If God created us, then why didn't he give us a perfect eye?

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posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
They do not use it as evidence the way you claim. It is used as evidence as they claim they eye could not have evolved, it could only come about through creation.


Wow, really?

How utterly sad.

How the eye evolved is amazing. Not magic.

This is what happens when people purposely remain ignorant. I just wish they would do it in silence and stop trying to drag everyone else along with them.




posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by danielsil18
 


Newts (aquatic amphibians) can regenerate limbs, eyes, spinal cords, and hearts, yet humans do not possess this ability. For whatever reason, God decided not to equip us with this ability, but instead gave us the mental faculties necessary to worship Him.

God indulging Himself in the reverence of His worshipers > an individual's bodily well-being

I guess having your eyes gouged out is fine, since you'll still be able to worship Him! Some competent designer...
edit on 8/30/2013 by Nacirema because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
Well I wouldn't stop with the eye. Really if I had omnipotent power and designed what would be called a perfect creature or even close here are 5 things that would change everything.

1 Self-replenishing teeth like Crocodiles or sharks.
2 An internal compass like homing pigeons or sea turtles.
3 Limb regeneration like lizards/salamanders.
4 Near immortality like Turritopsis nutricula, the immortal jellyfish however the reproductive system would at the very least would need to be intentional for fear of over population. We already have a problem in that department.
5 Sonar like dolphin and bats.

Those are things other creatures in the world already have.

It has also been theorized that some creatures pass on information genetically imagine being borne with all the knowledge of your parents and parents parents....... Then I would make it to where all these things were not a problem for us.

But what do I know I don't believe in God if there is such a thing it has a weird plan.
edit on 29-8-2013 by Grimpachi because:



A perfect being would not require sustinence.
A perfect being would not have predators.
A perfect being would not need to go anywhere.
A perfect being would just be.

Maybe that is why this god made us so faulty.. so that we have to get off our arse and discover it all... but then, I think that implies a less than perfect creator. In fact, more a bored child playing sims.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
They do not use it as evidence the way you claim. It is used as evidence as they claim they eye could not have evolved, it could only come about through creation.


Wow, really?

How utterly sad.

How the eye evolved is amazing. Not magic.

This is what happens when people purposely remain ignorant. I just wish they would do it in silence and stop trying to drag everyone else along with them.


Whether they are right or wrong about they eye being irreducibly complex is another post. This post is claiming it's used as an example of perfection, which it is not, at all.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





That is exactly what I said, and what I explained in my opening post. They use the eye's complexity (not perfection) as an example of something evolution can not explain (it's called irreducible complexity). So you admit you took two separate ideas and combined them into one idea that is never espoused by Christians? I am glad you admit it.

So go back and look at my first post where I explained what "perfect" means.


You still dont get it and are going in circles too many times. I'll put the part in italic so you don't miss it again. I don't blame you because it might be your blind spot. Many christians say that our eyes are so complex and perfect that it had to have a creator. They are saying it's complex and perfect. But our eyes are not perfect. Perfection shouldn't have faults. It's like a painting having a red X while the other one doesn't.

I'll say it again so you dont miss it. Many christians use the complexity and the perfection of the eye as evidence for god.

EDIT: I would also like to add that you can't speak for all christians. You are trying to put all christians into your own bubble of thought as if they all agree with you. I talked to many christians who said the eye was perfect and that it had to have a creator because of it.



Play Devil's Advocate for a moment, assume the Bible is true, can you think of any reason? When you do so, I will give you an answer. If you tell me you can't think of one then you only confirm you are not here for answers and could not care less. You have your mind made up and are simply wanting to lord something over Christians, which you fail to recognize shows your ignorance, not theirs.


Did you really think I came here to be converted or accept anyone's answer?

I came here to see what kind of answers i would get.

I welcome all answers because i learn more from them, but I don't ask to be converted nor I accept anyone's answer, I research and study to get to my own answers.
edit on 30-8-2013 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by danielsil18
 


eyes? Yes..


But the most obvious is ---- foreskin?

so, its there JUST to be snipped?



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Fair call!

All I know these days is that my eyes are bad. It's all down hill from here for me.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by HanzHenry
reply to post by danielsil18
 


eyes? Yes..


