Why did Jesus preach an incomplete message?

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


There are 3 other gospels other than John. We see varying teachings within each individual gospel, where one has one teaching and the others do not, so John's gospel does not define the others.

None of the gospels have the doctrine of grace in them, yet it is considered the most important and fundamental part of Christianity, and it wasn't brought into the fold until a persecutor of Christians claimed to have a vision from Jesus that only he could know was true or not.

reply to post by guitarplayer


So you'd look to stop the wars that would usher in the second coming? Now why would you do that? Why would you not want Jesus to come back and why would you go against god's word?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Yet it wasn't finished. He gave a vision to Paul afterward.

He will return as well, but the end of his cup to bear for the remission of the sins of mankind was that moment. The gospel message was the unraveling of symbol when the veil was torn from top to bottom. This is the point of letting us know about baptism and the body being the temple of God. All symbols point back to these truths. This was what Paul revealed. For instance, 1 Corinthians 10 is the scattering of the peoples in the wilderness through baptism. See this thread: Hidden Mystery of Moses

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by guitarplayer

 

The Pharisees and Sudacees worshiped Yahweh, so yes, he was calling their god (father) the devil. Where I got that idea from is the verse you cited.

edit on 28-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

You need to study the OT of how the Pharisees had perverted Gods word. That pervision came from the devil. You have a very limited view of the bible have you ever read the whole book?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Speaking of Revelation.

Luke 21
8 He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

Revelation is supposed to be Jesus speaking through John, meaning the words that John wrote down scream "I am he" in regards to Jesus.

What is one of the first things said in Revelation?

Revelation 1
3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Why do you choose to ignore Jesus' warning? Revelation fits it to the T. Let me guess, it's in the bible, therefore it must be true?

edit on 28-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

You have a valid insight into this on the surface of the argument. Many people take these perceived contradictions to say that Paul was not a messenger of the gospel message. You are also implying that John was not giving us a valid message as well. What you are really implying is that God is not capable of preserving His word. I choose to see that the Aleph Tav is complete in the last book of the Bible. And you are right about one thing: it is in the Bible and this is enough for me. If we require ourselves to subtract books and authors, then we would conclude the entire thing is suspect. I do not take this pathway.

There are seven rules to this process of rightly dividing truth. Paul used this term himself in his letters. Those seven rules allow us to verify the authenticity of each book written. Further, the letters and words of the Hebrew allow a secondary witness to the first. Additional to this, the overall message of the Bible is both consistent with Paul and with John's Revelation. From top to bottom, all 66 books are preserved and hermetically sealed. This is the way I see it.

Seven Rules of Hillel

reply to post by guitarplayer


Really now?

John 10
8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

This verse implies that Yahweh was both a thief and a liar, just like he describes the Pharisee's and Sudacee's father in John 8:44. Yahweh was before Jesus came, so he is included in this teaching.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


But it is not finished because he has yet to come back. The fact that the second coming is still in the works should bring your understanding into question.

Also, you choose not to question the bible because you believe punishment awaits you if you do.

1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

The reason people believe Jesus died is to save their souls from hell in order to gain eternal life.

Luke 17
33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it.

The whole concept of believing to preserve your life is fundamentally flawed according to Jesus.

Most scholars agree that John the apostle did not write Revelation, so it could have been anyone.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by guitarplayer

 

Really now?

John 10
8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

This verse implies that Yahweh was both a thief and a liar, just like he describes the Pharisee's and Sudacee's father in John 8:44. Yahweh was before Jesus came, so he is included in this teaching.

edit on 28-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Where does it say Yahweh?
10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
This is the way of the theif and robber to try and obtain rightesness by someother way than Christ. Like I asked before have you read the whole bible do you have any concept of what it is all about the old covenant and what it pointed to? What the tabernacel point to in the wilderness? The Christology of the old testament?

reply to post by guitarplayer


It says all that came before him, that includes Yahweh. Either he meant most or he meant exactly what he said and he says ALL that came before him.

