If Christianity was a Hoax .....

reply to post by jiggerj


But you do believe He existed. Thanks for your opinion.


reply to post by windword


Well, thank you for that. Doesn't really help your argument.
It'll take more than an atheists' opinion to negate a personal experience, and the knowledge of the Truth, that came from it.

Here's someone else opinion.


Oh the ego of man. Pride can be a bi$%#.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince you of anything...couldn't even if I wanted to.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Is the Christian GOD is the same as the Old Testament GOD?

gracethrufaith.com...

Why dont you go learn how the Old Covenant and New Covenant are related and come talk to me I am sad that you left my other threads I guess prophecy is to hard for you counter

reply to post by windword


pleaseconvinceme.com...

Sources outside the Bible, and it has Josephus in here if you don't accept it ok, and who cares if they arent outside the Bible why dont you look at the manuscript evidence for the new testament as compared to all the writings you pull your History from.

carm.org...

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by greavsie1971

 

If the worm had 66 books written about it by various people over centuries, it would be a very special worm indeed. If we just had your word for it, I would say you were a liar.

Okay, I'll hire people to author 66 books on the accounts of others that have had experiences with the glow worm. Books are not proof of anything. Even a book on scientific formulas doesn't prove anything. The proof only comes when we use those formulas and find that they are true and actually work. This doesn't happen with the bible. It's proof is a statement that is clarified in another section of the bible. This is not proof - it's a fictional story where the characters and events are weaved throughout the whole book, and cannot be verified anywhere outside of the book.

Has the worm prophesied and had those prophecies come true?

Originally posted by StaceyWilson
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Because of Catholic Priests ...was happening in Europe ..um actually Worldwide..but what would you do if you found out your chosen belief was false ? Pick a letter..
and why..

Regardless of what anybody tries to say, the Catholic Church is not a Christian church. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes unto the Father but by Him. Praying to idols and dead people is a big no-no.

Has the worm prophesied and had those prophecies come true?

reply to post by greavsie1971


Yes! In the first part of the book the Glow Worm predicted that the face on the moon will wink at the earth. And sure enough, in the middle part of the book it is written that people witnessed the moon winking at them 4027 years later. The book proves the prophecy! go Go GO GLOW WORM!

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

Why dont you go learn how the Old Covenant and New Covenant are related and come talk to me I am sad that you left my other threads I guess prophecy is to hard for you counter

Not really!

Failed biblical prophecies

The Failure of Daniel's Prophecies

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Why dont you go learn how the Old Covenant and New Covenant are related and come talk to me I am sad that you left my other threads I guess prophecy is to hard for you counter

Not really!

Failed biblical prophecies

The Failure of Daniel's Prophecies

I have already explained most of those, and rationalwiki doesn't even site there sources for that info cause its bogus

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

Joshua 3
10 Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girga#es, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.

Joshua 15
63 As for the Jebusites the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah could not drive them out; but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem unto this day.

Without fail? Hardly. Why would god say he'd drive them out "without fail" and then fail to do so?

reply to post by slowisfast


That guy is funny, and quite a character. Very entertaining! It's unfortunate that a scholar of history is either ignorant of pertinent history, or he's being intellectually dishonest.

The fact that the story of Jesus was set in an historic time, with real people, such as John the Baptist, Pilot and Caliphus, doesn't prove that the New Testament's account of Jesus isn't historic fiction.

Now, the writings of Josephus on Jesus have been rejected by the majority of Biblical scholars as interpolation inserted decades later by a zealous Christian, Eusebius.

As for Tacticus and Pliney, these are mistranslations. The fact of the matter is, the first century followers of Jesus were not called Christians. The term "Christian", a Greek construct, was already being used by pagans; Initiates in the mystery religions.

If modern believers were truly sincere in their desire for a more intimate relationship with the Lord, they would immediately want to know and question why "early believers avoided" using the name Christian? When it is realized that even the very name Christian was in use prior to the time of Jesus, we truly begin to grasp the Pagan connection. The name Christian was a term employed to describe one who was an initiate, and understood the inner meaning of the Greek and Roman mystery religions. Thus, the early followers of Jesus refused to be called Christian, and call Jesus the Christ, because the word was used in reference to enlightened Pagans and their gods.
nazirene.org...

Early Christians were actually called "Nazarenes".

Acts 24:5
For we have found this man a plague, a creator of dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.

So any first or early second century reference to "Christians" is referring to a pagan group, not the followers of Jesus. Jesus wouldn't be called the "Jesus Christ" until the Greek Koine scriptures were written in the second century.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by StaceyWilson

 

If Christianity was a hoax in what regard? There are many levels of Christianity. Perhaps Jesus didn't exist. Does that make the core teachings less valuable. No.

Perhaps Jesus wasn't really born of a virgin. Does that make his teachings less profound? No

Maybe he survived the crucifixion, and went to India, the Americas or even France, does make his life invalid? Nope.

Perhaps the biblical character of Jesus wasn't the Christ spirit in total. Does that mean that the earth doesn't have a guardian spirit, or an oversoul representing the essence of mankind to the "Elohim"? Nope.

