Make everything 'Free': A Voluntegalitarian System (utopia)

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posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:21 PM
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wanted to get the input of the ATS on the idea of abolishing capitalism and making everything free. everything, products, services, shipping, law enforcement, government positions, janitors, engineers, firemen. a system i have been working on for many years in my thought processes as i studied the entire world, it's cultures and differences in society including the negative factors such as crime, which plague present and past with no end in apparent in sight.

The system is one which carries across the positive factors from capitalism, but combining them with the fairness and equality oriented philosophies of Voluntaryism and Egalitarianism.

en.wikipedia.org...


Voluntaryism (or sometimes erroneously voluntarism), is a libertarian philosophy which holds that all forms of human association should be voluntary.[1] The principle most frequently used to support voluntaryism is the non-aggression principle (NAP). It is closely associated with, and often used synonymously with, the anarcho-capitalist and individualist anarchist philosophies.


en.wikipedia.org...



Egalitarianism (from French égal, meaning "equal")—or, rarely, equalitarianism[1][2]—is a trend of thought that favors equality for particular categories of, or for all, living entities. Egalitarian doctrines maintain that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or social status, according to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.





According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the term has two distinct definitions in modern English.[5] It is defined either as a political doctrine that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights[6] or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people or the decentralisation of power. Some sources define egalitarianism as the point of view that equality reflects the natural state of humanity.


the only reason 'FREE' is in quotes is because the payment is labour. physical labour. any individuals contributing to society would have benefit of all that society has to offer. if a janitor want a benz, he could get one, as long as he dont mind waiting in line for all who want one depending on manufacturing speed and availability. if he want he can go and volunteer his time as a janitor in a benz outlet to contribute to the workforce.

everyone will be donating their labour, skills and thinking capabilities to the field of their choice. teachers could teach for the sake of teaching and not worry about paying bills and other forms of life related financial stress. students could go to school for free and learn from those teachers, and college tuition fees wont hamper anyone from achieving their dreams. no more barefoot, hungry and cant move around to their destinations. taxi drivers would drive to provide the service because they love taxiing and meeting new ppl.

basically a totally different scheme of society based on volantarism instead of competition. dont work or contribute in some way and u get nothing. but even the lowest paid jobs would be alotted land and access to building materials based on the size of their family and their contributions to said society. as mentioned before a janitor could own a benz simply by requesting one.

the objective, to make a clear way and provide full access to all the best, including healthcare and technology in the world to all with no special treatment for anyone. not the queen, not the president, not the ceo of a bank etc.

banks instead of carrying money will be reinvented to keep a log of data of societal contributors, with their contributions and time in hrs worked being the only thing that is logged to keep track of contributors. only requirement is to be a regular contributor to society in some form of work. and i think there is always work. but under capitalism, companies cannot AFFORD to hire more staff even though they desperately could use more help.

another issue is ppl who hate their jobs yet are forced to do it to survive daily. and there are sooo many of them. i luckily am not one nor would i ever work a job i hate. but most ppl dont even get to study the field they always wanted to study because they couldnt afford it etc.

id like to know those who would support such a changeover in world society and those who would not support it.. and why. let's hear what's wrong with such a system, or what's good about such a system.

remember everything free, just be a regular employee of the state and get anything u apply for that u see advertise on tv. thats basically the foundation. however most notably, there are great many other details that would create an entire workable system. so i again remind that this is just an outline.

the idea is to provide everyone with TRUE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. to allow all the pursuit of their childhood dreams unhindered by financial technicalities, to eliminate corruption in government since it will have nothing to thief, to eliminate societies' NEED for criminals and bandits of all sorts who have lost all hope and retaliate against the system by attacking the working class. to eliminate the occurrence of families who have to decide whether to buy a loaf of bread with their last $20 or give it to their child to go to school (i have seen such heartbreaking scenarios with my own eyes having spent time with poor families).

these are just some questions that have been asked when this system is proposed to others. the aim is to dissect the system. find and predict possible flaws and create solutions for them before implementation. in effect.. a system design by the people, for the people.

Question: If everything is free, why would ppl work?
Answer: If you dont work, you dont benefit from the equal opportunity to 'freeness'

Question:But what of those who work harder than the others? for example a carpenter, say one build 4 sheds in one week, while the other builds one and spent his time lounging in villa. Will they both be entitled to the same benifits?

