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Thoughts about people claiming alien contact

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posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 06:18 PM
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I have been lurking on this site for a few years. I have focused exclusively on the Alien/UFO section. Over time, I came to realize that I'm not as interested in Ufology as I am with how we interact and treat each other when dealing with this fringe topic. I believe that people claiming contact are treated harshly by society far beyond the extraordinary nature of their claims.

I would like to compile a list of events that back up my beliefs. I wish I would have started earlier but hind sight is 20/20. I was hoping the community could provide their input on cases that either support or contradict my belief.

I will start with a few major cases:

Dr. John Mack
en.wikipedia.org...
"It was the first time in Harvard's history that a tenured professor was subjected to such an investigation."

He certainly made money off of this, but it's clear to me that he sacrificed quite a bit to share his opinions so publicly.


Officer Dale Spaur and the Portage County UFO Chase
en.wikipedia.org...
"Spaur absorbed the brunt of the publicity in the case, and had the most tragic outcome"

This is a typical case in my opinion. It brought him nothing but misery.

Betty and Barney Hill
en.wikipedia.org...
I think Barney was affected the most by the aftermath.

Captain Terauchi and JAL Flight 1628
en.wikipedia.org...

He was grounded for talking to the press and then received a desk job. Perhaps that is a reasonable outcome and fully justified. However, I bring it up because it is symbolic of the fear rumored to exist among pilots when it comes to reporting UFO sightings. I believe that fear is an indicator of how poorly we treat people.

I invite you to share your favorite case or experience and discuss how it pertains to the topic of social treatment. My goal is to compile a list. Therefore, a brief response would be ideal, but feel free to provide details as well.




posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by compressedFusion
 


In regards to some weird close sighting/CE3 encounters, these are good examples:

Broad Haven School UFO, Wales 1977:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Westhall School UFO incident, Australia 1966:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And of course the Ariel School incident from Zimbabwe in 1994 (John Mack was heavily involved in the case):
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I certainly wouldn't jump up and think aliens without thinking it through, but these cases give food for thought. If anything I think these cases prove there are still mysterious things going on that we don't yet fully comprehend.
edit on 27-8-2013 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by compressedFusion
 



Ufologists (believers) have always portrayed the social castigation of "officials" as a means of controlling information about government knowledge. Disbelievers interpret this behavior as a preventative measure against the public hysteria cycle of assumption and reality.

Though I always garnered the utmost respect for Mack, his outward opinion denied any material reality of the phenomenon. Something I could never fully agree with. Since there are both physical and psycho-spiritual aspects to these and other startling events, I would resist developing any opinion based on black and white thinking processes, for the sake of discovery.

As for the so-called disbelievers, I find it disingenuous that real disbelievers would waste a moment their precious sensibilities trying to convince forum Trekkies of their presumed delusions. Rather, I see them (disbelievers) as vocal discontents, struggling to come to terms with their fear of extraterrestrials.

Why? Because it is illogical to refute anything that is false.



edit on 27-8-2013 by g2v12 because: grammar



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 09:49 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'm a contactee. Or, rather - I had a very profound experience which manifested itself in an attempted abduction scenario. I still to this day wonder about what I went through that night. I already had a pre-existing mental condition, so I'm pretty well debunked and discredited on that fact alone for many people.

I've shared my experience with close friends and oddly enough, I'm not alone in sightings and experiences. Maybe it's because of the company I tend to find myself close with. Online I've only spoken of it once and the inquiries were very hospitable and good natured, but I have seen some folks go through a much rougher time of it all.

It's saddening when someone is reaching out to try and find some answers and they're ridiculed immediately and ganged up on. It's far less suspicious when a pilot is grounded because of possible stress induced hallucinations that might interfere with safety protocol, but when an average civilian steps forward and is silenced into submission I've always wondered why it is some people can't accept an experience outside of their own.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'm a contactee. Or, rather - I had a very profound experience which manifested itself in an attempted abduction scenario. I still to this day wonder about what I went through that night. I already had a pre-existing mental condition, so I'm pretty well debunked and discredited on that fact alone for many people.

I've shared my experience with close friends and oddly enough, I'm not alone in sightings and experiences. Maybe it's because of the company I tend to find myself close with. Online I've only spoken of it once and the inquiries were very hospitable and good natured, but I have seen some folks go through a much rougher time of it all.

