Goddess Worship And The Babel Religions

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Deetermined

 

The White Goddess, by Robert Graves

Are you sure you want to use this as a reference? Here's one of the reviews of this book and the author...

But Graves was a poet, not a social scientist, and in the last fifty years many of his observations have been proven to be wrong. This in itself is not so surprising, nor is it really such a bad thing; the real problem is the amount of emotional residue that those ideas left in their wake. Graves makes some observations that some would find offensive now, such as his allegation that women can't be real poets - they have no Muse to appeal to , the White Goddess only wants the worship of males. He makes a possible exception of Sappho, for what it's worth.

reply to post by Cuervo


actually, the crescent moon and star were symbols of allah, and i will show you how to follow that thread so you can detangle it from what you've learned thus far. don't run off. this is interesting.

al'lah is sumerian enlil. his symbol was the crescent moon and star. he had a "grand daughter" named inana, who was also known as isis (she was also called the grand daughter of enki. at this point i have no way of deciphering why that is). now considering that, what a surprise is it to find out that enlil is also one of the forms of jehovah recounted in the old testament (it's an egyptian book in disguise). if inana was also isis, then she is most likely an early form of astarte, as well. and since we're talking about isis, what about her counterpart? well it's enmerkar, who is nimrod, who is egyptian narmer, the guy that restarted the egyptian civilization following the black sea flood. he was, by the way, the first post flood pharaoh to hold the title, osiris. but who was the first? enki. i believe he was the first osiris. the first pharaoh, the alpha of the alpha and the omega.

the etymology is:

EN.LIL
LIL
IL
ILU
ILAH
AL'ILAH

every mesopotamian god was named after him, including bel and ba'al, and jehovah was attributed with some of his exploits in the old testament.

(EN just means LORD) He was Lord of the Air and Lord of the Command, owner of Planet Earth. This was his planet. his property. and he didn't want humans on it, as is clear from the ancient texts of the area.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Cuervo

 

actually, the crescent moon and star were symbols of allah, and i will show you how to follow that thread so you can detangle it from what you've learned thus far. don't run off. this is interesting.

al'lah is sumerian enlil. his symbol was the crescent moon and star. he had a "grand daughter" named inana, who was also known as isis (she was also called the grand daughter of enki. at this point i have no way of deciphering why that is). now considering that, what a surprise is it to find out that enlil is also one of the forms of jehovah recounted in the old testament (it's an egyptian book in disguise). if inana was also isis, then she is most likely an early form of astarte, as well. and since we're talking about isis, what about her counterpart? well it's enmerkar, who is nimrod, who is egyptian narmer, the guy that restarted the egyptian civilization following the black sea flood. he was, by the way, the first post flood pharaoh to hold the title, osiris. but who was the first? enki. i believe he was the first osiris. the first pharaoh, the alpha of the alpha and the omega.

the etymology is:

EN.LIL
LIL
IL
ILU
ILAH
AL'ILAH

every mesopotamian god was named after him, including bel and ba'al, and jehovah was attributed with some of his exploits in the old testament.

(EN just means LORD) He was Lord of the Air and Lord of the Command, owner of Planet Earth. This was his planet. his property. and he didn't want humans on it, as is clear from the ancient texts of the area.

I don't disagree with your etymology so much and, barring a few changes in identity, it's similar to my own conclusions.

But the poster I was replying to was trying to connect Astarte (masculine version of Ishtar) to Allah while distancing Astarte from YHWH by using the crescent moon as an example. I don't dispute that Allah, YHWH, and Jesus all have their origins in Sumerian myth but I've never been shown a solid connection with the crescent. The crescent moon is not a symbol of Allah any more than a flag representing Jesus. If you can show me a connection that also explains away the Ottoman Turk coincidence, I'd be willing to listen.

While you are looking at etymology, you might want to compare some connections with Asherah, as well. If you haven't already looked into it, I think you'd dig it. It's up your alley.

Cuervo

i know the crescent moon symbol came to be associated with the moon god, Sin, and i know the Hayah Asher Hayah thing too. Boy is that a doozie. What i'm trying to show is that jehovah was not a singular god. people who claim he was one god, are referring entirely to enlil. enlil's decisions, enlil's laws, enlil's cruelty. and when jehovah actually likes humans and tries to protect them because 1) he created them and 2) gave them procreation, he's Enki, who is mischaracterized as the bad guy. the thing is flipped on its head. even a cursory reading of apostle paul's references to the laws of moses (who's name in egyptian means "moon god") being the accuser of humankind, should be a huge alarm. warning warning, something doesn't jive here. cause the word accuser is the exact definition of satan.

reply to post by Deetermined


In the 511 pages, I'm sure one can find some valuable information about the goddess cults.

