ALL MEMBERS: We may be launching ATS.5/3 today.

Many who so called " bitched" had " genuine" problems/issues with the layout.

Yes it does take a little while to adapt and navigate.

But this trivialisation of peoples experience on a website is also over looking the basic fact that people experience things very differently.

I can adapt to change I am not a " stuck in the mud" and a miserable person who doesn't want to see improvements of course I do.

With emphasis on improvements. And not just flash...!

Originally posted by alfa1

Invalid argument.
Much like the "they laughed at Galileo" argument, you cannot simply say that:
- some people complained about some changes 3 years ago
- therefore
- any arguments that ANYONE has today about these changes are invalid

Whether you like it or not, it is perfectly valid to complain about this specific set of issues on this specific date for these specific reasons.

I would argue the above is an invalid argument based upon the following:

1) Privately owned sight that provides a free service to all of us.
2) ATS is always mindful of member input and, over the coming weeks and months I can promise you that we will see tweaking and adjusting being done to address any an all issues and good ideas that members bring forward.
3) Galileo was right.

How about making the default colors the dark side, this will solve the 'bleeding eye' problem.

snrRog

reply to post by Hefficide


AND Galileo made a good cheap wine!

(With some guy named Ernest)

This is like the perfect experiment to see how people deal with change. Interesting to read the replies so far.

For me it worked fine on my iPad and iPhone. Just the glitch with the grey bar. I didn't get the big letters or brightness problem so many are talking about. All my text was regular size. Maybe Ill pull out the MacBook when it comes back online or go into the testing site if its still up and running. Love the new emotions. Modern and probably use up less space - gets the point across.

No one here is losing money (having to do a trade online or win a bid), not to mention it's a free site. Yet there were some really strongly worded responses. I was expecting to hear peoples likes and constructive critisism; glitches and questions but some were outright mean. Even if there are problems it's not the end of the world - being outright rude just portrays a lack of gratitide for the effort that has gone into this. As a long time reader and newer member I was surprised.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Traffic is dipping and new membership is falling because we've not kept pace with the contemporary design aesthetic.

Wait just a second. Didn't you tell me a month or so ago that traffic was not dropping?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

In any case I wouldn't be so sure that aesthetics have much to do with it.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Its not broken, so dont fix it.

So your direct experience in modern online design is... what?

My point ever since beginning redesign discussions more than a year ago is that...

IT IS BROKEN

I really like the new design and I'll be happy to have it back permanently. Some things will take getting used to but I find it pretty user friendly or almost intuitive so I'm sure it won't be hard.

I think it was nice to add the option for a light or dark theme too. I like both themes for different reasons but I do think the dark is slightly easier on the eyes and I think it stands out a bit more.

reply to post by beezzer




Best wine ever poured into a bladder inside of a box IMO.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
The old version, from the users perspective, was almost perfect

No.


IT IS BROKEN!



I have access to data on the way people -- mostly new users -- use the site, you and other members do not.

There has been both a distinct downward trend in the number of pages new users visit, in addition to a distinct upwards trend in mobile access.

Anyone who claims ownership over the usability of any website must react when such data is presented.


and now that I have data from the few hours the new site was running...
New visitors looked at an average of 4.3 thread pages (content) as opposed to 2.7 in the current design.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Well I would think that if the current color scheme is a tried and true, and well accepted success, changing it the least possible might be a consideration.

That's just it. As I've said countless of times in related topics/issues about an ATS redesign, we are dated and tired. Traffic is dipping and new membership is falling because we've not kept pace with the contemporary design aesthetic.

At the risk of sounding like a goober, why not just have skins available like a BB board offers? I'm not saying turn into one of those boards, but give people the option of remaining with the current scheme, or going to the white or grey schemes instead of just white or grey? I'm not 100% wild about the grey scheme myself, but I could learn to live with it if I had to, but if given a skin/theme option of Current ATS Dark, i would not change it. I imagine I wouldn't be alone there, either. I rather like the current overall layout, the av & icon sizes, and especially the font contrast, and the post box contrast in threads. It's simply more streamlined, and doesn't all bleed together like 5/3 does. That is not to say I don't like 5/3, I do to a point.

Like I said, I'll deal with what we're given, but I don't see why there can't be option to stay with the current scheme.

Originally posted by Nyiah
At the risk of sounding like a goober, why not just have skins available like a BB board offers?

Amateur hour.

The "discussion board" is dead. I've always tried to push the format into something else. I'm not doing this in an uninformed bubble.