It's saddening when someone is reaching out to try and find some answers and they're ridiculed immediately and ganged up on. It's far less suspicious when a pilot is grounded because of possible stress induced hallucinations that might interfere with safety protocol, but when an average civilian steps forward and is silenced into submission I've always wondered why it is some people can't accept an experience outside of their own.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



Would enjoy hearing your story, either here or privately. Although admittedly, I would not likely share mine in the open forum mode.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 10:00 PM
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For the John Mack case, as well as the Betty and Barney Hill case, it quite difficult to believe in(well for me anyways). I have never really been into abduction cases due to it being rather hard to prove, or believe in ether way.
However, John Mack getting investigated may not have been because of his research.

As for Officer Dale Spaur and the Portage County UFO Chase cases, it sounds legit, especially with it being cop telling the story, as well as the plane incident since both profession require psychological checks as a prerequisite.

Ufo's are much more easier to believe in(alien or not) cause they can be seen by multiple people, although descriptions vary.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 10:05 PM
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There is no such thing as alien contact and all the evidence is only stories not facts.


Why have thousands if not millions of images/footage of so called alien craft yet not one valid piece of images/footage of the occupants.

Why is there absolutely no evidence for these visitations when every so called paranormal experience has something to back it up.

I want evidence not stories. Just because one Harvard professor went nuts does not mean anything because I can show you two other Harvard professors who can explain the what is happening. Not too mention scientists, military men or doctors who can refute everything about aliens being here with facts.

Why is their opinion not taken as serious as some nutjob like John Leir or Dr Mack. Is it because they go against what you believe?
edit on 27-8-2013 by Onslaught2996 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by compressedFusion
 


I appreciate the Op. OPen discussion in this manner is why I stay here at ATS.
edit on 27-8-2013 by antar because: oops



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by compressedFusion
 


OT-what is that little bead on your finger in the avatar. Just curious.

Any significance?

Thanks...



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 10:57 PM
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Thank you to everybody that has responded
. General Eyes, I would like to thank you for sharing your personal account.


Originally posted by Onslaught2996
...
I want evidence not stories. Just because one Harvard professor went nuts does not mean anything because I can show you two other Harvard professors who can explain the what is happening. Not too mention scientists, military men or doctors who can refute everything about aliens being here with facts.

Why is their opinion not taken as serious as some nutjob like John Leir or Dr Mack. Is it because they go against what you believe?


Onslaught, I appreciate your thoughts on contact claims.

I'm specifically looking for how it pertains to social perception and how we treat each other (not the veracity of the claims themselves). Put plainly, I'm not as interested in the claims of contact. I'm more interested in how we are treating people that claim they have had contact or work in that field. My point with Dr. Mack was that I believe it was an example where he was treated poorly because of the fact that he didn't believe his patients were suffering from some type of psychosis.

We expect scrutiny in the academic field. However, I believe there is a bias that goes beyond prudent academic skepticism when applied to this topic. I believe the closed door inquiry of Dr. Mack illustrates this point. It was pure coincidence that he found out about it. Einstein's theory of relativity was met with a lot of resistance. The physics community resisted it for decades. However, they didn't worry about their reputations when discussing it.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Outrageo
reply to post by compressedFusion
 


OT-what is that little bead on your finger in the avatar. Just curious.

Any significance?

Thanks...


It is a microballon used as a fuel cell in inertial confinement fusion.

en.wikipedia.org...

I put it up to evoke several concepts. Here are a few

macro / micro fractal
knowledge through observation
confinement of knowledge
our progress and ego ["kein fehler im system" which is meant as irony (a concrete poem by a German poet Gomringer)]

kein fehler im system means "no mistake in the system". One version consists of progressing syntactical errors some of which are clever errors resulting in a play on words.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by compressedFusion
 


Aliens are just demons



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 07:56 AM
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As for the so-called disbelievers, I find it disingenuous that real disbelievers would waste a moment their precious sensibilities trying to convince forum Trekkies of their presumed delusions. Rather, I see them (disbelievers) as vocal discontents, struggling to come to terms with their fear of extraterrestrials.

Agree completely. There is a huge amount of fear and I usually suspect that people who have nothing better to do than spend their time hanging out in areas just to call people liars about it, are probably people with similar experience who have been psychologically destabilized by it and are trying desperately to keep it under the radar of their awareness.

That situation in any area of life tends to have what I call the splinter effect: where it hurts to touch it, but you just can't quit messing with it in frustration.

Of course, they may have different psychological problems that have nothing to do with such experiences, but the same end result, I suppose.