Answer: there could be a productivity body in charge of monitoring for such things. "why is it that one carpenter worked 8hrs and made 3 sheds, while u only made one in the same amount of time? in fact all the carpenters make a minimum of 3 sheds per day but u only do one"? perhaps we'll catch him trying to slack-off(cheat the system), or he might explain he has a special way of building his sheds which make them superior to the 3 a day builders and demonstrate why.

Question: Pride,Greed, Jealousy. if u cant make those things disappear this plan is useless.

Answer: those are targets to be eliminated with such a system. yes such elements will still exist at the start. but as time goes by and everyone is able to pursue every avenue, even switch thru 10 college courses b4 they find the field they really want to spend the rest of their life doing that should change. at the end of the day.. therell be nothing to envy since everyone got the same opportunity as u, if u greedy just work more and get more stuff.

competition creates pride
unfairness creates jealousy
Greed creates hopelessness for others
hopelessness creates crime.

so ATS.. what's ur take? the good, the bad.. the ugly? do you think there would still exist crime in such a world where desire for material has been eradicated into apathy?
edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by filledcup




Oddly I just watched this episode the other night!

I had a nice laugh thinking of all the Bankers and Tycoons who could wake up one day to this sort of reality! Then I was a bit sad that GREED is really what is hold humanity back!

Let me read over your ideas make sure they haven't been done before in something like Communism which is flawed as well...

Personally I would like to see more of a meritocracy as well.
edit on 26-8-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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I am a Sci-fi fan, and the concept that Humans can overcome their baser instinct for the greater good appeals to me.

Sadly in Star Trek such a utopia came after the world almost killed it self off with war, and I fear that's what it will take to even begin to make steps toward a better tomorrow.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:47 PM
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Great! I'll take my Free mansion, with plenty of room to park my free BMW's, Alfa Romeos & Bently's.

Oh, and a place to keep my Free Yacht.

When can I expect delivery?

Thank you, signed,

The Proletariat.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by abeverage
 


the only aspect that can be meagerly compared to communism, is in the fact that certain instituted bodies (government) will be responsible for the fair and orderly allocation of resources, products and services to all who make a request for say an iphone. These bodies working inter-connectedly, will place each request in a queue, and each person will receive their request based on availability and their position in the queue for that particular item. if iphones are out of stock in your region, then you will have to wait until they are restocked and if u are at the top of the queue u will receive yours first upon restocking. and that's pretty much where any aspect of communism stops.

the government would consist of elected officials. as much of how society operates today will stay fully in tact. in effect this can be an overnight change. or instituted in as little as a few weeks across the entire globe. the turn over of elected officials will be swift.. as fast as every 6 months to a year or faster. those who do good work may get re-elected. but they will also adhere to the protocols of their position which lies more in resource accounting, outsourcing, and resource allocation. with each process guided by strict protocols to follow.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by TheWrightWing
Great! I'll take my Free mansion, with plenty of room to park my free BMW's, Alfa Romeos & Bently's.

Oh, and a place to keep my Free Yacht.

When can I expect delivery?

Thank you, signed,

The Proletariat.


as soon as you work for it. you will not get all these things from working for a week and then retiring. besides, you will need resources such as paint to upkeep your mansion and gas for your cars, someone to trim your lawn, access to get new clothes at the department stores etc. for these things you will need to keep working and contributing.. even if it is just to be a janitor or garbage collector or dog catcher etc.

your reward will not come in the form of money, but accounted in the banking system based on Hrs contributed to society. in effect, those who work more can get more stuff, bigger stuff, better stuff. those who work less gain less.

equal in that no ceo giving 8 hrs by sitting in an office meeting will get 24hrs worth of payment. an hr is an hr. and for each hr you work accounted for a by timeclock system will go into your account.

levels will be set. example..

those who work the 1000-5000hrs at 4hrs per day bracket will be privy to a certain group of goods.

those who work the 5001-10000hrs at 8hrs per day bracket total will be privy to a higher group of goods.

and those who work 10001+ hrs at 12+hrs per day will be privy to higher quality good and so on.

so you will have to meet quotas. and productivity is measured in the return of resources based on the contributions of the working masses. basically.. GDP without the cash flow. and all are equally paid for equal time worked.
edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by filledcup
 


As nice a concept as this is, it would never work. If labor is the currency, who decides which amount of labor from which labor-type is worth what amount of which products or resources?

