Obama starts his move against Firearms...as he said he would.

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posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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Well, Obama warned everyone. Amazing, when language like that fits to use about a leader we elected. However we find ourselves with an elected position that seems to believe he's a sovereign in his own right. Well..... We'll see how much of this survives court challenge. I imagine Obama will be back to seeing his dreams torn asunder by the bang of a gavel in short order.

Hey, he loves the P.R. points in saying he's "doing something" though. Despite his own experts questioning the efficacy of any of it. Hell, we don't let factual evidence stand in the way of an idea whose 'time has come' though right?


WASHINGTON (AP) — Striving to take action where Congress would not, the Obama administration announced new steps Thursday on gun control, curbing the import of military surplus weapons and proposing to close a little-known loophole that lets felons and others circumvent background checks by registering guns to corporations.

Four months after a gun control drive collapsed spectacularly in the Senate, President Barack Obama added two more executive actions to a list of 23 steps the White House determined Obama could take on his own to reduce gun violence. With the political world focused on Mideast tensions and looming fiscal battles, the move signaled Obama's intent to show he hasn't lost sight of the cause he took up after 20 first graders and six adults were gunned down last year in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.


Then we do have a slight glimmer of hope....until he finds a way to circumvent the American system for this, too.


Still out of reach for Obama were the steps that gun control advocates and the administration's own review say could most effectively combat gun violence in the U.S., like an assault weapons ban and fewer exceptions for background checks for individual sales. Only Congress can act on those fronts.

Although Obama and Biden have said the fight is not over, there is scant evidence that there is more support for gun control legislation than there was in April, when efforts died in the Senate amid staunch opposition from the National Rifle Association and most Republican senators.
Source

For now, anyway, the will of the people as a WHOLE and as expressed through Congress is enough to stop the King from any royal decrees in those most damaging areas. He still respects SOME limitation, although precious little.



'We have a Representative Republic, for as long as we can keep it'. Words similar to those were said outside the Constitutional Convention when one famous participant was asked, upon leaving, what form of Government the men inside had created for the new nation. It was a true statement too, for as long as we could keep it.

I think we've lost what we were entrusted to stay vigilant with and keep on top of. We've nearly lost it all by default and lack of effort to even try changing the path.
edit on 29-8-2013 by wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


He wants to stop the reimportation of Military Hardware.


One new policy will end a government practice that lets military weapons, sold or donated by the U.S. to allies, be reimported into the U.S. by private entities, where some may end up on the streets.


And Corporations have to follow the same procedures as the rest of us. (they are people too now, arn't they?)


The new rule would require people associated with those entities, like beneficiaries and trustees, to undergo the same type of fingerprint-based background checks as individuals if they want to register guns.

Obama offers new gun control steps

Really don't see a problem with this.
edit on 29-8-2013 by BritofTexas because: Spelling



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


I honestly don't see an issue with either of these. Both are common sense and bot are well within his legal limit.

One deals with US military weapons and the re-importation of them for public sale. This is more of a contract stipulation and the President does have the ability to approve/disapprove items being imported into this country...especially when it is our own Military equipment coming back to us. If nothing else, it can come under National Security.

The other is just a stupid side effect of Citizens United where a CORPORATION can register a gun. Now, that is just dumb. The 2nd amendment doesn't protect Corporations rights to bear arms. This is an enforcement issue of current law, which is exactly what the executive branch is supposed to do.

Good job on Obama, and two logical orders to close some loopholes.

Does anyone actually disagree with these orders on their merit?



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:43 AM
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None of this will stop violence.

Its about controlling what types of weapons people are allowed to posses.



+6 more 
posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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Thursday on gun control, curbing the import of military surplus weapons and proposing to close a little-known loophole that lets felons and others circumvent background checks by registering guns to corporations.


That is another Obama lie. Felons can't own guns even using that 'corporate loophole' which most people call gun trusts.

Felons DON'T USE that method.They buy them out of a trunk. They don't go all that trouble.

