David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

reply to post by Wildmanimal


Stupid BS stereotypes aside, as has been pointed out above the US doesn't have to do a damn thing.

If your country takes action, and it's against the will of the people, then that's something you're all gonna have to think about long and hard, but you sold the original Iraq lie to the world - so it's a lot harder for the US to back down now.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by Wildmanimal

 

Stupid BS stereotypes aside, as has been pointed out above the US doesn't have to do a damn thing.

If your country takes action, and it's against the will of the people, then that's something you're all gonna have to think about long and hard, but you sold the original Iraq lie to the world - so it's a lot harder for the US to back down now.

Ditto

reply to post by neformore


Obama and the US executive have painted themselves into a prison of their own rhetoric.

Obama can't back off now .. it would look like conceding defeat .. he can't hit small .. that would look weak ... he has to go big and destroy the whole Assad group.

Politically he needs a false attack on US assets to circumvent the UN and the Security Council ... if a US jet or a US warship were to be hit by a missile that would be most convenient and would allow him to take direct military retaliation in accordance with International law.

Keep in mind that an attack on Sat/Sun without such provocation would make the US the aggressor and allow Syria to declare war and retaliate by all means.

Afghanistan ended the USSR .... Syria will do the same for the US IMHO.

C..

Originally posted by neformore


A rare piece of common sense here from the UK Government.

I'm suprised - I thought he Tory's and Lib Dems would have whipped this through - it looks like it was an actual open vote.

The question is this - will the US follow suit or will Obama decide to act unliaterally - and is this a turning point in western intervention in the middle east?

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

You've got the back to front. It was the government who wanted to go to war, it's the opposition (Labour) who essentially stopped the motion going through.

Originally posted by ziplock9000

Originally posted by neformore


A rare piece of common sense here from the UK Government.

I'm suprised - I thought he Tory's and Lib Dems would have whipped this through - it looks like it was an actual open vote.

The question is this - will the US follow suit or will Obama decide to act unliaterally - and is this a turning point in western intervention in the middle east?

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

You've got the back to front. It was the government who wanted to go to war, it's the opposition (Labour) who essentially stopped the motion going through.

Thats not the whole story. There was a significant rebellion inside the Conservatives and Lib Dems too.

Its not party political. This was more about a war hungry executive trying to drag a reluctant legislature and a furious cynical public along, and failing.

The people of this country do not trust the executive and the intelligence services as they did prior to 2003. That trust will be a long time returning, if ever.

reply to post by Cosmic4life


I think what you wrote make a lot of sense.

Let's wait now for a few days to see if this fake attack on US warship happens...or perhaps...a "terrorist attack" on US.

I seem to recall a few days before...that apparently Assad threathened US that they will lose same as they lost in Vietnam...I remember also..."terrorist attacks" being mentioned as a way of Assad responding. I remember thinking..."wow...what an unusual threat...a country official threathening with terrorist attacks"

Was that an early precursor of things to come...I sincerely doubt Assad would pull off openly admitted state sponsored terror attack...that would be the end of him. I doubt he is that dumb...although...the "intelligence" wants us to believe that all those dictators are mentally unstable and would do what common sense says don't.

Better get my conspiracy goggles out...maybe an imminent terror attack coming America's way...

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


It's not that unusual a threat, Iran has done it many times before as I'm sure some others have as well, although they might not specifically say terrorist, there have been threats against "interests abroad" etc..

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

 

It's not that unusual a threat, Iran has done it many times before as I'm sure some others have as well, although they might not specifically say terrorist, there have been threats against "interests abroad" etc..

Well the wording is important...we all know what power the word "terrorist" has today...also...I don't think that terrorists call themselves terrorists or their deeds...terror acts. They prettier names like "liberation army"...or "fatal blow to the enemy"

I suspect that Assad's warning about using terrorist acts is not his wording...but is perhaps used for fear mongering purposes by those that translate and convey to us...

