquities, both among the Greeks and the Barbarians; for even Manetho, who wrote the Egyptian History, and Berosus, who collected the Chaldean Monuments, and Mochas and Hestiaeus, and besides these, Hieronymus the Egyptian, and those who composed the Phoenician History, agree to what I here say: Hesiod also, and Hecataeus, Hellanicus, and Acusilaus; and besides these, Ephorus and Nicolaus relate that the ancients lived a thousand years; but as to these matters let everyone look upon them as he thinks fit



Science is starting to find that there is truth to this as well, there are genes that act like toggle switches that seem to control the lifespan, check this:


www.infoaging.org...
Worms:
Caenorhabditis elegans, a roundworm with a normal 20-day life span, makes an ideal research subject. A single mutation in one of its genes, labeled age-1, increases its average life span by 65% and its maximal life span by 110%.



Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 1.11.4

On Sodom, Gomorrah, and the Cities of the Plain
God then cast a thunderbolt upon the city, and set it on fire, with its inhabitants; and laid waste the country with the like burning, as I formerly said when I wrote of the Jewish war. But Lot’s wife continually turning back to view the city as she went from it, and being to nicely inquisitive what would become of it, although God had forbidden her to do so, was changed into a pillar of salt; for I have seen it, and it remains to this day *.

* note: this is also attested to by Clement of Rome, and a century later by Irenaeus.


In 1924, William Foxwell Albright, and his team of archeologists found a city at the southern end of the Dead sea, they named it Bab edh-Dhra. Further excavations where conducted in the 1960’s and 1970’s. The walls of this city where 23 feet thick, and the cemetery contained close to half a million burials. There was obvious signs of the city having been destroyed by fire, such as spongy charcoal covering everything. This in itself was not to surprising, many old towns where destroyed by fire. Where the coincidences start to add up is that in 1975, Walter Rast and Thomas Schaub, found another city about seven miles south of the first one, that had been destroyed in a similar manner at around the same time, which they named Numeira. After continued search they found three more cities in a line heading southward, all destroyed at the same time, and all containing signs of being destroyed by fire. Another important note is that God cursed this area, and now this land that once was able to support five large cities, can hardly support any life whatsoever. Now a days most archeologist accept it as a fact these are the cities of the plain, Sodom and Gomorrah.


You will most likely never see these events connected anywhere else though, because there are those, like your friends that do not wish to believe them, and don’t want you to either. Why is that, because of what LastDay Prophet wrote, and exactly the attitude of riley, they wish to pursue their selfish lifestyles of personal pleasure. They cannot do this with those pesky Christians telling them it is not right, or that troublesome Bible thing. So they discredit it, its veracity, its historical accuracy, and question its translation.

Do I think that the Bible is fake, but full of great meaning?
Well, what do you think?

[edit on 11/16/2004 by defcon5]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 09:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by Killak420
We are all sheep and GOD is our Shepard and we must follow the sheapord into the path of rightousness. If we dont follow the shepard then we will go astray and then the wolf well kill us and devour our souls.
..etc

Remember if you dont beleive in something then you will fall for anything.

I don't understand this statement. Obviously if somone doesn't believe in god they're cynical so it's not in their personalities to just fall for anything.

I'm most definently not a sheep in need of a shepard.. I believe in myself enough to walk my own path. I also don't need a book to tell me right from wrong.

And I never trust a wolves in sheeps clothing..



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 10:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by defcon5


First THERE ARE RECORDS of Christ’s existence beyond the bible. Flavius Josephus the Jewish/Roman historian acknowledges his existence, there is also the documentation of his execution which was sent to Caesar from Pilate and is now in some museum in the UK. The Romans did keep record of such things, trials, executions, etc…


Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 18.3.3

Jesus Christ
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works-a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named for him, are not extinct at this day.


This is doubly insightful in the fact that Josephus was a Jew and many of the Jews of the day where out to discredit Jesus because he was a threat to their positions of power. Here is one on John the Baptist:




Maybe because Flavius switched sides, and was deemed a traitor, that he jumped on the Christian bandwagon. His historicall views are hardly credible.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 10:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by defcon5
You will most likely never see these events connected anywhere else though, because there are those, like your friends that do not wish to believe them, and don’t want you to either. Why is that, because of what LastDay Prophet wrote, and exactly the attitude of riley, they wish to pursue their selfish lifestyles of personal pleasure.

Exuse me.. but seeing you know me so well.. could you please tell me what is so selfish about my lifestyle and let me know all about all about these personal pleasures I indulge in? Fornication? Drug use? Robbery? Sacrificing small animals? I'm curious. How do you say kiss my arse in Christian?

They cannot do this with those pesky Christians telling them it is not right, or that troublesome Bible thing.

