JUST BREAKING: British MPs vote on government motion, opposition amendment on Syria

I don't think this is fully played out yet and there will be many twists and turns before it reaches it's conclusion, whatever that may be.

If the UN investigation does reveal 'compelling evidence' that Assad was responsible for the chemical attack then we still may see the UK taking an active and leading role in any sort of military intervention.

Well, the British have dodged this massacre of allied forces, but after it happens they will have to be involved.

Hi there,

Thought id add a link of the UK's argument for this voting bill to add insight to MP's decisions as I have not seen it anywhere on here.

Syria Chemical Weapon use UK Goverment

www.gov.uk... overnment-legal-position-html-version

Here's a quote -

Chemical weapon use by Syrian regime: UK government legal position Published 29 August 2013 Contents ↑Contents Is there anything wrong with this page? See more information about this publication All content is available under the Open Government Licence v2.0, except where otherwise stated

1. This note sets out the UK government’s position regarding the legality of military action in Syria following the chemical weapons attack in Eastern Damascus on 21 August 2013.

2. The use of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime is a serious crime of international concern, as a breach of the customary international law prohibition on use of chemical weapons, and amounts to a war crime and a crime against humanity. However, the legal basis for military action would be humanitarian intervention; the aim is to relieve humanitarian suffering by deterring or disrupting the further use of chemical weapons.

Its only two pages long... And has a few points. But all assumption...


eee.

I wonder what sneaky, underhanded deeds are taking place while we're all distracted with this Syria lark.

Just thinking out loud.

You mean Obama gets to be a hero all by himself?

Center stage, limelight, legacies....naw Obama won't gravitate there.

The only man on the planet to have the moral fortitude to say no to the use of chemical weapons, bet it will be the centerpiece of his presidential library someday.

The Brits would have just got in the way of the French retreat anyhow.
"Neville" Cameron step aside, Obama got this.

reply to post by doobydoll


Russia must have flexed a muscle here as UK is reliant on their energy.

Was this a climbdown or a test of stage managed public reaction?

Great news that both motions have not been passed.
A victory for common sense!

I dislike Obama and his government more everyday for his (US led) meddling in other countries affairs and wanting to go to war on a hunch. We should be striving to make peace and resolve differences without just jumping straight into a war. Yes, sometimes it maybe necessary, but NOT in this instance.

Our elected leaders should strive to make the world a better place for our children. Both Cameron and Obama are shocking examples of being good leaders.

Originally posted by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire
..................
The main cause of the vote loss was that the three page dosier handed out arguing the need for action mainly suggested Assad regime caused the attacks, saying it was "likely" Assads regime carried out the gas attacks.

There was no definate hard proof and a lot of the MP's don't want another attack carried out with little infomation (i.e. Iraq)

The current thoughts are that USA are going to release more intelligence on this also, to try and prove who was responsable.

eee.

That's it, basically. To me, this vote really says nothing because of the lack of evidence. The US pentagon claims to have evidence, but we should wait to see what hte UN inspectors have to say. And once we've collected all hte evidence available then they vote again.

This issue is not over.

A thorn in its side is the funding of the rebels by the US and whoever else and the claimed rebel links to al-qaeda. Personally, I think if the US had not given funding to the whole thing then it would remove a lot of the weight from making a decision to intervene. I say this because by funding the rebels we're in part to blame for the explosion of violence it has fueled. It's kind of like we brought a sledge hammer down on a crack in the dam and watched as the dam workers broke humanitarian rules to stem the flood and then we complain when others say we should not have had a hand in it. It's obvious the dam workers should not act criminally, but our involvement is not blameless.

But I strongly feel Assad is punishing his people for wanting freedom and is indeed not only a control freak but a egomaniac and a murderer of dissidents as well. He deserves the international disdain. In fact, since the general public of the world would not expect him to use chemical weapons at this time, it's possible he did indeed launch the latest chemical attack as an act of defiance. Because the general tv watching ignoramus public thinks he has no motive, he might have exploited the circumstances to not only do that but prepare a fake discovery of chemical weapons linked to rebel sources. As a result, the viewing public will naturally be inclined to think the discovery is legitimate and would support their feelings about the rebels having a motive to use chemical weapons and then blame it on him. Nobody expects Assad to do this and it'd only be obvious to intelligence agencies.

Originally posted by deprogrammer
reply to post by doobydoll

 

Russia must have flexed a muscle here as UK is reliant on their energy.

Was this a climbdown or a test of stage managed public reaction?

No I don't think so. The majority of the UK gas actually comes from Qatar, a nation backing the rebels that will no doubt be making some complaints to the UK foreign office right about now.

Its lots of individual MPs facing an avalanche of lobbying from their constituents. The public overwhelmingly are tired of war and nobody believes the establishment at this point.

Plus the fact that the government motion was sufficiently vaguely worded that some on the fence felt they couldn't support it for fear of being hoodwinked.

I'm pleasantly shocked by it all. Democracy not dead after all.

Originally posted by Horus12
Let the propaganda commence

Indeed,
Having left my house at 7.30am to bust my gut working all day, getting back at 10pm - seeing Cameron get served his own arse, on live TV was very refreshing!