90% of Christianity is valid without extreme mythology and apologetics, in my opinion. It would just manifest itself as more Taoist or Buddhist like, in my opinion.

edit on 30-8-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

If Christ be not raise, our faith is in vain.

I appreciate the sentiments in this post, but if Christ isn't the true and only Son of God, then you might be able to say He helped the world, but He can't save it. That is the point of our faith, our religion (though I dislike that term).

I would ask the OP, if it wasn't a hoax, would you be willing to follow Him?

reply to post by MRSeeker

I appreciate the sentiments in this post, but if Christ isn't the true and only Son of God, then you might be able to say He helped the wo

But Jesus hasn't saved the world. Look around. Perhaps he saved your soul from hell, but Biblically speaking, the "saved" are far and few between, and most earthly souls are destined to hell.

reply to post by windword


Believe what you will, brother, it's your life.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Joshua 3
10 Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girga#es, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.

Joshua 15
63 As for the Jebusites the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah could not drive them out; but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem unto this day.

Without fail? Hardly. Why would god say he'd drive them out "without fail" and then fail to do so?

edit on 1-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Yea already explain this one to you in another thread that you quit responding in. God did not lack the ability his people lacked the faith. That is the short version

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MRSeeker

 

I appreciate the sentiments in this post, but if Christ isn't the true and only Son of God, then you might be able to say He helped the wo

But Jesus hasn't saved the world. Look around. Perhaps he saved your soul from hell, but Biblically speaking, the "saved" are far and few between, and most earthly souls are destined to hell.

Jesus did save the world. He died to give people a pardon. It is a persons choice to accept that pardon or not. The pardon is a free gift of god Ephesians 2:8-9 and is available at any point in time until the end of the tribulation. So it's not that Jesus didn't save the world it's that some choose not to be saved.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

Jesus did save the world.

No, Jesus didn't save the world. Jesus didn't care about this world.

Luke 14:26
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

He died to give people a pardon.

Maybe Jesus offers personal salvation to some, but there are contingencies.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

It is a persons choice to accept that pardon or not. The pardon is a free gift of god Ephesians 2:8-9 and is available at any point in time until the end of the tribulation. So it's not that Jesus didn't save the world it's that some choose not to be saved.

Really?

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned."

Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old, ordained to this condemnation."

Romans 8:29-30
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


I must have missed it, sorry.

If god knows everything beforehand and he says that he will remove them "without fail", then he KNEW that he wouldn't fail at it, because he saw and said so beforehand. So.... why did he fail at it? Did he not foresee his failure at removing them like he said he would? I thought whatever god predicts is set in stone?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Jesus did save the world.

No, Jesus didn't save the world. Jesus didn't care about this world.

Luke 14:26
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

He died to give people a pardon.

Maybe Jesus offers personal salvation to some, but there are contingencies.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

It is a persons choice to accept that pardon or not. The pardon is a free gift of god Ephesians 2:8-9 and is available at any point in time until the end of the tribulation. So it's not that Jesus didn't save the world it's that some choose not to be saved.

Really?

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned."

Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old, ordained to this condemnation."

Romans 8:29-30
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Um the first verse is Jesus saying that he is king of heaven and you misquoted your reference, and says no where in it that Jesus didn't care about this world.

Matthew 19:16-24
Proves the very point you said it disproves lets take it two verses farther and see

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

The purpose of this story was to show people that it doesn't matter how many works you preform you will always fall short of God. Jesus told the man if he wanted to be perfect to follow him, because Jesus is the way the truth and the life. John 6:28-29 again shows that all you have to do is accept Jesus's pardon. In John Jesus never had a clearer opportunity to lay out what was required to get into heaven, and all he says is believe in the one he has sent so again you just pulled this verse from context. I can explain the others but i ran out of space so unless you really cant understand how you got it wrong Id like to save the time

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

I can explain the others but i ran out of space so unless you really cant understand how you got it wrong Id like to save the time

You ran out of space because you quoted my entire post. Why? I know what I wrote.

Why did you ignore the scriptures about predestination and GOD making people believe lies?

Jesus has lots of contingencies in regards to the salvation he offered. Jesus said that YOU must forgive others first, in order for "GOD" to forgive YOU.

Jesus said that you have to hate your family and loved ones and yourself or you can not follow him. He said that you must give up riches, and that "rich a man will hardly make it to heaven".

According to Jesus, salvation requires works.

According to the Bible, Revelation, Jesus isn't coming back to save the world, he's coming back to destroy it, and then create a new world.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


When Jesus said to follow him, he didn't mean it in the way you assume. Jesus saying to follow him was referring to what he said directly before that. To follow Jesus is to give up any Earthly riches and to live a meek and humble life.

Matthew 5
5 God blesses those who are humble, for they will inherit the whole earth.

Matthew 19
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

You are the one taking it out of context and imposing your own. Jesus taught salvation through works, which is why he told the man to follow the commandments.