On Disobedience

On Disobedience

We are taught the doctrine of obedience. But what is this but a costume for disobedience?

Prometheus disobeyed; Moses disobeyed; Adam and Eve disobeyed; Buddha disobeyed; Socrates disobeyed; Jesus disobeyed; Muhammad disobeyed. These stories of such disobedient people, who disobeyed the cultures, ideals and doctrines of their time to forge their own, stand out not because of any sort of obedience. If we teach the doctrines of these prophets, but leave out their disobedience, then it is fair to say we also teach the doctrine of "do as we say and not as we do".

All religions founded on acts of beautiful disobedience. Yet we are to obey them?

reply to post by Aphorism


Good question...

It seems to be a struggle between obeying TPTB and obeying whatever particular diety one chooses to subscribe to...

We as a species have always attempted to fight against those in power.... with little avail...

especially considering government and religion have always gone hand in hand... despite the fact that they claim otherwise

reply to post by Aphorism


In order to stand-out as an individual, it is important to have unique interests. If everyone agrees on everything (or conform to whatever they believe is "supposed" to be) then the individuality will be gone and it will foster group-mentality, more conformity, and less freedom and uniqueness against the "majority".

Instead of calling it "disobedience", I would prefer to call it "contrast", "difference".

Life exists because of difference. Without difference, there is no "here" or "there", therefore there is no movement.

reply to post by arpgme


On Difference.

Some things are similar, but all things are different. I agree. But disobedience is an action made consciously, while being different is not.

reply to post by Aphorism


Disobedience is difference. I can choose to do what I want, being difference from everyone else, but if someone told me to do something that I do not want to do, and I do the thing I like instead, then it is still a "difference" but now it is labeled as "disobedience".

They are one in the same. Disobedience is a part of being different. The only difference between "disobedience" and "difference" is that one involves a command while the other one is just happening.

If you just be yourself, naturally differences will happen and some will tell you what to do if they want to control your life but if you keep being yourself you will naturally "disobey".

Disobedience is a part of difference, and difference is a part of freedom.

reply to post by arpgme


Refusing to not do what someone orders is not being different. One can disobey an order to be different and instead choose to be similar.

reply to post by Aphorism


Speaking religiously, or spiritually, the act of disobedience was not the only act committed.

Moses disobeyed the traditions of Egyptian polytheism by obeying Jewish tradition.
The Buddha disobeyed the Brahmans of Hinduism by obeying the wheel of Dharma.
Jesus disobeyed the Roman/Jewish system by obeying Christian tradition.
Muhammad disobeyed Arabian superstition by obeying Islamic tradition.

Every act of disobedience is accompanied by one of obedience. It is impossible for somebody to be completely disobedient. They always, without fault, align with something. Political, philosophic, theological, spiritual, artistic, or otherwise, the rebel is never truly and wholly anarchic.

As for the teaching of disobedience... maybe I just had some extremely awesome teachers, but, I was taught to disobey systems and orders which go against reason, logic, or the best interests of the whole. It's been a good while since I was in school though, so, perhaps they've done away with such forward thinking and everything now is simply structured so that you never question authority, or its commands.

~ Wandering Scribe

Obey them is a strong word; believe them is more accurate, that's why faith is so important to adherents... you need faith to believe, to deny logic and rationality even in the face of truth. You need a law to disobey, and to disobey you have to believe a parental authority is over you, for you to allow them to punish you justly, if you do not believe anyone has the authority to punish you, then it will always be felt unjust when they do... perhaps what they really brought to the table was not disobedience, since they felt no one had an authority over them. But a reasonable rationalization for why they felt that was the case.

Kind of interesting in itself that people following such things out of belief and faith are known as adherents... sounds a lot like adhesives or people that cling to belief with a tenacity relative to their faith. The same way someone grips a crutch tightly out of concern that if they don't cling they will fall. Really makes you wonder what accident put them on the crutch to begin with.

In any case nice train of logic there op.

reply to post by Aphorism

Originally posted by Aphorism
Refusing to not do what someone orders is not being different.

It's being different from all the other ones who obey.

Originally posted by Aphorism
One can disobey an order to be different and instead choose to be similar.

Similar does not mean "exactly the same", therefore it is still different.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Moses disobeyed the traditions of Egyptian polytheism by obeying Jewish tradition. The Buddha disobeyed the Brahmans of Hinduism by obeying the wheel of Dharma. Jesus disobeyed the Roman/Jewish system by obeying Christian tradition. Muhammad disobeyed Arabian superstition by obeying Islamic tradition.

Respectfully disagree.
Buddha didn't obeyed the wheel of Dharma. Dharma represent his own teachings, and traditionally they say he turned the wheel of Dharma three times, as in passing forward three major category of teachings, known today as Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana, the three main schools of buddhism.
Jesus is the founder of the Christian tradition, not the follower of it. Same with Muhammad.
So the point is not valid, except maybe for Moses, but he's also the founder of a big part of what we know today as judaism.

I see disobedience as a rejection of familiar or general accepted rules in order to find new ones. Sometimes it leads to great discoveries, sometimes just to car crashes. I guess it all depends on who, and how, and what.

Originally posted by WhiteHat
reply to post by Wandering Scribe

 

Moses disobeyed the traditions of Egyptian polytheism by obeying Jewish tradition. The Buddha disobeyed the Brahmans of Hinduism by obeying the wheel of Dharma. Jesus disobeyed the Roman/Jewish system by obeying Christian tradition. Muhammad disobeyed Arabian superstition by obeying Islamic tradition.

Respectfully disagree.
Buddha didn't obeyed the wheel of Dharma. Dharma represent his own teachings, and traditionally they say he turned the wheel of Dharma three times, as in passing forward three major category of teachings, known today as Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana, the three main schools of buddhism.
Jesus is the founder of the Christian tradition, not the follower of it. Same with Muhammad.
So the point is not valid, except maybe for Moses, but he's also the founder of a big part of what we know today as judaism.

I see disobedience as a rejection of familiar or general accepted rules in order to find new ones. Sometimes it leads to great discoveries, sometimes just to car crashes. I guess it all depends on who, and how, and what.

Barring the explanation re: Buddhism, Christianity and Judaism...almost what I was going to write - complete with 'car-crash' analogy...

*thumbs up*

Å99

reply to post by Aphorism


It is not about disobedience - it is about faithlessness.

If obedience were the goal, there would be no purpose for will or faith.

Yeah , I agree with you all the way.