Graves' book is a very interesting read. In it he attempts to "uncover" the earliest religions, especially those dealing with the "mother-goddess" and nature worship, primarily through ancient poetic stories. Graves analyzes what stories have been written down and saved from the times when all tales were memorized and orally transmitted, and claims to reveal their "secrets".

He seems to summarize this approach in writing "(I have no knowledge even of modern Welsh; and) I am not a mediaeval historian. But my profession is poetry, and I agree with the Welsh minstrels that the poet's first enrichment is a knowledge and understanding of myths." (from Chapter 2; emphasis mine.)

In the forward he explains "My thesis is that the language of poetic myth anciently current in the Mediterranean and Northern Europe was a magical language bound up with popular religious ceremonies in honor of the Moon-goddess, or Muse, some of them dating from the Old Stone Age, and that this remains the language of true poetry..."
ogham.lyberty.com...

The White Goddess is perhaps the finest of Robert Graves's works on the psychological and mythological sources of poetry. In this tapestry of poetic and religious scholarship, Graves explores the stories behind the earliest of European deities—the White Goddess of Birth, Love, and Death—who was worshipped under countless titles. He also uncovers the obscure and mysterious power of "pure poetry" and its peculiar and mythic language.

reply to post by Oannes


Yeas ago there was another topic regarding goddess cultures on another forum,
www.debunker.com...
www.straightdope.com...
wicca.cnbeyer.com...

www.belili.org...

No one really knows for sure.

i can't imagine there ever being a real cult of the goddess, because of thousands of years of cruel laws levied almost exclusively against women, even amongst their own people, even in non-abrahamic religions. i mean that stuff has been a global problem for thousands of years. just google female infanticide. it'll freak you right out.

www.gendercide.org...

reply to post by windword

The White Goddess is perhaps the finest of Robert Graves's works on the psychological and mythological sources of poetry. In this tapestry of poetic and religious scholarship, Graves explores the stories behind the earliest of European deities—the White Goddess of Birth, Love, and Death—who was worshipped under countless titles. He also uncovers the obscure and mysterious power of "pure poetry" and its peculiar and mythic language.

My question is, HOW was the White Goddess worshiped? These are the answers I'm looking for. What were the traditions of worship? Citing poetry? Any help you can give me on coming to this understanding is appreciated.

Originally posted by undo
i can't imagine there ever being a real cult of the goddess, because of thousands of years of cruel laws levied almost exclusively against women, even amongst their own people, even in non-abrahamic religions. i mean that stuff has been a global problem for thousands of years. just google female infanticide. it'll freak you right out.

www.gendercide.org...

edit on 30-8-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

Do you have any thoughts on why that is? Just curious.

reply to post by Deetermined


If you want to know how the goddesses were worshiped, don't look at how scholars opine on it's poetry, look at the poetry, hymns and odes to the goddesses yourself. If you want to know how "GOD" was worshiped, look to the poetry of Psalms, Proverbs, Song of Songs, Job, even Isaiah was written in poetry and song.

Homer's Iliad & The Odyssey was legendary poetry.

Poetry and song were the way oral traditions were passed on, generation to generation.

reply to post by Deetermined


To suppress the feminine aspect of God in order to take advantage and become rich off of it is my guess.

reply to post by undo


"How Enki and Enlil are not Satan and God"

The things the seem similar to the Scriptures is for the facts that the creation the gods made were to not gain knowledge beyond to what they need to know. With Enki playing around and changing things that basic knowledge bond was broken and the creation became like the gods, their "eyes were opened." Satan had done the same thing to Eve who passed it to Adam. Both Enlil and God were angry about this event. This caused a strife between the 2 gods which they waged a Star Wars/sci-fi like battle in the cosmos. This same action also took place when Satan tried to fight the forces of God in space. What makes this a bit different is that Satan is the one who didn't like the creation made by God and disobeyed bowing to Adam. In the Sumerian myth, with their compared roles, its the other way around. What is similar to both is what happens at the end of the battle, Satan is caste out to emptiness and so is Enki.

Here is the main difference that shows the Scriptures and Sumerian myth are not the same. Both brother gods can create equally. God can create but Satan can not create the same way, Satan's creations are less developed and not natural like God's. Enki is good and wants to improve mankind as he did. Enlil is bad and wants them to stay ignorant. Satan (Enki) is bad and hates mankind. He also tricks them for the worst, doesn't seem like Enki. God (Enlil) is good and can punish as well, but unlike Enlil he urges man to seek knowledge. Plus at times, randomly God will help man out which Enlil wants no part of. Even if it was switched from Enki is God and Enlil is Satan it still wouldn't add up. For the fact that Satan is active to destroy man never wanted anything for it and Enlil just wants man to be basic with no advanced knowledge.

torchthrower.hubpages.com...

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

To suppress the feminine aspect of God in order to take advantage and become rich off of it is my guess.