No.. true christians I have absolutley no problem with. Their endevour is to try and emulate Jesus himself and therefore they don't judge and condemn others, they are unnasuming and compassionate.. the ones that don't fit into that category are called creepy christians.. not pesky.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by riley]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 10:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by nathraq

Maybe because Flavius switched sides, and was deemed a traitor, that he jumped on the Christian bandwagon. His historicall views are hardly credible.



Do you mean that he switched sides from being a Jew to a Christian, or he went to live in Rome?

Either way I have never seen his historical documents brought into question. He had the favor of the Roman Emperor, hence the title Flavius, and the access and convenience that this would bring to any researcher. Access to the library at news.bbc.co.uk..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Alexandria, to the best and oldest documents, access to other historians of his time.


nathraq show me one iota of credible information to back up your accusation, I gave chapter and verse to back up my stance.
Sorry, I'll not scratch your itching ears, youl'll hear truth from me.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 10:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by riley
Exuse me.. but seeing you know me so well.. could you please tell me what is so selfish about my lifestyle and let me know all about all about these personal pleasures I indulge in?



“exactly the attitude of riley, they wish to pursue their selfish lifestyles of personal pleasure.”

I get this from your own words on this thread……



Originally posted by riley
Think I'll just follow my own judgments and get 'rewarded' while I'm still alive



Originally posted by riley
I read this and all I see is "You've been bad and are going to burn in hell if you don't do as you're told." Being a good person shouldn't be dependent on fear of 'god', guilt or punnishment.. it should come from within. Encouraging repression and submission [more old testimant] only causes people to become frustrated, bitter, resentful and angry.



Originally posted by riley
Could you please keep your violent vengeful hopes of what your god will do to non believers to yourself.. this is why the world is so f%cked up right now.. if you want to have the option of going to 'hell'.. thats fine.. just don't drag others down with you.



Originally posted by riley
who the hell wants to wait for death to achieve heaven? I want to have a wonderful existence now. Whats the point of life if you are counting on your own death to bring meaning to it? Thats warped. What about the life in between? Do people just waste it on a maybe there's a better place? It's such a shame. It seems ungrateful to neglect living life to the fullest by inhibiting oneself 'just in case' hell exists.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by riley
Exuse me.. but seeing you know me so well.. could you please tell me what is so selfish about my lifestyle and let me know all about all about these personal pleasures I indulge in?



“exactly the attitude of riley, they wish to pursue their selfish lifestyles of personal pleasure.”

I get this from your own words on this thread……



Originally posted by riley
Think I'll just follow my own judgments and get 'rewarded' while I'm still alive


So you think people should suffer and repent their entire lives rather than trying to make their worlds as close to heaven as possible? That includes everyone in my world.. not just me so it's not a personal pleasure [though I'm quite certain you were inferring other things about me in order to discreit me]. I also think forcing other people to believe what they don't is selfish [ie holy wars].


Originally posted by riley
I read this and all I see is "You've been bad and are going to burn in hell if you don't do as you're told." Being a good person shouldn't be dependent on fear of 'god', guilt or punnishment.. it should come from within. Encouraging repression and submission [more old testimant] only causes people to become frustrated, bitter, resentful and angry.


Whats wrong with this philosophy? I follow my own conscience. If a book told you flying was a sin would you cage a wild bird and deny it it's freedom?


Originally posted by riley
Could you please keep your violent vengeful hopes of what your god will do to non believers to yourself.. this is why the world is so f%cked up right now.. if you want to have the option of going to 'hell'.. thats fine.. just don't drag others down with you.


If you hadn't noticed we are on the verge of a holy war. Both sides condemning the other to eternal hell/ lake of fire. Hardly a positive thing for humanity.


Originally posted by riley
who the hell wants to wait for death to achieve heaven? I want to have a wonderful existence now. Whats the point of life if you are counting on your own death to bring meaning to it? Thats warped. What about the life in between? Do people just waste it on a maybe there's a better place? It's such a shame. It seems ungrateful to neglect living life to the fullest by inhibiting oneself 'just in case' hell exists.


I still don't see how any of my posts reveal anything about my lifestyle or tells you anything about my personal pleasure... and what is wrong with wanting to have a wonderful life? I don't set out to harm others or myself.. I can't say the same for Christianity.

[edit for spelling]

[edit on 16-11-2004 by riley]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:31 AM
link   
This is what Nathraq has found:

Josephus was a priest, a soldier, and a scholar.

He was born Joseph ben Mattathias in Jerusalem in 37 CE, a few years after the time of Jesus, during the time of the Roman occupation of the Jewish homeland. In his early twenties he was sent to Rome to negotiate the release of several priests held hostage by Emperor Nero. When he returned home after completing his mission he found the nation beginning a revolution against the Romans.

