The Ad Hominoid Subtribe of the Diatribe - Knowing the Truth of Evolution from Involution in a Holog

Two videos included. One on the Aleph Tav. The other on the Holographic universe theory. I present all sides. By the end of this thread, if you do the work, you will know how your information is saved into the Lamb's Book of Life. DNA is the key. See the video at the end. Follow the trail.

Yesterday, the number one thread on ATS by posts and comments was a simple proof noting that we are Created from Letters and Words of DNA. I offered this proof with a slight cheviot. I stated this:

Thread

First, let's get one thing out of the way. An argument ad hominem (WIKI) is an argument made against the opponent (or even belief system) and not at the evidence itself. I understand that this is the typical approach from most here on ATS. I am hopeful that this thread will be different.

I then made the statement that it is delusion to argue against the conclusion that we are created. From the thread, you can read the attacks against God and those standing up for the truth. In this thread I have an different approach.

This thread will be about the merits of evolution. To my mind, evolution is not a cause, but a result of programming from DNA. You can read the last thread in this series to see where my convictions reside. My disappointment with the last thread comes in the fact that there were no replies stating the merits of evolution. I think there are many.

For me, the truth of the matter resides in the concept of Involution and Evolution. Here is a Wikipedia quote on this subject.

“The reason for involution is Delight - the Delight of Being moving to Delight of Becoming. Being throws itself forward into a multiplicity of forms, becoming lost in the inconscience of matter, and then through evolution it partakes in the Delight of rediscovering the Spirit, which had been hidden in the interim.

Evolution is thus the movement forward by which the created universe evolves from its initial state of inconscience (i.e. as matter), evolves animated life forms and mental beings (i.e. humans), and continues to evolve spiritual properties, and in that process rediscovers its Source. Such an Evolution of animated forms is only possible because at each stage of development, the developing entity contains within itself the conception of what it may become. Thus, the evolution of animated life out of matter supposes a previous involution of that animated capacity. This is akin to a seed that already has the essence of the tree that will emerge from it.”

There is also a quote from the Gospel of the Nazarenes (Lection 88) that is of interest:

12. For by involution and evolution shall the salvation of all the world be accomplished: by the Descent of Spirit into matter, and the Ascent of matter into Spirit through the ages.

In the Bible, this concept is know as baptism. We are immersed into the waters of life so that we can rise to new life. For me, this explains much of what science is seeing with the process of a Creative God engaging one universal pattern into nature for the synthesis of life from information.

I found this to be confirmed with the facts of the Hebrew language.

Aleph is Authority / Strength. Bet is House. Nun is Seed. Tav is two crossed Sticks.

Father is Aleph Bet (Alphablet)

Mother is Aleph Mem (Authority of the Water)

Son is Bet Nun (House of Seed)

Clearly, God left us with the pattern of DNA from a programmed environment of information science. We get this clearly in the following verses. As I point out in the last thread, this verse adds the mathematical constant e into its structure of words and letters as a signature of God on His creation. There are many hidden aspects of this type throughout scripture. We can say this is accidental, but what is the context of this verse? Information Science.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

What better way to describe a hologram? If mankind could progress another 1000 years in unity, could science allow us to step into our movies? What would we need? We would need to tap into consciousness as a form of collapsing wave function between the machine and the mind. What has God described here:

Genesis 1

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Of course, the Son is the Bet Nun (house of seed). We are the image of the firstborn son (Colossians 1). What is an image? A created hologram of information. To me, evolution is the obvious part of baptism (Involution). We are tasked with the process of rising to new life. Of course, this is what God struggles with when we read His word concerning the light of mankind (Israel). They are the example to us.

As I point out in the other thread, this is a process of Chirality (Two things that cannot be superimposed) and the coalescence of this duality into one new thing. The very definition of evolution is this process. It has merit.

My conclusion is this: Evolution and natural selection is a highly visible truth if you see the truth of the matter. It is a result of programming and not the cause of it.