*

I wrote a case study in 1995 for a therapist friend, about a couple very weird years of my life (which included interaction with identities some refer to as aliens), and among other things on this topic, it says:


...Not so we can learn "a truth about gods or aliens or [check one]," but so we can learn a truth about people. All the strange glamor of the esoteric experiences aside, they are foremost a study of humanity, of individuals. Without those individuals, there is no study of this field possible. Whether they are treated like liars or lunatics from the skeptical side, or like victims or chosen ones from the believers' side, none of those approaches are conducive to getting unaffected, honest data, none of them are fair to the individual, and none provide an open environment for learning anything new.


As I recall, Dr. Jacques Vallee's interest in UFOlogy originally came from the number of techs working aerial monitoring and surveillance who saw / recorded (in various technologies) all kinds of things but everybody was hiding it, deleting it, not mentioning it, because it would hurt their jobs. When he started realizing how common this was he realized there was something going on. This is my fuzzy recall of the story in any case.
edit on 28-8-2013 by RedCairo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 09:18 AM
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This is an interesting thread, OP!

Just to add that there are a lot (and I mean a lot) of people out there (I m talking about this side of the pond) that have experienced/witnessed something.

Even discounting all those cases that can be attributed to mental illness, sleep paralysis, alchoolism, misinterpretations and natural phenomena (and so on), we still have lots of puzzling stuff to investigate.
Some of the experiences/events defy conventional thinking, our known level of technology or our understanding of the reality.

The vast majority aren´t reported due to several factors: people just dont bother to do so; people incorporate those experiences/events into their conscience the best way they can; people avoid being ridicularized and tagged as nuts; the autorities aren´t interested in the subject (this is the case of my country), etc.

The UFO phenomena and its ramifications (abductions, CE´s, sightings) is a worldwide phenomenon and it is lasting for decades (long before we had computers, cars, nukes or jet aircraft).

One must deal this phenomenon with an open mind and take as much information as possible.



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 12:10 PM
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When it comes to UFO's, encounters with aliens, abductions, etc. I do my very best to accept that the person involved does believe they saw something or experienced something. I don't personally believe the stories, but it isn't my job in life to pass judgement on any person.

I don't have the knowledge to tell anyone that they did or did not experience what they claim. Until I see something with my own eyes to make that connection, or bond in commonality with one who has already had such an experience, I can't openly call out anyone as crazy or a hoaxer, or worse, but I can't blindly agree that the experience was indeed an encounter with an alien life. .



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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A few points to consider. When Galileo said the Earth revolved around the Sun he came close to being burned
at the stake for his heretical remarks which opposed the Church's world view. Many during the Middle Ages
were in fact burned at the stake for communicating with demons and other entities which were not allowed.
Today some put aliens in the same category as demons and imply you need a psychiatrist or exorcist if
you communicate with them. These guardians of the 'real world' are the ones most guilty of delusion. The
assumption that we all live in the same world with the same reality, is just that, an assumption - there is no
absolute provable reality existent at all time and if you could prove one to exist it would have already changed
- in real time all things change. Say there are 10 billion people in the world, all exist in slightly different space
and each and everyone of them sees reality slightly differently - no one exists in exactly the same world.
To some aliens are real; to some they can't exist. Who are we to judge the ultimate nature of man, aliens,
or the universe?



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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People who claim alien contact are, of course, opening themselves to public scrutiny and ridicule.

Not just modern times, but throughout history, whenever someone goes against the believed status quo, they have been subject to such mockery, and in the past, even death and imprisonment.



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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It is always possible that people claiming such things are all deluded, however, this will require that we label so many people with that -- throughout time historically, throughout cultures worldwide -- that at that point, even if it was delusion, it would still be a fascinating anomaly in need of explanation and worth exploring.

I will tell you something from my own experience, though.

When I began having such things in my life, I had spent my life until not long before then as a skeptic, especially about UFO stuff. I mocked it. (I was a hypnotist for a long time. I used UFO Abductees as fabulous warm-up joke material in talks to groups. I used to go to psychic faires to experiment on the moon-eyed batwings as I called the newagerbils who attended them. I'm pretty sure it's some kind of black-irony that I ended up in that group later on.)

When this started in my life, I thought it was bizarre and hilarious and sheer imagination, and I wrote my friends letters and emails about how completely bizarre my psychology was getting (which is the only reason I had much of it documented to write a case study about it a couple of years later). I even contemplated more than once, if I was going to be insane, couldn't I pick a format that I didn't find embarrassing? That didn't make me sound like a moron to anybody I respected? I mean surely there are many ways to be nuts, so I considered it psychologically interesting to wonder, why did my mind choose that particular form of insanity? There are so many. I didn't even believe in it!

