Thoughts about people claiming alien contact

Well, this is probably one of the most problematic crux elements of the field in my view: this idea that everything is either dreaming or waking, physical or fake, and that these polarities sum up all that exists and there is nothing between them. It is this overly-polarized model about the spectrum of reality and human perception that is most likely to keep our people from getting a clue, I suspect.

We all have the capacity to distinguish between dreams and when we are awake.

As far as I know.

I wasn't abducted suddenly (ala Walton or something). I suspect those kinds of cases are a little different. I had a so-called Kundalini rising, which made the whole realm of awareness, levels-of-reality, degrees-of-identity, and a wide spectrum of 'other entities' an issue. UFOlogy stuff is really just one little piece in there (because it is just one piece of a larger universe). So the sudden-abduction people may not have the more complex spectrum of experience, and those cases are probably much easier to evaluate -- particularly in the area of psychology -- as a result.

I had a lot of cognitive dissonance when things began changing with me (as noted for me it was a spectrum where reality just started getting anomalous, it seemed). I intentionally called everything a dream if it wasn't "normal," even if it happened while I was wide awake. To my mind there were only two settings: real, or dream. So, if it wasn't the objective normal world, it was a dream, period.

It actually took me a while to work through that and finally force a little more "validation" into how I modeled my experiences. I used it as a point of denial because no matter what was going on with me, if I could categorize it as 'dream' and 'archetype' and such, then I could tell myself it wasn't important, don't worry about it, etc.

it would be apparent if somebody were unable to distinguish between dreams and reality

Sure. It is usually apparent within about three paragraphs of any internet posting, at the most, in my observation... sometimes within about a sentence LOL.

I have known borderline schizophrenics for whom it was more subtle and you usually had to know them better before it became clear that they were blending Star Trek and the local Priest and their favorite fantasy book in with their life. Some people "pass" better than others on the surface.

But even those that I've known were mostly flexible where they _could_ be; there is a difference between 'having thin boundaries of reality' versus being completely delusional.

My observation is that human memory is incredibly unreliable and creative across the board, even for seemingly normal people, even about totally non-esoteric things. It's hardly surprising it's an issue with this topic given it's an issue with everything else, and this one is very individualized and destabilizes a lot of fundamental psych anchors.

Through all of your experiences were you ever unclear when you were fully conscious during the day and dreaming?

No.

Although as noted above, these things are probably less polarized than they seem.

I have to say that with John Mack , you only know what he tells you. There's nothing that validates his claims. Yes he was a Harvard psychiatrist,. Is that supposed to imply if he of all people found it to be true it is true? No. His reasoning of what verified it to him was he was hearing about the same stories from people who could not possibly know each other. Says who? Btw there was a patient who fooled Mack.

Some facts first:
When a person or victim reports a story to one of these ufologists. They get back to you with recommendations you find one of their therapists

These therapists belong to a network, that share notes. They prefer you get hypnotized.

You are warned not to tell your family about this because you will be ridiculed

They will assign a buddy , like a friend you can talk with.

You are strongly encouraged to pursue the belief your experience was indeed alien related.


I will get to the point if what you asked now. I hope it answers how a person is treated once they reveal it. I've heard of no other person say they got what I got.

I wrote a letter to Mack with an experience. I said I didn't think it was aliens but the symptoms matched up. Now I don't really care who believes this, but very shortly after I sent it things began to change. In fact I changed my mind about it and had no intention of persuing it. Some new friends of ours who came into my life after the letter, began pressuring me to get hypnotized. About what? I said nothing about aliens. They didn't either, they just said get hypnosis to improve the quality of your life. They said they have a great person I can go to. I said no but they didn't give up. They were the most intrusive people I have ever met. Almost a year after the letter my husband said something odd to me. Out of the blue he says " it's aliens". I asked what he meant, what is aliens. He said aliens come for you and I brought them , blah blah . The rest was utter nonsense I would rather not repeat. After that he was on my case about hypnosis. I said I don't want to, he demanded I do it. I never did.

I wished the hell I never wrote that letter. It destroyed my life. I was terrorised. Where is this part about don't tell your family? Well they told me. I'd rather not say the rest of it. Btw the letter was not left around where others could read it to play a trick on me. I thought about that, thought of everything.


