Not Guilty – Christians Acquitted After Bible Reading at DMV

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Not everyone wishes to hear your version of "truth". I am sure you would not be too happy if a devil worshipper was preaching at you and your family in the DMV, or the grocery line.

Raise your hand if you think that a muslim would be arrested for reading the Koran out loud at the DMV.

This is nothing but thinly veiled persecution of Christians on America.

In 1977, my youth pastor (I was 17 at the time) told me as I was about to move away from Washington to Texas "I think in 10 years there will be persecution of Christians in America".

I thought he had finally gone over the edge. Persecution? HERE? Dude's nuts.

His timing was off, but darned if he wasnt' right. Persecution of Christians is HERE.

And it's going to get worse. Much worse.

I wish I could find Pastor Duane now. I know he's still out there somewhere...

reply to post by davjan4


Oh please..... You act like it's only christians? I was threatened with arrest for trying to talk to people at the town voting place about Ron Paul back in the election that got Obama his first term. I was threatened with arrested for speaking my mind/protesting many times in the past 10 years, and it had nothing to do with any religion. Poor christians are in the same boat as the rest of us, cry me a river.

reply to post by Logarock


Agreed, they should have been charged with "Public Nuisance" and "Disturbing the Peace"!

This is already being dicussed: www.abovetopsecret.com...

It may seem like I am being cruel and indifferent to christian issues. I am sorry, but welcome to reality. Christians are not special snowflakes. Welcome to the reality that lots of us have been living in for a long ass time. Christians were pretty immune to the treatment the rest of us suffered for a long time.

You want to cry persecution? Call me when your kids are taken by threat of violence by government and put in death schools. Christians and the government colluded and did just that to my people for years. Residential schools with ~30% death rates, to abuse, indoctrinate and tame us savages.

I am not saying it is right, but welcome to the club. You want to fight at our sides now that you are not special?

Originally posted by Hollie

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
could you supply some proof that these people are getting in other people's faces or blocking their way? I can understand why people would find them annoying, but as I said, I find a lot of things annoying in public, but I don't expect people to be harassed for it or arrested.

LOL so Christians need proof all of a sudden? That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Anyway, stop sensationalizing stuff. It doesn't do anything for your cause. Good day.

Freaking great a religious person demanding proof...

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
this was a public office and you should be able to say
whatever you want to say. It's called Freedom of Speech!

Even in a library ? ?
Congress is public-office, try your
freedom of speech there before harassing
private-individuals.
. . . No wonder that those that can't be sensible are
the one's that need to be told 'thou shalt not kill'.

____________________

Originally posted by ToneDeaf

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
this was a public office and you should be able to say
whatever you want to say. It's called Freedom of Speech!

Even in a library ? ?
Congress is public-office, try your
freedom of speech there before harassing
private-individuals.
. . . No wonder that those that can't be sensible are
the one's that need to be told 'thou shalt not kill'.

____________________

That only applies to Christians you know. Let a black Muslim read their Koran and see if they get arrested. BO will come out and proclaim the cops racists and destroying people constitutional rights.

Freedom of Speech is just that, and the outside of the DMV is not exactly the lauded halls of Congress, so why don't you just try to use a little common sense here.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, they are citing from a bible.
Freedom of speech is saying, america should enact a law against stupidity.
Freedom of speech is saying what we think, not what these religious fanatics were doing.

reply to post by Hollie


I feel ya there, the problem with christianity in the U.S. is they have
no understanding of what the word persecution means, most of them
believe if they are not given special rights to beat people over the
head with their religion they are being persecuted.

Religion, christianity included, is about ego, they want to be special
and everyone just has to know how special they are..... As if we could
get away from that fact, its in the government, its in schools, its on
the money, they have forced their way into every facet of life, then they
get upset when someone wants them to go away.

The information age is really hurting religions though, they no longer
have a monopoly on what their followers hear and see so it is slowly
moving in a direction where the truth actually matters.

Actually it is against the Christian religion to preach to someone if they haven't been asked to be preached to. That's why churches are built. I find it quite offensive to have someone spouting Bible verses at me especially if I am standing in line and can't leave.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by Hollie

 

Obviously, you don't get the fact the case was thrown out so they were perfectly within their right to do what they did!

No they were not because the judge is wrong on a couple of things.

Nic Cocis, defense attorney and co-counsel, remarked, “These men were exercising their First Amendment right of Free Speech. They were simply sharing their faith on public property and the criminal charges should never have been filed.”

No they were not on public property they were on government property. They own the building as well as the parking lot and the sidewalk. And the law says religion has no place on government property.