Despite his foreboding that the cause was hopeless, he was drafted into becoming commander of the revolutionary forces in Galilee, where he spent more time controlling internal factions than fighting the Roman army. When the city of Jotapata he was defending fell to the Roman general Vespasian, Josephus and his supporters hid in a cave and entered into a suicide pact, which Josephus oddly survived.

Taken prisoner by Vespasian, Josephus presented himself as a prophet. Noting that the war had been propelled by an ancient oracle that foretold a world ruler would arise from Judaea, Josephus asserted that this referred to Vespasian, who was destined to become Emperor of Rome. Intrigued, Vespasian spared his life. When this prophecy came true, and Vespasian became Emperor, he rewarded Josephus handsomely, freeing him from his chains and eventually adopting him into his family, the Flavians. Josephus thus became Flavius Josephus.

During the remainder of the war, Josephus assisted the Roman commander Titus, Vespasian's son, with understanding the Jewish nation and in negotiating with the revolutionaries. Called a traitor, he was unable to persuade the defenders of Jerusalem to surrender to the Roman siege, and instead became a witness to the destruction of the city and the Holy Temple.

Living at the Flavian court in Rome, Josephus undertook to write a history of the war he had witnessed. The work, while apparently factually correct, also served to flatter his patron and to warn other provinces against the folly of opposing the Romans. He first wrote in his native language of Aramaic, then with assistance translated it into Greek (the most-used language of the Empire). It was published a few years after the end of the war, in about 78 CE. He was about 40 years old.

Josephus subsequently improved his language skills and undertook a massive work in Greek explaining the history of the Jews to the general non-Jewish audience. He emphasized that the Jewish culture and Bible were older than any other then existing, hence called his work the Jewish Antiquities. Approximately half the work is a rephrasing of the Hebrew Bible, while much of the rest draws on previous historians. This work was published in 93 or 94 CE, when he was about 56 years old.

Josephus wrote at least two smaller books, including his autobiography, in which he recounts his life from birth until the writing of the Antiquities. The year he died is unknown.

This is what Nathraq gathers from this small biography:

a) Flavius was born a jew( Joseph ben Matthius), and was a revolutionary against Roman occupation. He entered a 'do or die' pact with a few fellow revolutionaries. They all died, as he 'miraculously' survived( probably ratting out a few friends).

b) He passed himself off as a prophet ( in another attempt to save his hide). His first prediction: Vespasian is to become Emperor (maybe because he was the strongest of contenders?). When, by a stroke of luck, ( or becuase everyone knew Vespie would be Emperor anyways), Vespie became Emperor. He rewarded Josephus by letting him go free. Joseph adopted Vespasian's name, and became Flavius Josephus. Flavius is not a title.

c) He jumped on the Christian bandwagon, by calling Jewish culture, and the Christian Bible ( I didn't know there was a bible at that time period), older than any other existing cultures or beliefs. Maybe he did this to help appease the growing problems between Jews/Romans/Christians.

To summarize: Flavius, or so it seems, was a ex-revolutionary, who got cold feet. He let his fellow fighters perish, while he conned his way to a limited amount of prestige among the Romans. He watched Jerusalem and the Holy Temple burn, while he lived phat in Vespasians court. He was an ancient Muenchausen .

That's what Nathraq Thinks.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Killak420
We are all sheep and GOD is our Shepard and we must follow the sheapord into the path of rightousness. If we dont follow the shepard then we will go astray and then the wolf well kill us and devour our souls.
..etc

Remember if you dont beleive in something then you will fall for anything.

I don't understand this statement. Obviously if somone doesn't believe in god they're cynical so it's not in their personalities to just fall for anything.

I'm most definently not a sheep in need of a shepard.. I believe in myself enough to walk my own path. I also don't need a book to tell me right from wrong.

And I never trust a wolves in sheeps clothing..


What do you beleive in?

Every one is in need of a shepard you probably just found it somewhere else. The bible is not the only tool you can use for guidence and wisdom.
And I agree with you on the not trusting a wolve in sheeps clothing but you should always respect and love those sheep in wolves clothing(love thy enemy).



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 11:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by riley
So you think people should suffer and repent their entire lives rather than trying to make their worlds as close to heaven as possible?


You don’t have to suffer to repent do you? If you consider following God’s word or Law suffering, then you only further push my point. I actually enjoy reading God’s word, and studying not only it, but other things that are connected to it. That does not sound like suffering to me. This is the point of life in my book:



Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.



Originally posted by riley
That includes everyone in my world.. not just me so it's a personal pleasure [though I'm quite certain you were inferring other things about me in order to discreit me]. I also think forcing other people to believe what they don't is selfish [ie holy wars].


I was not stating anything to discredit you, no offence I do not consider anything you have said to have enough grounds in any fact to be worth discrediting. It’s simply your opinion, and there is no way to back that up one way or the other. I was simply stating that this was your stance in regards to Earthly Pleasure, that you should attain Heaven here on Earth.