In this thread, maybe the debate will center on the truths of evolution and not the Ad Hominoid Subtribe of comments from the last thread. Diatribe is not a good means of discourse.

Why is this true about evolution and involution?

AMN is our word AMEN. In Hebrew, it is Aleph Mem Nun. Strength of the water and seed.

AMT is the word Emet, which is TRUTH. Aleph Mem Tav. The strength of the waters to save.

What happens if you take Aleph from Truth? You get the word Met (Mem Tav). This is the word death.

Aleph is the universal letter of Hebrew which shows God's strength and His identity as the Aleph Tav (Beginning and End). Tav is the last letter of Hebrew and two crossed sticks.

To me, it is very clear.

TAV

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Yahweh, to serve him with one consent.

TRUTH is Aleph (Father) Mem (Mother) TAV (SON)

This is the Tree of Life and the Trinity.

"In Hebrew, ‘Three’ is word 2847. It means ‘Threefold’ and ‘Captain,’ as in, “One in charge of three.” Tree (1012) means ‘Strength.’ This is the picture of the shepherd’s crook and the ox head, which implies the word yoke from the same root. The yoke guides the ox. Combined, they indicate strong authority. “The yoke is understood as a Staff on the shoulders.” We can also see this in the depictions of Christ carrying the lamb (Adam). The Lexicon points out that, “often, two ox were yoked together. An older, more experienced ox would be teamed up with a younger, less experienced ox. The older ox in the yoke is the “strong authority” who, through the yoke, teaches the younger ox.”" From Involution and Evolution Vol. 1...

Father is Aleph Bet (Strong House). This could be a cell (Walled City) and this could be the Strong Nuclear force in nature. Watch this video. Reference the Last Thread



7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Aleph Tav (Involved to Evolve). Immersed in Baptism to rise to new life.

ALEPH MEM TAV

Coming to God.

From the Binner Lexicon.

“When plowing a field with oxen, the plowman drives the oxen toward a distant mark in order to keep the furrow straight. A traveler arrives at his destination by following a mark. The traveling toward a mark, destination or person. The arrival of one to the mark. A ‘you’ is the individual who has arrived at a ‘me.’ The coming toward a mark. A standard, or flag, with the family mark hangs as a sign. An agreement or covenant by two where a sign or mark of the agreement is made as a reminder to both parties.”

The Lamb's Book of Life (DNA) and the Image it contains. This is the best video I can find to show you how this thread outlines what this panel is discussing. John 1 describes their commentary in a few short sentences. In their own words, they are facing new discoveries from the paradoxes. This is how we rise to new axioms. As this thread will show, that axiom is already known. We are Created in an image. You can't get around chirality (18 Minutes). He states this. What does God say about it? Individuation is the point. Chirality is from the last thread in detail.

21:30 - Can our information be saved? Yes. From the mouth of the physicist. What is salvation in the Lamb's Book of Life?

Also here: Chirality and Coelescence

reply to post by EnochWasRight


i know that each language has been engineered to a certain degree but i do wonder how many connections in language syntax are actually intentional and how many are just created because the connection make sense intuitively..? i've always thought it was interesting that something which has very little mass is called "light" (as in "virtually mass-less..?)

our language is definitely a web of meaning and i wouldn't be surprised if it weren't an extension of the syntax that composes reality..

great food for thought!

Imagine the things you could do if you put all this effort into something other than coming up with illogical nonsense..

Originally posted by HyphenSt1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

i know that each language has been engineered to a certain degree but i do wonder how many connections in language syntax are actually intentional and how many are just created because the connection make sense intuitively..? i've always thought it was interesting that something which has very little mass is called "light" (as in "virtually mass-less..?)

our language is definitely a web of meaning and i wouldn't be surprised if it weren't an extension of the syntax that composes reality..

great food for thought!