You mean the covenant that Yahweh gave to Noah?

Genesis 9
12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come

We all know the bolded part isn't true, otherwise there would be no such thing as the new covenant. So either Yahweh lied or he wasn't an all-knowing god like he claimed.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by guitarplayer

 

It says all that came before him, that includes Yahweh. Either he meant most or he meant exactly what he said and he says ALL that came before him.

You mean the covenant that Yahweh gave to Noah?

Genesis 9
12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come

We all know the bolded part isn't true, otherwise there would be no such thing as the new covenant. So either Yahweh lied or he wasn't an all-knowing god like he claimed.

edit on 28-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

That covenant is the covenant of not flooding the world again. Has God flooded the world since Noah? Like I asked bwefore have you read the old testement or are you just using a search tool and pulling scripture out of context. Other wise you would know of the cove3nant that God Yahweh made with Abraham. Do you have a concept of that covenant?

reply to post by guitarplayer


There are five covenants, and the Old Covenant is considered the Mosaic Law, not the one given to Abraham as you say.

I did take that covenant out of context by mistake, but there have also been countless floods throughout history that have killed millions of people, so I would say he didn't keep that covenant very well.

A worldwide flood is nonsensical as it is anyways. Believing that 8 people repopulated the world to over 7 billion people in only 4,000 years is borderline delusional. It also means we're all products of incest and inbreeding.

Also, how did all the zebras end up in Africa, all the lemurs end up in Madagascar, all the kangaroos end up in Australia, etc.? The whole myth is illogical, not to mention the whole world being covered in water from only 40 days of raining.

Anyways, it seems you do not understand what the Old Covenant is because it is not the same one as the one given to Abraham. If that were the case, Abraham's seed receiving the gift would not apply anymore.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by guitarplayer

 

There are five covenants, and the Old Covenant is considered the Mosaic Law, not the one given to Abraham as you say.

I did take that covenant out of context by mistake, but there have also been countless floods throughout history that have killed millions of people, so I would say he didn't keep that covenant very well.

A worldwide flood is nonsensical as it is anyways. Believing that 8 people repopulated the world to over 7 billion people in only 4,000 years is borderline delusional. It also means we're all products of incest and inbreeding.

Also, how did all the zebras end up in Africa, all the lemurs end up in Madagascar, all the kangaroos end up in Australia, etc.? The whole myth is illogical, not to mention the whole world being covered in water from only 40 days of raining.

Anyways, it seems you do not understand what the Old Covenant is because it is not the same one as the one given to Abraham. If that were the case, Abraham's seed receiving the gift would not apply anymore.

edit on 28-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Please list all five of the old covenants. And what gift would that be? but there realy is no need to go on since you do not beleive in the bible and called God a lier because of your limited understanding of the flood that was world wide. Check different ethnic groups and see if they have an oral history of a flood.

I guess that a better question would be... Why did the early Jewish disciples of Jesus, who edited the contents of the New Testament, leave out most of the good stuff? People deciding on what messages God wanted us to remember.

reply to post by guitarplayer


Satan is a liar, not God. It just so happens you believe Satan is God. That gift would be salvation/grace.

I'm sure most cultures do have flood stories, and that can be attributed to floods worldwide throughout history, something your god promised he'd never do again.

I wonder where different skin pigments and facial features came from since we're all descended from Noah? I seriously doubt all these variations of human characteristics could have cropped up in the past 4,000 years, especially from the same lineage. What about you?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Kargun

 

Originally posted by Kargun
Also, every Knee will BOW by choice. Trust me when you hear me say, friend, when you understand how much Jesus loves you, you will gladly bow. I just pray by the time you realize it, it won't be too late.

I don't care how nice Jesus pretends to be. If somebody is sending me to an eternal hell, then they aren't worthy of getting my respect.

