Is suicide/murder a chronic mind process?

My partner Fiona drowned in November 2012. It is suspected that she committed suicide. ATS entries were cruel when I enquired about psychic help when she was missing and before the French fishermen found her body, but that is a matter for me to deal with.

However, what I find interesting is that as I telephone the Samaritans on a regular basis to discuss my feelings of loss is that the Samaritans say that suicide is a chronic process where the mind eventually accepts it as the solution. Fiona telephoned the Samaritans the week before her death.

On another note I think that murdering is another chronic process and the mind eventually concludes that it is the solution.

Perhaps we know less about the mind than we think we do?

On another note her premature death and her autopsy where her brain and heart were cut out makes my mind think that are we all ghosts ourselves with 70 years in this existence if we are lucky.

Why not relax and just do whatever impulse we have? It`s all meaningless in the long run.

There are a lot of topics that are kind of "unacceptable" to talk about, but they aren't going to go away just because we ignore them. They usually end up like one of those pressure cookers. There are a lot of negative things that happen in this world that result from not exploring these issues.

I agree that we must explore these issues; therefore, here I go, exploring......

I am sorry you have lost one you loved. However, I can't agree with your conclusions. Oh yes, I've heard, read, known psychitrist's and others' opinions for qutie some time that murder was but the flip side to suicide. Do you agree with this, as it seems to be what you are saying the Samaritans' are telling you, in a way. However, I caution you that it is, fact, NOT, the same thing, nor the FLIP side of anything, for there is far more to our brains and hearts, surely than this duality.

As for what difference does it make, then, what choice we arrive at if we are suffering: ie, murder someone we identify as causing our suffering, or ourselves (for that's really what you're adressing here, is it not?), I believe, at least, there is a HUGE difference in the matter of said choice, for where your life energy, or soul goes from there.
My life is mine, to take or to squander or to give as a sacrifice, for whatever reason I choose. This is the way I see this matter. But taking someone else's....well, that is a true test of character, especially if you believe or can even prove they are the cause of your suffering.

Does this not define, turning the other cheek, a matter of character and honor, to not cross a certain line no matter what you have suffered......This judgement is not ours to make, I believe.

Just my five cents. And don't take any wooden nichols. My heart goes out to you for your loss. I think you may be feeling this way in a moment of grief, no more and no less, for I have felt similiarly to you in times of such loss, and was glad I regained a perspective other than that.
Tetra50

......the Samaritans say that suicide is a chronic process where the mind eventually accepts it as the solution.....

I don't think it's that simple. It's not the same for everyone. There are many different ways in which any of it can be viewed.

I don't think it is always done as some sort of selfish solution to a problem. Sometimes, I think it is meant as a gift. A gift that is almost never accepted, and rarely even realized, but a gift nonetheless.

Also, even if it has been a long-lasting recurring thought within one's mind, that doesn't necessarily mean they finally just accepted it as the best option. I believe that some had already reached the conclusion long before finally going through with it.

The debate may have ended years earlier, with the remaining question not being "Am I gonna....?", but rather, "When.....?":


Not everyone needs a reason to kill themselves. Many need a reason not to.

I can speak to suicide personally, not murder though (thankfully). Sorry if this post is long.

say that suicide is a chronic process where the mind eventually accepts it as the solution

This is infact true to some people at least. I know that for some of people, it takes years of build up before suicide or an attempt at suicide seemed reasonable. It took 18 years for me to go from "maybe suicide is ok" to actually making an attempt. Some people take shorter times to build up, others take even longer. I thought of suicide as my eternal ace up my sleeve, no matter how bad things got I have a way out. The more I thought like that the more suicide became an acceptable course of action, and the closer I came. I finally made an attempt last April.

The debate may have ended years earlier, with the remaining question not being "Am I gonna....?", but rather, "When.....?":

This is absolutely true. I have met people in group therapy that concluded early on in life, it just wasn't worth it. But felt like they were hanging on hoping it would get better, and when they felt it didn't they made an attempt.

I think that murdering is another chronic process and the mind eventually concludes that it is the solution.

I am sure that a somewhat similar process can be had with murder. I can see someone who murders their abuser taking years to build up to such an action. I can definitely see cases of premeditated murder following a similar process. Thinking how great it would be if that person wasn't around and how much you would love to see them disappear. Years of thinking this way, and all of a sudden getting rid of them yourself doesn't seem so crazy.