Human nature dictates that one person's idea of working hard enough is not the same as another's. There would be an unbelievable amount of accusations against others claiming that they didn't work as hard as the one making the accusation. (I.E. "I work so much harder than you, so why should you get the same compensation as I do?") - It would happen, don't fool yourself into thinking that it wouldn't.


dont work or contribute in some way and u get nothing.


The Work vs. Welfare Trade-off

We have millions of people who already receive more than ample compensation for doing nothing, what incentive is there for them to even want a system such as this, let alone take part in one?

Not to mention that as with any economic system, there will be parasites, there always are; Once a person witnesses his neighbor getting away with cheating the system, he will do it as well, especially in a 'work for food' type of situation; you'd end up with billions doing nothing and expecting to be supported by the few honest suckers that remained. (sound familiar?)

Just the two issues that I've mentioned above would cause massive civil unrest and the rise of further class warfare.

I'm not trying to be a killjoy, but Humanity is not the happy-go-lucky group of trusting pixies that a system like this would require.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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There would be no Beemers only Ugo's and then only on a good day but that wouldn't be a big deal because most people would starve to death first and we would end up with what we have



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by ProfessorChaos
 


all are equal. your worth is calculated by your hrs of contribution to society per day on an ongoing basis. there can be reasonable buffer periods for vacation etc where one gets to hang out at the beach and still afford a hotel room and hotdogs for the kids etc during their vacation time. even the plane ticket will be free. and a well trained pilot volunteering his time to the airline to fly passengers to pre-determined destinations.
edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by mikell
There would be no Beemers only Ugo's and then only on a good day but that wouldn't be a big deal because most people would starve to death first and we would end up with what we have


why?

if people arent requesting bmws as much then we reduce production. if ppl completely stop requesting bmws then we cease production. if ppl only request bmws, then there is no need for any other car to be produced.

everything stays the same, laws of supply and demand.. all of it.

all we have done is replaced money with actual contribution and effort! no more being born with a silver spoon in your mouth unless everyone is born with their own silver spoon as well.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by filledcup
as soon as you work for it. you will not get all these things from working for a week and then retiring. besides, you will need resources such as paint to upkeep your mansion and gas for your cars, someone to trim your lawn, access to get new clothes at the department stores etc. for these things you will need to keep working and contributing.. even if it is just to be a janitor or garbage collector or dog catcher etc.


Great, so No retirement for anyone ever? Work until you drop?

Sounds like Utopia to me, komrade!
edit on 26-8-2013 by TheWrightWing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by filledcup
reply to post by ProfessorChaos
 


all are equal. your worth is calculated by your hrs of contribution to society per day on an ongoing basis. there can be reasonable buffer periods for vacation etc where one gets to hang out at the beach and still afford a hotel room and hotdogs for the kids etc during their vacation time. even the plane ticket will be free. and a well trained pilot volunteering his time to the airline to fly passengers to pre-determined destinations.
edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)


So, how many hours walking through an office handing mail out is equal to 12 hours of installing a boiler in someone's basement?



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by TheWrightWing

Originally posted by filledcup
as soon as you work for it. you will not get all these things from working for a week and then retiring. besides, you will need resources such as paint to upkeep your mansion and gas for your cars, someone to trim your lawn, access to get new clothes at the department stores etc. for these things you will need to keep working and contributing.. even if it is just to be a janitor or garbage collector or dog catcher etc.


Great, so so retirement for anyone ever? Work until you drop?

Sounds like Utopia to me, komrade!


dont just pick it apart carelessly. of course we would not allow such a thing. a retirement age can be set, but remember you can contribute to society in any way.. babysitting for example past 60 is still a contribution. but retirees can be awarded access to varying levels of facilities based on their overall contribution throughout their lives.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:14 PM
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Hours of work also doesn't equate to quality of work or skill needed to do the work.

You can't walk into a car manufacturer and work there without experience. I would assume you would need some training. Just like I wouldn't expect anyone to walk off the street and be able to do my job.

What is the point of having someone wash the dishes if they do such a poor job that you need to wash them again later?

If all that matters is hours worked, then what is the incentive to actually learn higher skilled trades?