I concluded that there are no alien abductions that they ( not aliens) want us to think that.
I reported an ' alien encounter' and it was not they will come along and shut you up but the complete opposite, they come along to encourage it. Pull you in. No idea why.

violet
...they come along to encourage it. Pull you in. No idea why.

Violet, thank you for sharing your experience. It is shameful that everybody wanted to push their opinions on you instead of just listening to your concerns. I really appreciate you speaking out about it.

RedCairo
Although as noted above, these things are probably less polarized than they seem.

Rough "Awarness" Spectrum:

Classical Dreaming --> False Awakening --> Lucid Dreaming --> "Out of Body" Claims --> (Hypnosis, Meditation, 'Delta Waves + awake') --> Hypnogagic --> ... --> Exercising

I agree with your polarization comments. I simply meant that individuals are typically able to distinguish between classical dreaming and all states to the right. Otherwise the categories wouldn't exist and there wouldn't be any real questions about the experience. Classical dreams are notorious for being wacky. There must be additional elements beyond the unusual subject nature of the experience such as its impact on the nervous system and sensory input. This stimulation forms a clear demarcation between classical dreaming. Even lucid dreaming is categorized by differences in awareness and how the information is processed by the brain. I'm sure there are variations within the classical dreams category, but everything to the right represents a significant jump in conscious awareness.

I believe the issue of memory recall over a long term period as it is exposed to pressure from the world view is a separate issue.

compressedFusion
Rough "Awareness" Spectrum:
Classical Dreaming --> False Awakening --> Lucid Dreaming --> "Out of Body" Claims --> (Hypnosis, Meditation, 'Delta Waves + awake') --> Hypnogagic --> ... --> Exercising

I probably wouldn't classify the awareness spectrum like that, but this is probably because I'm unusually familiar with these compared to most, and I don't consider it a linear sequence, or necessarily even belonging to the same sequence.

There is a very fundamental difference in the paradigm-model which our experience is based on is all. I don't have time/space to explain, but am improving it in the new version of the case study so if I remember to post a ref you could see it later (though it will probably bore you to tears if so, it is not written to be entertaining but to be true and it's non-fiction, so, yawn).

That actually wasn't what I meant anyway (my bad for not articulating it better).

Let us do a thought experiment for a moment and say that there is a fully autonomous, consistent world just like "here." It happens to be populated with people some call aliens. It is not the SAME 'here' as what we know probably because in a physics sense the sine-wave beat-pattern is just slightly offset from ours.

But the experience there is very close to ours: the same inasmuch as it's also spanning the same physical-reality frequencies our body knows, but different inasmuch as some % of our body was left 'here' as an anchor so the mental capacity and physical strength of the % of us 'there' is a bit less than complete. We operate there similar to here however and we can be fully aware of our environ, even fully aware of the one 'back home' as well.

When you're there, are you awake or asleep?

When you're there, is it real or a dream?

Do we judge this based on whether you are 'wide-awake-aware' there?
Based on whether your-catatonic-body% is still here?
Based on whether you have physical-symptoms after as if your body, at least, experienced it as real?
Based on whether your 'unique' experience is echoed by unrelated others to suggest you didn't invent it?

Do we measure this solely based on your body here, or based on your experience there?

What does your body have to do with it, if it can be bilocated? What does your mind have to do with it, if you can be wide awake, aware of that reality, aware that isn't THIS one, yet have "the % of you which is still here" appear to be asleep?

Obviously in this thought-experiment I am referring to the more common 'interaction between species' and not to the more assumedly fully-physical experiences that are so famous (e.g. Walton).

reply to post by violet


That is a very interesting recounting Violet. Thank you for sharing.

Here is what I think is going on going off a hypothesis I'm on about currently.

IF, we actually live in a multi-verse with countless unseen non-human intelligences living right along side us - primarily unseen and unnoticed...

And when they started doing nuclear testing in remote areas - which prompted these beings to manifest themselves and see what the heck was killing them in the parallel reality...

That would not be something scientist would want the general public to be aware of. They wish to test and utilize their new sciences. If it was to get out, that nuclear testing doesn't just affect our space, but their unseen space too. People might just have demanded back then - stop all this testing. We are killing them. It's much easier to convince us they don't exist as part of our natural world. They are separate. Not a part of this world, but extraterrestrial - belonging to another world. It's a justification, to continue on doing whatever it is they wish to do - despite the fact it might be destroying thing/beings we are not aware of.