Why not relax and just do whatever impulse we have?

As long as you indulging your impulses doesn't harm others, I have zero objection to this. I would say to be careful doing so because impulses can have negative consequences for not thinking things through, but it's your life and you may do what you wish with it. For me personally, my impulses are generally destructive towards myself and cause pain to those I love, so I resist them. YMMV

It`s all meaningless in the long run.

This is true to a point. On a long enough time scale absolutely nothing matters or has meaning. But tomorrow matters, next month matters, next year matters. While there is nothing wrong with recognizing that our actions will have limited consequence in the future, it doesn't mean we should fall into the trap of thinking that nothing in our lives matter or have meaning. If nothing has meaning then why wake up in the morning? Why get dressed? Why eat? Why live? This is the exact kind of thinking that lead me to try to end my life. Nothing matters or has value in the long run, so why bother? We need to recognize that today, tomorrow, the next day and on has meaning and value. Maybe not in a million years, but in one year, our actions are in fact meaningful and can have a large impact on our lives and on the lives of the people around us.

I am truly sorry for your loss dr treg and wish you all the best in working your way through this. Suicide is exercising the ultimate choice in life, and it is probably one of the hardest to accept and understand.

reply to post by dr treg


I'm gonna bite.

My partner Fiona drowned in November 2012. It is suspected that she committed suicide. ATS entries were cruel when I enquired about psychic help when she was missing and before the French fishermen found her body, but that is a matter for me to deal with

Let's start off with this accusaation of cruel entries from ATS shall we ?
First who was being treated cruel by the entries ? And if it wasn't Fiona
shouldn't you be grateful for that ? i mean in light of some of the oddest
posting in a time of crisis that I can remember and know i won't see
again for a long time. I mean just the way you end the above sounds threatning.
Or could at least be taken that way.

reply to post by dr treg


It's not meaningly. People spend endless time trying to figure it all out, or trying to pursue money, power, fame and glory thinking that will make them happy and give them peace. But at any moment if you both want to figure it all out and be happy and totally at peace with life all you have to do is turn to God in prayer with sincerity of heart. And you'll quickly discover the true meaning of life itself. I find when I'm "in the spirit" I know what lifes all about. Life becomes so easy. But then when i'm not I tend to strive and just pursue money too much. work too hard. It's kinda sad. But no suicide is not the answer at all. Life's going to give everyone pain. Life is going to put everyone threw extreme stress. And when you're in that moment well if you don't know God, and have someone like him to turn to. Awwwhhh man that would suck. I think that's when people snap and they go nuts or kill themselves. Extreme stress is coming your way my friend. It's right around the bend. And when it comes hopefully you have the coping skills to handle it.

reply to post by randyvs


I am sorry if you feel my entry made you feel threat.

I was suicidal at the time during the week she went missing and was clutching at straws. I still do not know where her energy has gone to. Is she a ghost looking at us or are we ghosts discussing her?

Regarding looking ahead to the future I am in a situation where I find the concept of the day difficult to comprehend. We lie asleep in unconsciousness for a few hours and then awake to sleep again. One day we never awake. Each day is full of events but what is their significance?

How can one look forward to future days when one doesnt know if one will even awaken the next day?

I suppose that is why Alcoholics Anonymous say keep it in the day.

reply to post by dr treg

I was suicidal at the time during the week she went missing and was clutching at straws.

Finally ! The first post directed at me personally I can fully understand. Thank you ! For helping
me put these messed up feelings about you to rest. Can I please ask to know your race ? I know
how it sounds, but I think I need to identify your way with the english language. and that may help
to know. Right now, for me, you just morphed from europeon to someone with a more eastern
heritage. Help me out before I deal with one big apology I see coming.

SnF

reply to post by randyvs

It`s not about us. It`s about something greater. Who knows? Tired.

Extreme stress is coming your way my friend. It's right around the bend. And when it comes hopefully you have the coping skills to handle it.

I didn't specifically reply to you, Spartacus, because most of what you say I can fully understand and perhaps even agree with. I am replying, in toto, to whomever felt this person who is suffering is grief and wondering why and what's it all for, gets hit like he/she is being "hit" here.

Stress is coming her/his way? And what she/he has said in this time seems threatening? Come on, guys.....haven't you ever lost anyone you loved, dearly, couldn't imagine life without?