But the most obvious is ---- foreskin?

so, its there JUST to be snipped?


Why stop there, go for ear lobes also. I'm sure if god had told people to cut off their kids ears, we'd have some pseudo scientific study today to prove that ear lobes are in fact disgusting germ harboring lumps that cause ear aches and aids.

Or maybe some guys are just convincing themselves... "Yeah I have too much penis. Good thing they cut some of it off me as a baby."

still, circumcision is not the sole domain of religion. other backward cultures also mutilate babies.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by danielsil18
 





Im asking one thing at a time so i can have answers to all my questions.


Wasn't trying to change the subject but I have thoughts along the same lines quite a bit.

Well as far as the eye goes it would have been great if you didn't need two of them to have depth perception. I think some critters don't need two to achieve that.


There is no question that we could have been better designed to survive better and experience the world in a much better way.

There are so many things that animals have that could have been very helpful to us like the things you explained.

I used the eye this time because many christians would argue that its perfect. Some say that we are perfect beings.

When we talk of perfect we talk of being "the best". If we had the perfect eye then it would do what all the other eyes could.

Perfect shouldn't have flaws.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by danielsil18
I hear a lot that god made us perfect. An example given is the human eye.

But are our eyes really that perfect?

Our eyes are not perfect, one of it's faults is that it has a Blind Spot. The eye of an octopus doesn't have this problem. If our nerve fibers and our retina changed positions then our eyes would be better designed and we wouldn't have the blind spot.

If god created us, then why did he give the octopus better eyes?



Octopi live under the water..........if we had "perfect eyes" made like the octopus imagine the effect of UV rays on them. The water acts like a filter for them we would not have that luxury.
Switching our nerve fibers with our retinas would be a very bad idea.
Quad



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by danielsil18
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





That is exactly what I said, and what I explained in my opening post. They use the eye's complexity (not perfection) as an example of something evolution can not explain (it's called irreducible complexity). So you admit you took two separate ideas and combined them into one idea that is never espoused by Christians? I am glad you admit it.

So go back and look at my first post where I explained what "perfect" means.


You still dont get it and are going in circles too many times. I'll put the part in italic so you don't miss it again. I don't blame you because it might be your blind spot. Many christians say that our eyes are so complex and perfect that it had to have a creator. They are saying it's complex and perfect. But our eyes are not perfect. Perfection shouldn't have faults. It's like a painting having a red X while the other one doesn't.

I'll say it again so you dont miss it. Many christians use the complexity and the perfection of the eye as evidence for god.




Play Devil's Advocate for a moment, assume the Bible is true, can you think of any reason? When you do so, I will give you an answer. If you tell me you can't think of one then you only confirm you are not here for answers and could not care less. You have your mind made up and are simply wanting to lord something over Christians, which you fail to recognize shows your ignorance, not theirs.


Did you really think I can here to be converted or accept anyone's answer?

I came here to see what kind of answers i would get.

I welcome all answers because i learn more from them, but I don't ask to be converted nor I accept anyone's answer, I research and study to get to my own answers.

No. You are claiming they say it is perfect. It is not a general Christian belief, just because one person thinks so does not make it a "Christian belief". The eye being too COMPLEX is a common Christian belief. So stop making stuff up, please. I even gave you the term, irreducible complexity, which has NOTHING to do with perfection. Please show me all your sources where it's claimed the eye is perfect so I can read them.

Perhaps you can also look up the term Devil's Advocate, it has nothing to do with conversion, it's actually about researching and studying, which you claim you want to do.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by Quadrivium
 





Octopi live under the water..........if we had "perfect eyes" made like the octopus imagine the effect of UV rays on them. The water acts like a filter for them we would not have that luxury.
Switching our nerve fibers with our retinas would be a very bad idea.
Quad


Good answer, ill have to research on this.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:40 AM
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posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





No. You are claiming they say it is perfect. It is not a general Christian belief, just because one person thinks so does not make it a "Christian belief". The eye being too COMPLEX is a common Christian belief. So stop making stuff up, please. I even gave you the term, irreducible complexity, which has NOTHING to do with perfection. Please show me all your sources where it's claimed the eye is perfect so I can read them.