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly
All countries in protracted wars use special operations behind enemy lines to further their gains. Maybe Assad has had enough forward planning to set these up within the USA which is such an open country anything is possible. I was amazed during Iraq 1 and 2 that Saddam didn't take it to the American streets in a similar tit for tat revenge. Maybe it's a good thing Britain is out of it (for now) as one of these days these bitten Arab nations are going to bite back nastily.

Okay so if the evidence from the UN investigators proves Assad Forces used Chems and that the US and UK intelligence released some intel to the world would this then turn tides.

Could the PM go for a second round of votes if this was the case or does this mean the UK military is nulled permanently.

Let's not also forget about Russia and their substantial cyber capabilities, which rival that of the United States. Ever hear of a logic bomb?

Logic Bomb

Now, imagine of few of those sitting within our SCADA systems around the US. Dormant for years, just waiting for us to do something that would trigger them.

Ever see what happens to a major American city when the power goes out?

New York blackout of 1977

Now imagine that happening simultaneously in Washington, D.C., Boston, Los Angeles, Houston, Atlanta... I think you get the picture. How can you fight a war overseas if your home is burning?

The Obama administration had better tread VERY carefully, any response to US launches against Syria will be asymmetric in nature, and I seriously doubt we have the redundant systems in place to deal with them.

David Cameron kept on saying got to make a judgement call about this, trying to beat the war drums instead of waiting for proof who was behind the chemical weapon. I bet the CIA or mossad had a hand in chemical weapon usage.

I hope the Obama administration has not painted itself into a corner on this issue. The high road that they should take is to say to the American people,

"We believe that a military strike on Syria would have value as a deterrent to further use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime, however in the absence of a consensus among our allies and in the absence of a United Nations resolution approving such a strike, we are willing to hold such direct action in abeyance and to pursue other means to assist the Syrian people to achieve relief from legitimate grievances they have with the regime in place in that country."

They save face. They maintain their posture. They navigate to a common sense position.

reply to post by deviant300


The commons would be recalled and a second vote would be taken if new evidence came to light.

The only other thing that could usurp that is if an attack on a British asset happened, essentially putting us on a war footing in which case the PM could simply refer to the leaders of each of the parties represented in parliament for a quick consensus.

Originally posted by Echo007
David Cameron kept on saying got to make a judgement call about this, trying to beat the war drums instead of waiting for proof who was behind the chemical weapon. I bet the CIA or mossad had a hand in chemical weapon usage.

I heard yesterday on radio that some German newspaper was saying the behind the scenes "evidence" blaming the attack on Assad's forces was being provided by the Israeli secret service! Listening in to telephone conversations at the highest level apparently. You just knew it lol!

reply to post by neformore
Even the Brits have got the upper hand on this one, good for them.

So what happen to the idea that Obama told the world how arrogant and mean America has been before he came along to change all that.....................the world is really loving us now..............hold up the peace prize Obama and show the world what a great lire, I mean statesman you are.

Tell me something please, has Obama told the truth about "ANYTHING" I mean did I miss something in the last 5 years of circus insanity.

Dont believe that the UK will not get involved despite the vote.. I am in a position to know that we are already involved... When this thing escalates... And it already is.. Britain will have no choice to show up overtly rather than covertly.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by crazyewok
Well excpet for 1812

Shhhhh....

They're taught they won that one too..... Seriously...

Thanks for the chuckle...

We wrote our own history books....We are now 12-1.

Originally posted by EvanB
Dont believe that the UK will not get involved despite the vote.. I am in a position to know that we are already involved...

Exactly!!
Half the reason Syria is in the state its in is due to our covert operations to destabilize the whole region, justifying us to go in and fix what we broke in the first place.

It would seem that for once the underestimation of the "plebs" intelligence is kicking Cameron in the arse right now.
Just goes to show how disconnected from the people they claim to represent they have become.