Just a few flaws I am seeing in this system.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by filledcup
all are equal. your worth is calculated by your hrs of contribution to society per day on an ongoing basis...



How do you account for artists?
A painter, for example, may produce 100 pieces of artwork in a week, while his friend next door, another painter, may also produce 100 pieces of artwork in a week.

In our society, they are currently judged for worthiness in the marketplace, and yet even this simple task is skewed by fashion, fame, and other aspects not related to the quality of the work itself.

In your proposed society, how do we decide how much value the paintings produced by my two hypothetical painters are worth? Its not anywhere near as simple as the amount of hours put into them.

Same with music, writing, dance, filmmaking and all those other things that humans value.
How does your soceity figure out how much to pay the artist?

The reason I ask, of course is that if you just have a flat rate for "artist", contribution to society per hour, or per artwork, then anyone and everyone just claim they are an artist and pour out enough rubbish to fulfull the quota.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by filledcup
reply to post by ProfessorChaos
 


all are equal. your worth is calculated by your hrs of contribution to society per day on an ongoing basis. there can be reasonable buffer periods for vacation etc where one gets to hang out at the beach and still afford a hotel room and hotdogs for the kids etc during their vacation time.

I do not wish to be equal.

We are born equal, from there its up to you.

I want more than a concrete hovel & daily turnip from The State.

I am convinced I deserve better than what The State determines I will get for "Free".


even the plane ticket will be free. and a well trained pilot volunteering his time to the airline to fly passengers to pre-determined destinations.

Oh, thank the Glorious State for its Beneficence!

Because surely there is not even a small chance that this system would be used to reward friends and punish enemies, considering the Fact that humans are above temptation and are basically, incorruptible.

Right?

Komrade, you are Most Equal!



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by filledcup
reply to post by ProfessorChaos
 


all are equal. your worth is calculated by your hrs of contribution to society per day on an ongoing basis. there can be reasonable buffer periods for vacation etc where one gets to hang out at the beach and still afford a hotel room and hotdogs for the kids etc during their vacation time. even the plane ticket will be free. and a well trained pilot volunteering his time to the airline to fly passengers to pre-determined destinations.
edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)


So, how many hours walking through an office handing mail out is equal to 12 hours of installing a boiler in someone's basement?


if you enjoy what you do you never work a day in your life. and everyone will have the opportunity to choose what field they work in. those who are inclined to installing boilers will do it because they love doing it. if there is a shortage the government will be responsible for raising the awareness for this need, prompting others to take up the mantle to fill the gap. this is the voluntaryism aspect of the system. u are not forced to work, nor are you fired from any workplace. u could work assembling iphones in a factory today.. and the next day sweep the floor. really doesnt matter. ur gonna get yours.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by filledcup
 


This still still sounds like Capitalism. The more you do, the more you get.

The problem is convincing a Hedge Fund Manager that the hour he spends on the phone in his yacht is equal to the hour Pedro spends scrubbing the toilets back at the office.

Nice idea though.


P.S. It's not FREE if you have to work for it.
edit on 26-8-2013 by BritofTexas because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by filledcup

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by filledcup
reply to post by ProfessorChaos
 


all are equal. your worth is calculated by your hrs of contribution to society per day on an ongoing basis. there can be reasonable buffer periods for vacation etc where one gets to hang out at the beach and still afford a hotel room and hotdogs for the kids etc during their vacation time. even the plane ticket will be free. and a well trained pilot volunteering his time to the airline to fly passengers to pre-determined destinations.
edit on 26-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)


So, how many hours walking through an office handing mail out is equal to 12 hours of installing a boiler in someone's basement?


if you enjoy what you do you never work a day in your life. and everyone will have the opportunity to choose what field they work in. those who are inclined to installing boilers will do it because they love doing it. if there is a shortage the government will be responsible for raising the awareness for this need, prompting others to take up the mantle to fill the gap. this is the voluntaryism aspect of the system. u are not forced to work, nor are you fired from any workplace. u could work assembling iphones in a factory today.. and the next day sweep the floor. really doesnt matter. ur gonna get yours.


In that case, I want to be a professional vacationer, you know, make sure all of the resorts are up to snuff, the drinks are cold enough and the beds are soft enough.

I'm sorry, but this system would never work in human society.





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