In order for the prosecution to prove that a permit was required under Title 13, Section 1860 of the California Administrative Code, it was required to prove that the defendants were engaged in a “demonstration or gathering” as defined in Section 1851. Judge Freer ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prove that the men conducted either a “demonstration or gathering.” Both definitions require that the conduct of defendants was such that it had “the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers” and the prosecution couldn’t prove that to be the case.

They went to the crowd instead of trying to gather one. They knew there would be a crowd here so they just scooted around the law. They should have been fully charged.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


I have to agree with Logarok and Hollie. Sure, there are some anti-christian movement out there. But this case was justified. I know it's the Bible, but it's still a religious text. How would you react if some dude decided to read the Quran, with its antisemitic propaganda, to a crowd?

A true preacher doesn't yell people into seeing Jesus Christ. The relation of an individual with God is (according to Jesus himself, see Matthew) supposed to be intimate, almost secretive.

Originally posted by eManym
Actually it is against the Christian religion to preach to someone if they haven't been asked to be preached to. That's why churches are built. I find it quite offensive to have someone spouting Bible verses at me especially if I am standing in line and can't leave.

Hm, I see you already covered the point. Thanks mate.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by Hollie

 

Obviously, you don't get the fact the case was thrown out so they were perfectly within their right to do what they did!

No they were not because the judge is wrong on a couple of things.

Nic Cocis, defense attorney and co-counsel, remarked, “These men were exercising their First Amendment right of Free Speech. They were simply sharing their faith on public property and the criminal charges should never have been filed.”

No they were not on public property they were on government property. They own the building as well as the parking lot and the sidewalk. And the law says religion has no place on government property.

In order for the prosecution to prove that a permit was required under Title 13, Section 1860 of the California Administrative Code, it was required to prove that the defendants were engaged in a “demonstration or gathering” as defined in Section 1851. Judge Freer ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prove that the men conducted either a “demonstration or gathering.” Both definitions require that the conduct of defendants was such that it had “the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers” and the prosecution couldn’t prove that to be the case.

They went to the crowd instead of trying to gather one. They knew there would be a crowd here so they just scooted around the law. They should have been fully charged.

It is a slippery slope you are arguing though.

Are you in an elevator talking about something I do not agree with? That is an arresting.

Are you waiting in line talking with a friend discussing your political views? That is an arresting.

On the phone talking loudly about a controversial subject? well...

I am a christian and I understand what you are saying. While the guy was being a douche and I do not agree with his methods of proselytism if you give an inch of your rights the gov takes a mile.

What if Muslims were reading the Qur'an aloud to everyone in line....?

Or Satanists were reading aloud from the Satanic Bible...?

Just wondering how you would feel if the script was flipped...

For me, if any of that was happening, and I didn't like it, I would exercise my right to free speech
and talk over them....not call the cops.

I believe in the right to free speech--my right, and your right, to say what you want....

Originally posted by rival
Or Satanists were reading aloud from the Satanic Bible...?

Just wondering how you would feel if the script was flipped...

Hm, I totally agree with you, but I would just like to point out that since Satanism relies heavily on Might Makes Right propaganda, less people seem to be offended when you quote Anton LaVey Than if you quote Jesus Christ. Speaking from personal experience. More and more people agree with Satanism these days.

Just, you know, FYI.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by Logarock

 

Apparently, the judge disagreed with you! Reading a bible is not interfering with anyone. This is simply police harassment.

if it was me standing in line, and they continued with their religious harassment, they would not be standing upright and reading anything. there are plenty of churches around, along with bible meetings, prayer meetings, religious seminars, church camps, door knockers, TV stations, radio stations, etc. to get all the religious crap you want...just leave me the F alone

reply to post by davjan4

Raise your hand if you think that a muslim would be arrested for reading the Koran out loud at the DMV.

You are in Texas so arrested? Maybe. Shot? More than likely.

This is nothing but thinly veiled persecution of Christians on America.

Christians have always been crying they are being persecuted in America. America is not going to become a Christian nation it's against the law to do so. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. That's the way it is no matter what religion.

Originally posted by swanne

Originally posted by rival
Or Satanists were reading aloud from the Satanic Bible...?

Just wondering how you would feel if the script was flipped...

Hm, I totally agree with you, but I would just like to point out that since Satanism relies heavily on Might Makes Right propaganda, less people seem to be offended when you quote Anton LaVey Than if you quote Jesus Christ. Speaking from personal experience. More and more people agree with Satanism these days.

Just, you know, FYI.

oh please...people like you have been beating that dead horse for a long time. are there people that are satanists? yes, but they have always been a small minority. there have been religious nuts, and Satanists nuts out there for centuries...the age of fearing mythical beings has passed for the majority of modern societies.