Make everything 'Free': A Voluntegalitarian System (utopia)

Originally posted by alpha888
Never seen a communist/socialist stand beside a poor person after being elected unless the peasant were dead
or behind bars.
First thing they do is make a police state and keep the peasants as far away as possible, after disarming them.
Central banks is a communist invention.
Communism just another system to take wealth and give to a few at the top..
No discussion needed, read some real history books.

The system OP is suggesting eliminates the concept of "poor". It is neither communism or socialism. In fact, the idea of completely eliminating currency is something that has never even been attempted on a large scale.

Of course the plan needs a lot of work, but since sharing this concept with the ATS community almost 2 years ago (with hardly any support at all), I've seen many people come along with similar ideas that seem to originate within themselves. To me this is a very good sign of things to come. It shows that the Orwellien indoctrination practiced in the west is starting to lose its effect and people are waking up to the fact that the way we are doing things just doesn't make since anymore.

I would think we would live like animals then... they don't have cash.
Utopia dose not exist.

Originally posted by alpha888
I would think we would live like animals then... they don't have cash.
Utopia dose not exist.

We live like animals now. But you are correct in that Utopia doesn't exist... yet. But isn't it the goal of every society? Otherwise, what is it that we are progressing to?

Speak for yourself. I do not live like an animal.
If others wish to live like an animal so be it.
Besides, who sets the bar to determine who lives like a animal and who doesn't.

Originally posted by filledcup

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by filledcup
then work more. is that a problem? dont ppl who get rich and become "more equal than others" claiming that they worked their butts off? nothing's changed. work harder and you get more.

And how is that any different from capitalism?

edit on 8/26/2013 by ProfessorChaos because: typo

because.. the bank ceo is paid equally to the burger flipper at mcdonalds.

if the bank ceo works 4 hrs a day, he will enjoy the same benefits of the burger flipper who works 4 hrs a day. the human resource is given the ultimate value in society. and everyone's time and contribution is regarded as equally important. because it is.

edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)

So nobody is ever incentivised to maximise thier potential.

If I can get the same benefit working as a hotdog vendor for 8 hours or for performing brain surgery for 8 hours why would I ever put in the study or endure the stress of being the brain surgeon.

Sure, there are some who push themselves for the betterment of thier fellow man, but not enough to run the world.

reply to post by justwokeup


The simple solution would be to lower the retirement age for brain surgeons. Hotdog vendors would have no place in such a society.

reply to post by Bone75


Why would anybody train to be one in the first place?

If 'the reward' of it is you have to work less hours overall then a menial worker before you can retire to a life of leisure, then you are placing by implication a higher value on one mans labour than others.

That violates one of the principles espoused, all work is equal.

reply to post by filledcup



Lets just put this one to bed - interesting as it may be - it will NEVER happen because you would need to get everyone in the world on side and you've absolutely no chance of ever achieving such a goal. Sad as that may be.

Originally posted by justwokeup
reply to post by Bone75

 

Why would anybody train to be one in the first place?

Because believe it or not, there really are people in this world who seek to minimize the suffering of others with a passion that has nothing to do with financial gain. Imagine how highly you would regard your doctor if you knew he wasn't receiving a penny to end your suffering.
If such a man just saved your son's life, then asks you to help him build a room for his new child on your own time, would you? There's your incentive to become a doctor, and it falls right in line with the self glorifying, prideful nature of humans. Without money, you're going to have to rely on the prestige that comes from your character rather than your wallet to get the big house on the hill.

reply to post by Bone75


ok, thats where we differ. I think most people would simply take the easiest option since there is no material handicap in doing so. Your society would stagnate and collapse.

Thanks for responding though. We just have different opinions on the qualities of humanity.

reply to post by justwokeup


Of course there's a material handicap. If I give you who chooses to do the bare minimum and Dr. Walters the same house, and all the materials you'll ever need to improve it, but you can't pay someone to help you do it... which of you is more likely to live in a mansion?

reply to post by Bone75

Of course the plan needs a lot of work, but since sharing this concept with the ATS community almost 2 years ago (with hardly any support at all), I've seen many people come along with similar ideas that seem to originate within themselves. To me this is a very good sign of things to come. It shows that the Orwellien indoctrination practiced in the west is starting to lose its effect and people are waking up to the fact that the way we are doing things just doesn't make since anymore.

Bone ! I love you man. You and I and OP should run this whole goddamn place.
And no children would ever starve to death again.

This is an pretty old ideal.

www.youtube.com...

I love this moneyless society idea, but who is going to work if everything is free? If they wont work then how will anything be produced that they want for free?

Let's pretend that overnight money disappears. What do you think would happen? Who would toil in the sun to grow food for others? Who would toil to produce the gasoline and oil we need for energy? As soon as people looked around everyone would become an X that doesnt have to exert much effort or energy, and nothing would be done.

I have read stories of far off worlds were money is not used. Where everything is available for use by anyone, and things are built to last 10,000 years. That all that production is done by robots etc.. Well, we don't have robots to do everything for us. If people could take whatever they wanted everything would be gone overnight, and then what about the people living in huge houses while families of 8 live in a hovel? You think that would continue? Of course not, they would force their wills, kill those they don't like, and justify it just like they did in Russia.

I remember as an example of the production problem in Russia, the factory for making jeans was given an order to produce 2000 pairs of jeans, but they only had enough fabric to make 2000 pairs of size 2 jeans. So, they made size 2 jeans. Of course they wasted the material and people went without new jeans. There was on incentive to call the person telling them to produce 2000 pairs that would mean only size 2 jeans. They did their job, they got their stipend, and no one gives damn.

This utopia idea sounds lovely on paper, but the world would fall apart, we would have mad max and the thunderdome anarchy or complete authoritarian police state overnight to enforce the will of those giving orders from the top who always seem to live in mansions, have plenty of food, great healthcare, and fulfilled lives.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity



If your home, and everything else you not only need but also
want or even desire is freely supplied to you by a society.
Anyone who is not human enough to want to contribute
back to that society can be shipped off to not a prison,
but a surval island so to speak. Or where any number
of different concepts once agreed upon may be their fate.

The concept is much more simple, than even you my friend, are making it.
This concept is really a no brainer.

Originally posted by randyvs

Bone ! I love you man. You and I and OP should run this whole goddamn place.
And no children would ever starve to death again.

Ha ha that's a little ambitious brother. I don't want to rule the world, but I would love to take part in changing it. I've heard many great ideas come across these boards and I think we should dedicate a forum to Utopian concepts and making the world a better place. Or maybe we could put something together using the research forum. I'm down if anyone else is.

reply to post by Bone75


By running things I didn't mean rule ! I hate rulers and would never insult you by asking you to be one

Now how about that ?

I think we should dedicate a forum to Utopian concepts and making the world a better place. Or maybe we could put something together using the research forum. I'm down if anyone else is.

As I said I love you man and I meaant that. This thread and it's concept should at the very least
be on ATS live for open discussion in real time.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity




This is actually my message to the world.

I think ATS should get Jacque Fresco or Peter Joseph on here.

Hello,

Actually the only way this can work is at the point in time when our technology is self sufficient. In effect the technology singularity needs to occur before we are freed from the shackles of a monetary based system.

At that point and only that point will we be able to focus truly in the pursuit of bettering ourselves over the rat race we live in today.

Korg.