Ps: there is a religion that states exactly the same doctrine that you stated here, but you are not going to like what it is called.


www.satanism101.com...
Since Satanism is essentially a religion of the self, it holds that the individual and his personal needs comes first


I am not, nor can I, force you to believe anything, you either take it or leave it.


Originally posted by riley
Whats wrong with this philosophy? I follow my own conscience….

I still don't see how any of my posts reveal anything about my lifestyle or tell you anything about my personal pleasure... and what is wrong with wanting to have a wonderful life? I don't set out to harm others or myself.. I can't say the same for Christianity.


Again refer to the quote and link above. According to the Bible, in the end times men will be mainly guilty of worshiping false gods. The god that they will be worshipping is themselves…



2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


This is what is fundamentally wrong with your philosophy. As to your last question, I have no idea what you engage in, you simply stated that you where all about Heaven here and now, instant gratification.

Now I have shown you what is wrong with that philosophy from a Christian perspective, it was not a personal attack, so lets leave it at that.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 12:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nathraq

This is what Nathraq gathers from this small biography:

a) Flavius was born a jew( Joseph ben Matthius), and was a revolutionary against Roman occupation. He entered a 'do or die' pact with a few fellow revolutionaries. They all died, as he 'miraculously' survived( probably ratting out a few friends).

b) He passed himself off as a prophet ( in another attempt to save his hide). His first prediction: Vespasian is to become Emperor (maybe because he was the strongest of contenders?). When, by a stroke of luck, ( or becuase everyone knew Vespie would be Emperor anyways), Vespie became Emperor. He rewarded Josephus by letting him go free. Joseph adopted Vespasian's name, and became Flavius Josephus. Flavius is not a title.

c) He jumped on the Christian bandwagon, by calling Jewish culture, and the Christian Bible ( I didn't know there was a bible at that time period), older than any other existing cultures or beliefs. Maybe he did this to help appease the growing problems between Jews/Romans/Christians.

To summarize: Flavius, or so it seems, was a ex-revolutionary, who got cold feet. He let his fellow fighters perish, while he conned his way to a limited amount of prestige among the Romans. He watched Jerusalem and the Holy Temple burn, while he lived phat in Vespasians court. He was an ancient Muenchausen .


Well, first off, I am sitting here with his complete works, and hand typed the quotes above, I did not just pull my information off some site on the internet.
Now, besides the little digs that you have added to your summery, there are also some errors, and ONE IMPORTANT FACT that you hid in there.
I’ll repost that first since it is really the only part that matters in relation to my above post.


Originally posted by Nathraq

The work, while apparently factually correct



First he was born into a family that was not only nobility, but also priests. He himself became a priest. He tried to discourage his sect from rebelling against the Romans, because he knew they could not win, and it would lead to the destruction of his country, but was forced to join the rebellion.

He had been to Rome at age 26, before the rebellion and was already friends with the Poppea, Nero’s wife. That is why he was taken as a captive back to Rome after that failure of the rebellion, and was not crucified with many of the rebels.

As far as his prediction, it was made two years prior to its coming true.

Ok, I guess that Flavius is not a title, it’s a family name.
Flavian dynasty - a dynasty of Roman emperors from 69 to 96 including Vespasian and his sons Titus and Domitian

To my knowledge Josephus never became a Christian, and remained a Jew his entire life. If he had become a follower of Christ, I am sure he would have written more about him.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 01:16 PM
link   
Thanks for the intelligent debate, Def Con5. At least no name calling


As for my resources, I can only take info off the net, as I have not seen the actual documents with my own 2 eyes. These are the resources I checked:

www.earlychristianwritings.com...

I am just wary that a man, who arbitrarily abandoned his people to join the Romans, and who passed himself off as a prophet, deserves the credibility some people think he has. Even scholars argue the validity of his writings. Using him as a source is questionable.

peace.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 01:38 PM
link   

Thanks for the intelligent debate, Def Con5. At least no name calling


Yes, same here…


I have never seen where his credibility was called into question, if you can find this I would be interested in reading it. I often see him quoted by historians, that is the reason I ever read his works to begin with.

I will check the link that you have posted, I have come across several versions that seem to differ from the hard copy I have. It could be translation errors, or bad typing. it’s a really LONG book, about 1200 pages and footnotes on top of that, it would be a big job to put that on the net, and is most likely going to be full of errors.



One more thing, in reading his biography I never concluded that he abandoned his people, but rather that he tried to fight with them, but they where just fighting unreasonable odds. He went to Rome as a prisoner, and rather then die, he used this as a chance to pursue his scholarship, and to explain his people to the Greeks, and Romans, hence his writing of the Antiquities of the Jews.

[edit on 11/16/2004 by defcon5]




top topics



 
0
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join