And the biggest reason this is bullsnip.

Not a single shooting that went national used gun trusts.

Not one!
edit on 29-8-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


More restrictions on the shoulders of owners and absolutely nothing towards those that commit crimes with firearms!

If DC doesn't want to have voter ID to express their constitutional right, then there should be no restrictions towards another constitutional right!

I will get behind any politician R or D, who expresses 1 law where actual criminals are punished for the commision of a crime using a firearm, instead of putting stop-gap measures in place for those that have commit NO crimes!



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


They could be the greatest ideas since sliced bread and the Betamax. It isn't about the idea. It's about the fact this isn't just THOUGHT to be an end run around Congress as the designated American body in Government to be making major legal policy, but he's outright stated on numerous occasions (him and Biden both) that is his entire purpose with the executive action by regulation. To backdoor Congress and, by extension, the American people.

We had to scream at Congress so loud it rattled windows before they backed down and listened to drop this subject. At least for this year. Why did we even bother? Why even make a phone call, send an Email or CARE what Congress says, does or thinks? The President can, in MOST ways, backdoor everything about our ONLY representation. He's not simply saying it? He's outright doing it. Watch the King Go.


By the way.... How many people here know anything on a working level about what the Gun Trusts are, why they exist or what he's insuring is torn apart and basically eliminated? I do for having started to application process a couple years ago to create one. I'm wondering if many others even heard of them before?

Obama sure couldn't wait to tear into them though. Every last possible "loophole" that just annoys the man...He will remove by decree. What a life..... I wonder if King George was this bad?



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by BritofTexas
 


Here is the problem with this AMONG the many, problems with this. The second,ninth,tenth, amendments are clear.

Why would you support civili liberties violations of gun owners.


Lawyers say a growing number of firearms owners are creating special gun trusts, which are designed to allow collectors to share and pass down firearms to loved ones without inadvertently breaking any laws.



Even without the specter of stricter gun-control legislation, however, a complex patchwork of federal and state gun laws makes it easy for gun owners and their families to get into legal trouble when transferring or taking possession of firearms, especially restricted ones



Armed for the Future: Gun Trusts Help Owners Legally Pass Down Firearms



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


I don't see anything wrong with these actions. As a matter of fact, I don't know why these things would have ever been legal to begin with.


On the other hand, when they do come to confiscate your guns, I doubt you'll even know it's happened until it's already over with. They'll probably swoop down in the night with invisibility cloaked drones equipped with night vision and snake-like arms that can unlock your doors, then reach into your house and take all your guns while your still fast asleep. You know, kinda like the way they swooped up people in the movie, "Cowboys & Aliens."


+8 more 
posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 




The hypocrite in chief.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:53 AM
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I don't know why he didn't do this sooner.

I agree with both of the actions, the one that closes the loophole where people that are disallowed are able to register their guns to a corporation is a no brainer



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
Felons DON'T USE that method.They buy them out of a trunk. They don't go all that trouble.

And the biggest reason this is bullsnip.

Not a single shooting that went nations used gun trusts.

Not one!


Thank you Neo. You are 100% right on all points. It is still a crime to hand a felon a gun, whether it's a part of an overall trust or not. It does allow, say, family to own certain weapons and not break the law by handing one to another member of the family at a range, who didn't go through the whole permit process to buy it.

For example...(for those who don't know what these are used for, in one case anyway). If you want to own a fully automatic machine gun in the United States, you can. An M-60 Light Machine Gun I saw last year on Gunbroker ran about $40,000. I didn't say the average person could ever afford one....but you can legally own one if you have the permits.

In normal cases, EVERY SINGLE PERSON who would handle, possess (even at a range for a moment), let alone fire that Rambo-Rifle would need the same permit and it's a pain in the ass to say the very least.

In a Gun Trust, the weapon can be held by the trust and those who are a member to that trust are then able to handle and fire it. So a household of 6 people doesn't need to go through the whole thing, cost and time SIX TIMES. They just need the trust established for the family and that covers those who are named.