I'd had what in the East they call "a kundalini experience" not long before. My entire reality was radically messed up for a couple of years -- this topic was really just one minor thing in the middle of everything else. Which is one reason I find this interesting because I believe that the "archetypal" element, the "physical" element, and the "metaphysical" element, are all on a spectrum our culture doesn't yet understand.

Oh anyway, I was going to talk about my experience with people claiming such things:

At one point I dared seek out an online forum (CompuServe back then) where "lunatics talk about this stuff" as I thought of it at the time. There was a major skeptic on this one forum, he was smart and very critical, but he wasn't one of those stupid sorts which are so common on the modern internet. In offense-as-defense I guess, I started writing up my accounts, based on my letters to friends with that stuff, and sending them directly to this guy. I guess I figured if someone was going to slaughter me socially I should just get it over with. He was a really brilliant guy, a complex game programmer who was crazy rich. He was critical, but he wasn't an idiot about it, and he asked a lot of hard questions that were good questions and really helped me think about it -- I needed someone objective, who wouldn't just dismiss it, but who thought more like I did, but wasn't influenced by the experience. Eventually after he'd studied UFOlogy for quite some time, he radically changed his opinion on the topic, and then he started an experiment that I took up too:

When meeting new people, converse normally. And then just drop into the conversation something about UFOs, aliens, whatever, something that totally validates it and makes clear you believe it, totally serious, but then just drop it and move on, and don't go back there.

And we both had the same experience. People would have a major cognitive dissonance -- us, obviously sane and intelligent; the topic, obviously insane and stupid; and then some of them start following you. They want to get a private word with you. IRONICALLY often THE VERY PEOPLE who were the most scoffing socially when you originally said something.

And they finally get you private and they have to tell you about things like:

* The time when they and their wife woke at up 3am to the man's mom standing at the foot of his bed saying she loved him -- and then disappeared. 30 minutes later they get a call she was killed in a car accident half an hour before.

* The time they drove direct to their mom's house with the whole family for thanksgiving and they left at 8am, it was a 3 hour drive, and they got there just before midnight and they have no freaking idea WTH happened.

* The time they woke up with a giant fat scar on their head that wasn't there when they went to sleep and was totally impossible to have gotten -- healed! -- in that short a time even if they sleptwalked or something.

* The time they had to have their doctor testify to the Air Force they'd never had eye surgery as they hadn't but showed signs of LASIK before it even was known/existed for us. They did have a weird "suddenly better vision" day once when young when they quit wearing glasses.

They're serious. They're not trying to play you. They've wanted to tell someone who'll believe them, but whose mind they respect, for years or decades. It's been eating at them.

It's everywhere.



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by RedCairo

As for the so-called disbelievers, I find it disingenuous that real disbelievers would waste a moment their precious sensibilities trying to convince forum Trekkies of their presumed delusions. Rather, I see them (disbelievers) as vocal discontents, struggling to come to terms with their fear of extraterrestrials.

Agree completely. There is a huge amount of fear and I usually suspect that people who have nothing better to do than spend their time hanging out in areas just to call people liars about it, are probably people with similar experience who have been psychologically destabilized by it and are trying desperately to keep it under the radar of their awareness.

That situation in any area of life tends to have what I call the splinter effect: where it hurts to touch it, but you just can't quit messing with it in frustration.

Of course, they may have different psychological problems that have nothing to do with such experiences, but the same end result, I suppose.

*

I wrote a case study in 1995 for a therapist friend, about a couple very weird years of my life (which included interaction with identities some refer to as aliens), and among other things on this topic, it says:


...Not so we can learn "a truth about gods or aliens or [check one]," but so we can learn a truth about people. All the strange glamor of the esoteric experiences aside, they are foremost a study of humanity, of individuals. Without those individuals, there is no study of this field possible. Whether they are treated like liars or lunatics from the skeptical side, or like victims or chosen ones from the believers' side, none of those approaches are conducive to getting unaffected, honest data, none of them are fair to the individual, and none provide an open environment for learning anything new.


As I recall, Dr. Jacques Vallee's interest in UFOlogy originally came from the number of techs working aerial monitoring and surveillance who saw / recorded (in various technologies) all kinds of things but everybody was hiding it, deleting it, not mentioning it, because it would hurt their jobs. When he started realizing how common this was he realized there was something going on. This is my fuzzy recall of the story in any case.
edit on 28-8-2013 by RedCairo because: (no reason given)



Would like to hear more about your experiences myself. What did you mean by "identities"?






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