What I see here is someone who is reaching out and struggling with extreme grief, and I'm sorry, but I don't see much sympathy with that going on here. ATS is more important to you? What is your wife committed suicide, Randyvs? Don't you think you'd lash out, wonder in the same ways, etc.....? And someone want to tell this person they are out of line or that " extreme stress is headed their way?" What do you think this person is going through right now???

And to judge another for their choice to not suffer any longer, well, it isn't my cuppa tea, anyway. It's your life. It's all you have. If the suffering is more than you can bear and you have tried anything, it's surely not for me to judge your choice.

I am touched by dr. treg's wondering where his/her partner's energy is now, and know that grief is real, because of that and because she/he expresses in a very basic way, what it is to wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night without, any longer, what was like a part of you, your right arm, left leg, etc.......


I am sorry for your loss. May you find some comfort, somewhere, soon. And yes, it isn't a day at a time, it's a second at a time, and sometimes when it's really, really painful, a nanosecond at a time. Don't leave just yet. I have the feeling you are still here for some reason. I fully believe things tend to work that way.
Tetra50

In my opinion,
SUICIDE is an act of desperation.
KILLING CAN be an act of desperation.
MURDER is something completely different.

reply to post by dr treg


All considerations contemplated. I hope you find happiness Treg.

reply to post by dr treg


lol at cruel.



Godforbid any of you experience my definition of cruelty.

For some reason this prayer lessens suicidal thoughts... for me.

Daily Prayer of Resignation in Death:

My most sweet Jesus, I accept the death Thou has destined for me; with all the pains that may accompany it; I unite it to Thy death, I offer it to Thee. Thou hast died for love of me; I will die for love of Thee and to please Thee.

If some deadly thoughts still break through, I say the Jesus prayer until they pass.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

If suicide/murder is a chronic mind process... then this is how I shut it down. It works... so far

Originally posted by dr treg
reply to post by randyvs

 

I am sorry if you feel my entry made you feel threat.

I was suicidal at the time during the week she went missing and was clutching at straws. I still do not know where her energy has gone to. Is she a ghost looking at us or are we ghosts discussing her?

Whatever it may be you need to accept you are unreachable to eachother, you are in the flesh and she is not. You will have to find ways to deal with that, personally if I lost my beloved I would wait until my own death and not fall in love again and go do other stuff that would make me feel good about myself, maybe volunteering for something or just looking back on my own life and study it all in preparation for my own departure.

If you are going to make yourself believe you will be reunited you will have to learn how to control yourself more than average people need to. If you don't know what a ghost might be doing, just assume he or she is in a good place doing things they love to do.

Regarding looking ahead to the future I am in a situation where I find the concept of the day difficult to comprehend. We lie asleep in unconsciousness for a few hours and then awake to sleep again. One day we never awake. Each day is full of events but what is their significance?

Some cultures call sleeping 'dying the little death'. When I used to think about how I'm not 'there' for hours I would go nuts but now I find it comforting, afterall if you are not there you can't know about it and when you are there again there's nothing to feel bad about. You have a real possibility to find out about life which few have, I hope you stay until your ride has finished yourself and maybe you can have some contact.

How can one look forward to future days when one doesnt know if one will even awaken the next day?

I suppose that is why Alcoholics Anonymous say keep it in the day.

Because there is no other choice to assume you will be there in the future.

The key here is that it is self-destructive - if we were to call it an "affliction" then depending upon ones outlook - i.e. "us or them" they will either retaliate against soceity, or, they will retaliate against themselves.

Originally posted by dr treg
However, what I find interesting is that as I telephone the Samaritans on a regular basis to discuss my feelings of loss is that the Samaritans say that suicide is a chronic process where the mind eventually accepts it as the solution. Fiona telephoned the Samaritans the week before her death.

Who are these 'Samaritans' ... and what was she doing talking to them just before suicide?
I can't follow. Is this a religious group?

reply to post by FlyersFan


The Samaritans are a UK religious group that offers secular services for people that are in mental distress and contemplating suicide. They operate telephone helplines for people that are in crisis and need someone to talk to. Other countries have their own versions of the Samaritans that conduct similar charity work. Samaritan's Purse is another organization that focuses on raising money to assist those less fortunate around the world.

Samaritan's Purse - Canada
Samaritans - UK
Samaritan's - USA

Not sure but the OP mentioned French fishers finding his loved one, which makes me think they are posting from the UK.