OK yes I too got that lite grey and huge font. Then it froze. If it helps. I'm using an HP touch pad running android. Seems to run fast with out issues now. It's pretty much me that needs to figure the rest. It's now partially showing link YouTube quotes and links. Wow that was fast it's showing Center IMAGE EX-TEXT

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by VoidHawk
The old version, from the users perspective, was almost perfect

No.


IT IS BROKEN!



I have access to data on the way people -- mostly new users -- use the site, you and other members do not.

There has been both a distinct downward trend in the number of pages new users visit, in addition to a distinct upwards trend in mobile access.

Anyone who claims ownership over the usability of any website must react when such data is presented.


and now that I have data from the few hours the new site was running...
New visitors looked at an average of 4.3 thread pages (content) as opposed to 2.7 in the current design.

So making it look like a childrens web site is going to what? Bring in more children?

Why not at least provide several user chosen themes that we can switch on our profile settings or something.
First you destroyed the Firehose page. I always had my browser open on that page and I checked it hourly, but I dealt with the loss.

This new theme? Sorry, I will not adapt to it no matter how long it stays.
On the bright side, maybe my pre-teen daughters will enjoy this place now, cause it looks like it's more suited to them.

When I first visited this forum few years, I didn't really like it. Then I got used to it.

The new look may work better for attracting new users to this forum. As long the icons are dark, and the borders are dark, the content itself can be lighter/grayer What I didn't like the one launched was everything was gray, even borders.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Its not broken, so dont fix it.

So your direct experience in modern online design is... what?

My point ever since beginning redesign discussions more than a year ago is that...

IT IS BROKEN

I can only speak for myself, as I've been in the web design field since NCSA Mosaic 0.9. Design trends come and go, like the fashion industry. I've done cross-browser, and cross plaform web development,first hand, and I know that trying to force a change of this magnitude as a single solution for both a mobile/tablet and desktop/laptop platform is almost impossible. The platforms are worlds apart, with very different hardware and form factors.

I think by changing to cater to the mobile/tablet crowd, you may be sacrificing the desktop/laptop crowd. Visitor views are great, but the true test is what platform is providing the most content to the site. Page views are great, but if the pages and content lack, then page views quickly follow that downward spiral.

S.O. I wish you luck in the challenge, but I truly hope you do not sacrifice the content creator platform to build page views. I fear you will get neither in the long run.

All my hopes go with you....I know I would like to stay and contribute.....from a desktop/laptop platform, I do not browse from a mobile platform, the screen size and underlying hardware is just too limiting for my tastes.

Men are only as good as their technical development allows them to be. ~ George Orwell

I'm ready for change.

Nuff said.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Nyiah
At the risk of sounding like a goober, why not just have skins available like a BB board offers?

Amateur hour.

The "discussion board" is dead. I've always tried to push the format into something else. I'm not doing this in an uninformed bubble.

With all due respect, I'm not sure I understand You have a light and a dark option for preference selection, why would a Black ATS third choice be out of the question?

I understand you're taking a lot of flak and under stress & pressure and such. I'm not trying to jump down your throat or anything, I'm just trying to understand why keeping an option for Black ATS is out of the question.

reply to post by Bigburgh


It appears to me that something that I think is highly likely to be true . . . has escaped the average user gritching about the changes and wanting the old way to be an option . . .

AS I UNDERSTAND IT

1. The new design is a foundation up redesign.

2. The new design is tailor made to be mobile devices friendly without leaving the desk top folks in the dust or cellar.

3. More current design esthetics obviously more attractive to new users--see SO's cited stats--are an important goal worth the labor and expense.

4. It is unrealistic to ask that the old design be an option. It's not as easy as installing a toggle switch. Given that the new design is a re-do from the ground up--the old design would have to be coded, married to, worked up from the same new foundation. Why re-invent the wheel--an old wheel that new users have clearly shown a distaste for?

my main annoyance
[color=6699FF]is that when I hit refresh, I almost 100% of the time have to RESCROLL TO THE BOTTOM. That seems like a real time consuming bother over a year's worth of time and one that should be relatively easy to fix. It seems really archaic and stodgy compared to most sites, imho. That kind of klutziness would likely contribute as much to new user distaste and annoyance as old fashioned graphic etc. design features. imho.
.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


No, there isn't. You hate change, get past it and rejoice in the functionality and brilliance. Seriously.

I am willing to bet 1 U.S. Dollar(a real one - wait- is there a real one left?) that in a month you are posting away oblivious to this upgrade.