For me personally, I cannot find a word in Hebrew that does not have this same level of meaning. At some point, I will expand my word list to show other areas of truth. It's an amazing language. Greek is the same.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Imagine the things you could do if you put all this effort into something other than coming up with illogical nonsense..

edit on 25-8-2013 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

How so? Quote me from the OP, then give a view. It's not that hard.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

My conclusion is this: Evolution and natural selection is a highly visible truth if you see the truth of the matter. It is a result of programming and not the cause of it.

Why would an all powerful god therefore, have to devise such a low tech, desperate and miserable means of survival, as is DNA based life, inside of a universe who's laws he was fabricating at the very same moment he was creating DNA anyway? This makes no sense at all.

1. The 'talent' of our DNA 'programmer' is nowhere near that talent level that ostensibly created the universe,

2. This DNA programmer is a desperate victim of universal laws and dangers, as are we. He 'had to make do with the resources and means available to him.'

3. The 'programming' is very poorly done. In fact so sloppy and ineffective - and producing such a long legacy of disease, malformity, misery and suffering, that it is valid to call into question the benevolence of such a 'programmer.'

4. And no, none of this is 'Man's fault.'

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic
Why would an all powerful god therefore, have to devise such a low tech, desperate and miserable means of survival, as is DNA based life, inside of a universe who's laws he was fabricating at the very same moment he was creating DNA anyway? This makes no sense at all.

1. The 'talent' of our DNA 'programmer' is nowhere near that talent level that ostensibly created the universe,

2. This DNA programmer is a desperate victim of universal laws and dangers, as are we. He 'had to make do with the resources and means available to him.'

3. The 'programming' is very poorly done. In fact so sloppy and ineffective - and producing such a long legacy of disease, malformity, misery and suffering, that it is valid to call into question the benevolence of such a 'programmer.'

4. And no, none of this is 'Man's fault.'

Agreed. And why would the DNA programmer wait to encode into a language that does not develop until relatively late (rather than encode in the original language) and why wait to encode in a language that isn't even the first written language (or among the first written languages)?

And why would the DNA programmer make multiple species of genus homo (many of which lived concurrently)? I wonder how their languages worked. I'm pretty sure that none of them were Hebrew (nor demonic).

Interesting, at least as a metaphor in Judeo-Christianity (assuming this term actually exists outside the "Jews for Jesus" type paradigm, or current forms of Christian Zionism).
There's no direct evidence of DNA mentioned in the Bible.
That's one interpretation.

If we're made in God's image then why is God often imagined as omnipresent and omniscient?
Then why not have idols to show us what God's image looks like?
It's kinda implied by Chick tracts (God on his throne with a blanked out face) or the Germanic "hippie" Jesus pics on Facebook, but in reality most people know they are fantastic neo-colonialist nonsense.

And then, how can both men and women be made in God's image?
Is God transgender?
Well, it's probably a metaphor, but if meant literally I'd like a picture of the image we were supposedly all created after.

How can God hover around all 6 billion of us - and survey our sins - if He's got one embodied image?

Or maybe He can just do anything He likes because He's God?

It seems that according to some Hinduism this theory is not entirely foreign.

God may have created both the spiritual and material universes (the latter being the inferior aspect of Krishna).

Because of their desire for sense gratification spirit souls fall into matter, and then reincarnate, evolving consciousness through various bodies.

That view usually says that the various bodies existed since creation, and that only the consciousness of the soul evolves according to karma, but it's always raised the possibility for me that spirit may be colonizing matter.
Life may be animating dead matter throughout the universe.
Interesting theory when divorced from dogmatism.

Originally posted by HyphenSt1
i know that each language has been engineered to a certain degree but i do wonder how many connections in language syntax are actually intentional and how many are just created because the connection make sense intuitively..?

Very few. Spend some time browsing the etymology dictionaries, which take the first recorded use of a word, where it came from (other languages) and show how it changes over time. Human languages borrow from each other all the time; even the ancient Egyptians' language changed from the Old Kingdom to the New Kingdom and changed enough that if you know how to read Old Kingdom material, it is hard (but not impossible) to read the New Kingdom hieroglyphs.

double post

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

My conclusion is this: Evolution and natural selection is a highly visible truth if you see the truth of the matter. It is a result of programming and not the cause of it.