So, how do men make money by suppressing women? Are you just saying that men inherently suppress women to keep from having to compete with them? You do realize that Undo mentioned that even non-religious societies had a habit of suppressing women? What's the human aspect of that behavior? That's what I'm asking.

reply to post by Deetermined


That's an easy answer. Humans like power over weaker humans. Women are genetically physically weaker then men. Therefore men with power issues find an easy source of dominance in women.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Cuervo

 

the etymology is:

EN.LIL
LIL
IL
ILU
ILAH
AL'ILAH

Do you have a link to support this etymology?

In the meanwhile, I don't see how EN = El (as in the Bible) or that IL = El for that matter. But either way, the term "El" or "Elohim" only means god or gods without any specifics.

We can probably play the etymology game all day long when it comes to names in the Bible and mythology and I bet we could each find 10 different answers and opinions on it.

There has been much debate concerning the writing, etymology, and hence meaning of Enlil's name. These elements are important to discuss because they also relate to an analysis of this deity's functions. The writing and reading of this deity's name is not certain (see below), and even if we do read den-líl, the translation of "líl" is contentious. The Sumerian word "líl", whose Akkadian equivalent is zaqīqu, means "ghost, phantom, haunted" (Michalowski 1989: 98; Tinney 1996: 129-30; Michalowski 1998) but a translation of Enlil's name as "Lord ghost" makes little sense in the context of his mythological attestations.

The interpretation of líl as "wind" is apparently a secondary development of the first millennium BCE (Tinney 1996: 129), which has led to an interpretation of Enlil's name as "Lord Wind" or "Lord Air" (e.g., Jacobsen 1989). This interpretation has led some scholars to reconstruct a vertically ordered cosmology that consisted of the gods An (heavens), Enlil (atmosphere), and Enki (earth), but this remains very problematic.

Other scholars make reference to Enlil as the "Lord of the Air", when he is seen acting in co-ordination with the storms and winds, e.g., Enlil "the roaring storm" (The Cursing of Agade, ETCSL 1.5.1: 151). There are issues, however, with both ideas, the vertical ordering of Mesopotamian pantheon is rather simplistic, and the references to Enlil as a storm are usually in the context of wider destruction, where the storm could be apposite imagery for Enlil as a powerful, devastating god rather than as a specific "storm deity", e.g., The Lament for Sumer and Urim, ETCSL 2.2.3.

oracc.museum.upenn.edu...

reply to post by Deetermined


Probably because women are weaker than men and men like power and control. Another reason could be to instill that the feminine is not worthy of praise. Mother nature is a feminine aspect of God, and they suppress the feminine so that they can profit off of her resources. If this is not part of heaven, people will be complacent about them destroying Mother Earth, because this isn't the "real deal".

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by Deetermined

 

That's an easy answer. Humans like power over weaker humans. Women are genetically physically weaker then men. Therefore men with power issues find an easy source of dominance in women.

Good answer. Now the following question is, would it still be the same way if the roles and physical characteristics were reversed without changing gender?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by undo

 

"How Enki and Enlil are not Satan and God"

The things the seem similar to the Scriptures is for the facts that the creation the gods made were to not gain knowledge beyond to what they need to know. With Enki playing around and changing things that basic knowledge bond was broken and the creation became like the gods, their "eyes were opened." Satan had done the same thing to Eve who passed it to Adam. Both Enlil and God were angry about this event. This caused a strife between the 2 gods which they waged a Star Wars/sci-fi like battle in the cosmos. This same action also took place when Satan tried to fight the forces of God in space. What makes this a bit different is that Satan is the one who didn't like the creation made by God and disobeyed bowing to Adam. In the Sumerian myth, with their compared roles, its the other way around. What is similar to both is what happens at the end of the battle, Satan is caste out to emptiness and so is Enki.

Here is the main difference that shows the Scriptures and Sumerian myth are not the same. Both brother gods can create equally. God can create but Satan can not create the same way, Satan's creations are less developed and not natural like God's. Enki is good and wants to improve mankind as he did. Enlil is bad and wants them to stay ignorant. Satan (Enki) is bad and hates mankind. He also tricks them for the worst, doesn't seem like Enki. God (Enlil) is good and can punish as well, but unlike Enlil he urges man to seek knowledge. Plus at times, randomly God will help man out which Enlil wants no part of. Even if it was switched from Enki is God and Enlil is Satan it still wouldn't add up. For the fact that Satan is active to destroy man never wanted anything for it and Enlil just wants man to be basic with no advanced knowledge.

torchthrower.hubpages.com...

I found this that you cited, very informative and interesting. Thank you.
Tetra

reply to post by Deetermined


No, it would be women dominating men. It's not like women are immune to the pull of power either.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

men like power and control

Are you male or female?

Do you know any women?