God doesn’t send people to Hell because He’s mad at them. He doesn’t want anyone to go there (2 Peter 3:9), so He made a full pardon available to any and all, and it’s free for the asking (Matt. 7:7-8). In effect, people send themselves to Hell by refusing His pardon. God is just and can’t overlook any sin. They all have to be paid for. If we don’t let Jesus pay the penalty for us, then we have to pay the penalty ourselves. It’s that simple.

I'm only going to address your title so as not to get caught in the fray of the thread.

Yahoshua didn't preach and incomplete message because that wasn't his purpose.He never said or portended that he was preaching a message of "religion" that was to bring peace prosperity and everyone singing Kumbaya in a hand holding circle in heaven.

He came and accomplished his purpose.The religious have a mountain of doctrines that try to justify "their" religion with yet that isn't The Truth because no one knows what the Truth the whole Truth nothing but the Truth is about.

It should be very obvious he wasn't starting a new religion at all.He made very sure no one (including his disciples...even when they thought they did) knew what he was talking about.The people didn't come to hear him preach they wanted the miracles and food.

The point is he had no message to preach... he was the message.It wasn't a doctrine to be believed and lived or to hell you go! or if you did you get an eternal pat on the head and a mansion in a cube city floating in outer space.What he did he made no viable attempt to explain it.There was no reason to.He'd have had more success teaching general relativity to the ants on Mt.Olivet.

Yes ..he said some very profound things ... and many of them were just plain common sense.However they weren't just one dimensional morals and ethics.Everything he was meaning went solidly over everyone's head and still does to this day.... for a very good reason.They can't be understood.Studying or praying or meditating or channeling or ascending or reincarnating over and over will do nothing to know what he said.

The new covenant is very simple..It's NEW!!! surprise.It isn't a methodology or doctrine or creed or anything anyone has made of it.It has ZERO to do with religion .It is only knowing.No one will be taught by studying the "word" or any kind of "work".It is ALL by impartation (by grace) through the process called salvation.

God is not asking permission of anyone to do this.He is not pining like a love sick 12 year old for anyone to love him and choose him.Yes it begins with belief (by grace through faith) however it does not end there but faith will end.That is clearly in the scriptures.Paul knew it because he experienced it.He knew faith must come first though.

Salvation is for ALL mankind.Not just the elitist who think they alone are chosen because THEY "chose".God alone chooses and he has chosen ....everyone.

That is the encapsulation of what Yahoshua said.He was not trying to teach it and hope everyone would understand his "teachings.He clearly stated I have a purpose and I will do it.When it was complete he said ...it is done...and it was.Was the "thing he came to do done... yes...however the "thing" it accomplished is something beyond comprehension....Salvation for all mankind.That's the New good news.To try to methodize the what, who how when where and why is just religion..vanity of vanity..absolutely meaningless.

Did Yahoshua preach an incomplete message ...no...only one that can't be understood..... only experienced.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

.

None of the gospels have the doctrine of grace in them, yet it is considered the most important and fundamental part of Christianity, and it wasn't brought into the fold until a persecutor of Christians claimed to have a vision from Jesus that only he could know was true or not.

edit on 28-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Well all of the Gospels are the story of how grace was made possible through the sacrifice of Jesus, and as for evidence in the Bible for the doctrine of grace Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6, Romans 3:10-28, Galatians 2:16, 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 3:5, Romans 9:30-33, Philippians 3:9, and on and on.

The word “grace” appears 170 times in the English translation of the Bible, 37 of them in the Old Testament. Of the remaining 133, only four are contained in the gospels and they all refer to the Lord Jesus (Luke 2:40, John 1:14, 16, 17). The Book of Acts contains 10 appearances, and 2 others can be found in the Book of Revelation (Rev. 1:4, Rev. 22:21) where they essentially open and close the book. That leaves 117 references to grace in the various Epistles.

As it’s used in the New Testament, grace is clearly a word that is meant for the Church. It comes from the Greek word charis, which is defined as “the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues.”