Perhaps you can also look up the term Devil's Advocate, it has nothing to do with conversion, it's actually about researching and studying, which you claim you want to do.


It's much more than a christian who said that the eye is perfect. Im not making it up, I've talked to many christian when I get invited to go to church with some friends. Many of them say that the eye is perfect.

I do try to think like a christian, but i dont claim to be able to get all the answers that a christian would give me.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by danielsil18
 


I agree. That is why when I made my little list I used examples already found in nature. We know it could be done we were just short changed.

Here is an idea about the eye. Maybe god made us with a blind spot because us being made in his image also means he has a blind spot. If we were supposed to take the bible on faith that it is truly his words. But that creats a problem of Omniscience. oops.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by danielsil18
 


I agree. That is why when I made my little list I used examples already found in nature. We know it could be done we were just short changed.

Here is an idea about the eye. Maybe god made us with a blind spot because us being made in his image also means he has a blind spot. If we were supposed to take the bible on faith that it is truly his words. But that creats a problem of Omniscience. oops.


There are so many things I would change about the body. One thing I already posted, is that our esophagus and our trachea are connected and are way to close to each other that we can die by choking with our food.

We could have been better designed for a better survival.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by danielsil18
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





No. You are claiming they say it is perfect. It is not a general Christian belief, just because one person thinks so does not make it a "Christian belief". The eye being too COMPLEX is a common Christian belief. So stop making stuff up, please. I even gave you the term, irreducible complexity, which has NOTHING to do with perfection. Please show me all your sources where it's claimed the eye is perfect so I can read them.

Perhaps you can also look up the term Devil's Advocate, it has nothing to do with conversion, it's actually about researching and studying, which you claim you want to do.


It's much more than a christian who said that the eye is perfect. Im not making it up, I've talked to many christian when I get invited to go to church with some friends. Many of them say that the eye is perfect.

I do try to think like a christian, but i dont claim to be able to get all the answers that a christian would give me.


So you can't give me a single source then? Any christian saying what you are saying is misunderstanding the Christian view, which is irreducible complexity, not perfection. A lot of people say a lot of things, the eye is not perfect, I am glad we could clear that up.

Since you clearly do not care for an answer, here is a hint as to a possible answer.
Mat 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by Mugen
 


Cool video I have just added some things to my hypothetical human list. Staying away from the spiting fire thing seems like it would be like heartburn. Loved these though.

Axolotl Salamander-ability to regrow limbs including heart and brain.
Platypus-ability electrolocation can sense electrical signals from muscular contractions in prey
Gecko-ability super wall climbing feet are covered in hair-like setae that bond on a molecular level with surfaces-can cling to wall with a single toe
Electric eel- ability generate electricity up to 600 volts–just cool
Hydrozoan (jelly)-ability immortality can reverse aging at will reverting back to its youth



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by danielsil18

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by danielsil18
 


I agree. That is why when I made my little list I used examples already found in nature. We know it could be done we were just short changed.

Here is an idea about the eye. Maybe god made us with a blind spot because us being made in his image also means he has a blind spot. If we were supposed to take the bible on faith that it is truly his words. But that creats a problem of Omniscience. oops.


There are so many things I would change about the body. One thing I already posted, is that our esophagus and our trachea are connected and are way to close to each other that we can die by choking with our food.

We could have been better designed for a better survival.


What verse in the Bible makes you think God was trying to create the ultimate survivor species?



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by Nacirema
reply to post by danielsil18
 


Newts (aquatic amphibians) can regenerate limbs, eyes, spinal cords, and hearts, yet humans do not possess this ability. For whatever reason, God decided not to equip us with this ability, but instead gave us the mental faculties necessary to worship Him.

God indulging Himself in the reverence of His worshipers > an individual's bodily well-being

I guess having your eyes gouged out is fine, since you'll still be able to worship Him! Some competent designer...
edit on 8/30/2013 by Nacirema because: (no reason given)


According to evolution, the newt would have come along before us, too bad evolution discarded the regrowing appendage part for us to have. Oh wait, newts still do it, and they are still around not extinct....damn evolutionary wastebasket.



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