Then crept in the realisation that the spoiled brat does tend to get his way and, as you say propaganda, along with dirty tricks, some misinfo etc, will all play a huge part in making sure he gets his 'Moment'

He is an egotist and will not be satisfied with the legacy of his premiership, unless he has his own war...

Like all the f'kin 'Greats'

reply to post by deviant300


I like this result for two reasons: the first is obviously that Parliament has told Cameron to take a flying jump at the moon, and the second is that this will bring political pressure on Obama to put the motion before the US Congress: it would look very bad for Obama the head of the supposedly most democratic country in the world behaving very undemocratically and unilaterally waging war -- it would be illegal and unconstitutional as well.

Don't worry, just wait for it.
The Brits, Frogs and Canucks will end up being there in some capacity.
It's only a matter of timing. Russia and China will make noise but will back off eventually.
They want the land and its resources too. They will let the Amerikans get the bad press.
You can bet that political expediency will trump the will of any Parliament or Politburo for that matter.

so where is President Assad on T.V, announcing that
whoever gave the go ahead for such a crime against all humanity, will be tried in a Court of Law,, for all thw world too see?

"The case has been investigated by a State which has jurisdiction over it and the State has decided not to prosecute the person concerned, unless the decision resulted from the unwillingness or inability of the State genuinely to prosecute;"

reply to post by MrInquisitive


Didn't stop him in Libya..

When an overwhelming majority of people have an actual opinion about something, the lawmakers usually go with the flow.

When lawmakers pass horrible laws under the radar, it is because people don't care about it enough and don't really have a real opinion either way.

A few exceptions...one being the big wall st. bailout...that was just straight up against the grain but the bankers wouldn't want it any other way.

Originally posted by deviant300
British lawmakers have rejected a Labor amendment on that would have authorized the United Kingdom’s intervention in Syria, with a vote regarding a government motion underway.

Labour Amendment Scores:

Yes 220

No 332

Maj 112

They won't let a little thing like voting stop them from a war they've been planning for years.
Either they will find a reason to ignore the vote, or will rig a second, larger false flag to get the job done.

Add: Or maybe they'll just let the US and France do it this time. I doubt they care who gets the job done for them.

I would love for there to be a rule against "JUST BREAKING" or "BREAKING" titled posts.. I may sound whiny, but the fact is some of these posts remain popular for days .. certainly hours.. yes I realize this was posted when actually was breaking.. but still, I and I am sure many of the other readers tend to ignore posts that have "BREAKING" in the title

Anyway..

On topic.. I watched it live and one thing I love about the UK is how vocal they are.. you hear cheering and boos... it's lively, they will yell at each-other in fact.. our senate/congress seems to be acting for the public... the prime minister in the UK has to deal with some harsh stuff .. and they joke around a lot.. it's just such a culture shock to me.

Originally posted by Freeborn
I don't think this is fully played out yet and there will be many twists and turns before it reaches it's conclusion, whatever that may be.

If the UN investigation does reveal 'compelling evidence' that Assad was responsible for the chemical attack then we still may see the UK taking an active and leading role in any sort of military intervention.

Absolutely right... the PM will lighten it up a bit and bring it back.. he didn't lose by much, but there's a very short period of time for him to win because I suspect that after Saturday when the UN inspectors are out, the US will launch ICBM's .. I think before the extended weekend is over, the US will have attacked Syria

Originally posted by all2human
reply to post by MrInquisitive

 

Didn't stop him in Libya..

In Libya the US backed the UK and France as part of a NATO campaign that also had a UN Security Resolution calling for an enforceable no-fly zone. Yes, the US fired some Tomahawks as part of it too as well as provided logisitics, but it didn't go it alone.

Now I've just read an article that US intelligence sources are saying that the intel is not a slam dunk that the Syrian government side did it, or that the leadership knew about it ahead of time if it was even doen by their side. I think Obama is going to back down and look like a real clown when all is said and done -- along with CNN and the other 'news' media clowns who were whipping up this war just a day ago.

Originally posted by eLPresidente
When an overwhelming majority of people have an actual opinion about something, the lawmakers usually go with the flow.

When lawmakers pass horrible laws under the radar, it is because people don't care about it enough and don't really have a real opinion either way.

A few exceptions...one being the big wall st. bailout...that was just straight up against the grain but the bankers wouldn't want it any other way.

And finally, this speaks volumes about Obama's autonomy. US public opinon has been
ignored, as well as the rule of law for the sake of "security" as if Obama has a choice to
do anything other than as instructed. And it's obvious to I hope everybody We the People
aren't the instructors... the bankers rule. Just ask Forbes.
I personally believe the stress of being this compromised and pushed around is the root
cause of Fearless Leader's rapid aging.

Besides, the vote won't likely matter in a short time whether the UK deploys or not.
We're all toast because the people's will is of no consideration or consequence.

Finally, and no less bully for you Brits. And even more so for Parliament and Cameron's
follow thru. At least in possibly the last breath of modern civilization, some body in the
West representing a population said "no" without denial of reality being involved.

I'm going now to prepare a place for my new roommate and also among an oldest of three
friends. I hope his train doesn't get fused to the tracks on the way here.