That is what Obama wants to destroy......because it's far better to repeat the same headache 6 separate times for the same household.
edit on 29-8-2013 by wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Spin it how you like.

However.

It doesn't stop my Grandmother leaving me her favorite Blunderbuss.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by BritofTexas
 


That ain't spin.

That is truth.

I don't support government fascism unlike some.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 



They could be the greatest ideas since sliced bread and the Betamax. It isn't about the idea. It's about the fact this isn't just THOUGHT to be an end run around Congress as the designated American body in Government to be making major legal policy, but he's outright stated on numerous occasions (him and Biden both) that is his entire purpose with the executive action by regulation. To backdoor Congress and, by extension, the American people.


You haven't really said how this is outside of his power. The executive branch is authorized to enforce the laws that Congress has passed.

If it is outside of his power, the SCOTUS will determine that...that is how our system works. No reason to get bent out of shape about it...just let our system work.


By the way.... How many people here know anything on a working level about what the Gun Trusts are, why they exist or what he's insuring is torn apart and basically eliminated? I do for having started to application process a couple years ago to create one. I'm wondering if many others even heard of them before?


I honestly don't care why they exists. It's dumb to allow corporations or trusts to register a gun. The 2nd amendment protects the individuals rights, not an organization or a collective of people.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by muse7
I don't know why he didn't do this sooner.

I agree with both of the actions, the one that closes the loophole where people that are disallowed are able to register their guns to a corporation is a no brainer


Yo?

Did the Aruora Shooter,Sandy Hook shooter, Zimmerman, and every other shooter in the last 5 years

USE GUN TRUSTS ?

I know some people just hate corporations no matter the cause, but this is PUNISHING people who haven't done jack snip to anyone.

Support holding the entire country accountable for actions they did not commit ?

Really ?
edit on 29-8-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 11:04 AM
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Slowly chipping away at our Constitution one sentence at a time.
neo's meme made me yell at my screen.
More B.S. laws that do nothing to prevent crimes from happening, maybe some more gun free zone signs will help



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by neo96

Thursday on gun control, curbing the import of military surplus weapons and proposing to close a little-known loophole that lets felons and others circumvent background checks by registering guns to corporations.


That is another Obama lie. Felons can't own guns even using that 'corporate loophole' which most people call gun trusts.

Felons DON'T USE that method.They buy them out of a trunk. They don't go all that trouble.


Where does that trunk full of guns come from?

You can say they were all "stolen"...but stats show otherwise..

"Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes,"

www.pbs.org...

Besides...after the tonnage of NRA rhetoric about how guns stop crime and defend homes...do you really want to argue that all the crime guns used in the USA come from gun owners who failed to secure thier guns and were victims of succesful crimes?

So where do they originate?

Is it possible that gun-runners use blind trusts to hide thier dealings and identities?

Or that the cash-and-carry vendors at gun-shows set up blind trust entities to sell Military Surplus weapons?

Hell the EO doesn't even ban Gun-Running via blind trust...it simply asks those folks hiding behind the trust to come forward and have thier background checked to make sure they are not known criminals.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 11:07 AM
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, the move signaled Obama's intent to show he hasn't lost sight of the cause he took up after 20 first graders and six adults were gunned down last year in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn


The Sandy Hook shooter was not a felon, did not use a gun trust, did not use the 'corporate loophole'.

I guess someone people support a lying Potus.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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Also the importation of old military hardware really is a big deal to some collectors. Korea had ?? I dunno how many M-1s and carbines that they wanted to give back...No No not gonna happen.

I have to wonder if and how it will effect some of the Russian rifles and pistols? The problem with allot of this is the ignorance shown by those who direct the laws to be written in the first place. Kinda like Jane Fonda playing Nancy Regan in the new movie "The Butler"... some things are just to unbelievable to even discuss....without getting pissed off.





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