It's just a thought - theory. Where is Skinwalker ranch? In the desert near to locations nuclear testing have taken place, correct?

Very interesting, nonetheless. This is one of my favorite threads ongoing at ATS right now.

CdT

Violet: What a creepy account!

There is a state of energy (for lack of a better word) in a person which can lead to the seeming impossible "degree of correspondence and coincidence" ("synchronicity") with outer-reality that you describe, and even vastly more. Anything emotional particularly negative can make it much stronger and downright creepy. I used to call it "Instant Karma" and "convenient coincidence." It is a degree of reflection of self, the underlying lesson being that objective reality is not objective at all, and most people live in ignorant bliss about that. I suppose that is one possibillity... but not the only one.

The other is what amounts to a conspiracy involving your friends and your husband, all to try and convince you that you were abducted and to undergo hypnosis. Let us say that your husband was influenced by the friends and so take him out of the equation. Taking this seriously for the moment, it is not impossible that your 'friends' were merely recruiting for clandestine research subjects and this is a perfect way to get one. And of course, it's possible that the experience which began this, was of that source to begin with, so they'd know about it.

I'm not sure whether it can be attributed to Mack and his network or not. More likely it seems, even if it were triggered by the private letter, it could have been surveillance. Whitley Streiber had a compuserve forum back in 94-95 when I was participating in the field and he was constantly ranting about not getting his mail, about people telling him of things they sent that he didn't get, or got very late, or he'd get mail and it was obvious half had been opened, and things like that. I'm sure that is probably the case for most high profile people in the field.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth

I've several times considered writing a fiction novel about a close parallel world that is being affected by some of the technologies in our world, and their desperate attempt to reach us and convince us to change, while they still have time. I didn't have nukes in mind, but things like Microwaves for example.

Seems to me our politicized science often doesn't recognize even the impact that things have on our own people, never mind anything else that might exist, even if we did know about it.

Our science 'officially' fails to find sentience even in our people, and definitely not in anything else, 'here.' And when you measure "collections of vibrating energy," what part of that looks like "sentience" if it doesn't have a conversation with you? We could already be measuring much of the larger universe and have no idea.

reply to post by RedCairo

Thanks for your reply.

I thought about Macks mail being intercepted. I was so secretive how I posted it. You're right it's not his fault.

I took my husband out of the equation after it freaked me out. It was very clear these people influenced him. I know it sounds crazy but it always felt like they did not meet me by chance, that it was planned.

I telephone Budd Hopkins and his opinion was it was a conspiracy.
I never did figure out why. It was so bizarre. This was 1998 and its taken me until about two years ago to get over it. Still though I don't ever look back and think I imagined it. I kept a lot of notes, drawings etc on it and some of the documents I wish I had scanned, a letter from budd. One was the facts I put in my post I received from the ufologists.

Unfortunately in 2010 I was hospitalized and as a result my home was torn apart to renovate for me being disabled. The notes went missing.

I was left thinking if this is really related to aliens or other unseen entities they are nasty. It really scared me. It was hard to post this but I was ok with it. I don't care anymore. I tried posting it a few times and had a panic attack. I would shake and cry but now I don't.

May I ask why Dr. Steven Greer is not well liked?

Onslaught2996
There is no such thing as alien contact and all the evidence is only stories not facts.


Why have thousands if not millions of images/footage of so called alien craft yet not one valid piece of images/footage of the occupants.

Why is there absolutely no evidence for these visitations when every so called paranormal experience has something to back it up.

I want evidence not stories. Just because one Harvard professor went nuts does not mean anything because I can show you two other Harvard professors who can explain the what is happening. Not too mention scientists, military men or doctors who can refute everything about aliens being here with facts.

Why is their opinion not taken as serious as some nutjob like John Leir or Dr Mack. Is it because they go against what you believe?

edit on 27-8-2013 by Onslaught2996 because: (no reason given)

To be honest, the fact that you aren't able to use TO and TOO correctly in a sentence, says a lot. At least the individuals who are sharing their experiences are able to do so in a somewhat grammatically correct fashion. Why bother responding to this thread if you've got it all figured out?

Well, to be fair, if decent English were a requirement for discernment, we'd need to vote half the forum off the virtual island, heh.