Much has been written about the different approaches taken by Peter and Paul in presenting the Gospel of Grace to their audiences. Some claim that Peter didn’t mention having our sins forgiven by the Lord’s sacrifice but instead preached a message of repentance and baptism.


To read more gracethrufaith.com...

Originally posted by Rex282
I'm only going to address your title so as not to get caught in the fray of the thread.

Yahoshua didn't preach and incomplete message because that wasn't his purpose.He never said or portended that he was preaching a message of "religion" that was to bring peace prosperity and everyone singing Kumbaya in a hand holding circle in heaven.

He came and accomplished his purpose.The religious have a mountain of doctrines that try to justify "their" religion with yet that isn't The Truth because no one knows what the Truth the whole Truth nothing but the Truth is about.

It should be very obvious he wasn't starting a new religion at all.He made very sure no one (including his disciples...even when they thought they did) knew what he was talking about.The people didn't come to hear him preach they wanted the miracles and food.

The point is he had no message to preach... he was the message.It wasn't a doctrine to be believed and lived or to hell you go! or if you did you get an eternal pat on the head and a mansion in a cube city floating in outer space.What he did he made no viable attempt to explain it.There was no reason to.He'd have had more success teaching general relativity to the ants on Mt.Olivet.

Yes ..he said some very profound things ... and many of them were just plain common sense.However they weren't just one dimensional morals and ethics.Everything he was meaning went solidly over everyone's head and still does to this day.... for a very good reason.They can't be understood.Studying or praying or meditating or channeling or ascending or reincarnating over and over will do nothing to know what he said.

The new covenant is very simple..It's NEW!!! surprise.It isn't a methodology or doctrine or creed or anything anyone has made of it.It has ZERO to do with religion .It is only knowing.No one will be taught by studying the "word" or any kind of "work".It is ALL by impartation (by grace) through the process called salvation.

God is not asking permission of anyone to do this.He is not pining like a love sick 12 year old for anyone to love him and choose him.Yes it begins with belief (by grace through faith) however it does not end there but faith will end.That is clearly in the scriptures.Paul knew it because he experienced it.He knew faith must come first though.

Salvation is for ALL mankind.Not just the elitist who think they alone are chosen because THEY "chose".God alone chooses and he has chosen ....everyone.

That is the encapsulation of what Yahoshua said.He was not trying to teach it and hope everyone would understand his "teachings.He clearly stated I have a purpose and I will do it.When it was complete he said ...it is done...and it was.Was the "thing he came to do done... yes...however the "thing" it accomplished is something beyond comprehension....Salvation for all mankind.That's the New good news.To try to methodize the what, who how when where and why is just religion..vanity of vanity..absolutely meaningless.

Did Yahoshua preach an incomplete message ...no...only one that can't be understood..... only experienced.

edit on 29-8-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-8-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

Well put

reply to post by Rex282

The religious have a mountain of doctrines that try to justify "their" religion with yet that isn't The Truth because no one knows what the Truth the whole Truth nothing but the Truth is about.

You are saying that God is powerless to reveal the truth, since so far no one has picked up on it.
There is a revealed truth and we know it through Jesus who was filled with that same thing that created the universe, and was fully capable of creating a religion that is sufficient for the purposes of mankind.
I think that you are playing the role of the serpent in the garden, where he was telling Eve that there is more truth out there but God is holding you back from finding it.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Everything Jesus did was exactly how and when it had to be done, remember he was God as well, he knew exactly what had to be done and when. Jesus allowed the torture and death to take place, he could have stopped or not gone through it if he chose too, it was his choice out of love for us. There are at least 44 prophecies about Jesus and probably more that were fulfilled, everything he did and needed to do was complete. You may not think by your opinion or view point that some things weren't fulfilled but then God always has mankind take part in his overall plan of redemption kind of like a father lets his children take part in things. The Apostles did their part as we do today in spreading the good news of Gods Word and salvation through Jesus Christ.