Why would an all powerful god therefore, have to devise such a low tech, desperate and miserable means of survival, as is DNA based life, inside of a universe who's laws he was fabricating at the very same moment he was creating DNA anyway? This makes no sense at all.

1. The 'talent' of our DNA 'programmer' is nowhere near that talent level that ostensibly created the universe,

2. This DNA programmer is a desperate victim of universal laws and dangers, as are we. He 'had to make do with the resources and means available to him.'

3. The 'programming' is very poorly done. In fact so sloppy and ineffective - and producing such a long legacy of disease, malformity, misery and suffering, that it is valid to call into question the benevolence of such a 'programmer.'

4. And no, none of this is 'Man's fault.'

edit on 25-8-2013 by TheEthicalSkeptic because: (no reason given)

From Edgar Allen Poe:

"V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed. But it has been shown that, in the inorganic life, pain cannot be; thus the necessity for the organic. The pain of the primitive life of Earth, is the sole basis of the bliss of the ultimate life in Heaven."

The thing you are missing here is the purpose of God allowing His Son to create a universe. What could He possible learn from the exercise? Is God raising His Son? Who are we?

Lacking a few basic answers as these, you cannot possibly conceive of God's reasoning. The prodigal Son returns in the end. We are all one loaf. We are the bride of Christ. The wheat and chaff are separated. God is producing individuation for fellowship with Himself. It's no fun to look at yourself in a mirror. Better to allow freedom of the prodigal, then welcome the return home from a life well lived. There are so many good reasons that I need not bother conjecturing a contrived deficit in a Holy God.

How many creation stories are in Genesis? In the first two chapters, there are two. One is Elohim with no restrictions of the fruit. The other is the Lord and the fruit is restricted. The Bible clearly states that you have an Angel in Heaven facing God. You are in a fallen world right now. God calls it a refinery (Deuteronomy 4:19 and many other places). They way out is salvation through His Son, the one loaf. We are slices. We are part of that Son of God.

Can you not come up with a single reason God would raise children in a place like this?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
From Edgar Allen Poe:

"V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed.

This is an external objectivist's argument so the Poe justification of suffering does not apply. The Poe relativism based on human perceptions of pleasure and pain is not congruent to a comparison of technological sophistication and victim/oppression dependencies; all being wholly unrelated to our perception of personal good and evil.

The thing you are missing here is the purpose of God allowing His Son to create a universe. What could He possible learn from the exercise? Is God raising His Son? Who are we?

The real goal here is to roast monkeys, since that apparently is the majority outcome in your ontology. Roasting disobedient monkeys, who's DNA god fabricated in the first place, eternally in pits of fire is a great learning exercise yes. A wonderful expression of love.

Lacking a few basic answers as these, you cannot possibly conceive of God's reasoning. The prodigal Son returns in the end. We are all one loaf. We are the bride of Christ. The wheat and chaff are separated. God is producing individuation for fellowship with Himself. It's no fun to look at yourself in a mirror. Better to allow freedom of the prodigal, then welcome the return home from a life well lived. There are so many good reasons that I need not bother conjecturing a contrived deficit in a Holy God.

Yeah, I memorized all this pseudo-exculpatory BS as a kid too. It is like a criminal explaining that he is robbing your house to 'enlighten you to the material-less pathway in life.' But fortunately science, information and ideas began to crumble the corrupt structure of 'god's reasoning.'

Can you not come up with a single reason God would raise children in a place like this?

You have slipped the presumption by, that there MUST be a reason. I am not allowing that presumption to slip by, no.

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
From Edgar Allen Poe:

"V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed.

This is an external objectivist's argument so the Poe justification of suffering does not apply. The Poe relativism based on human perceptions of pleasure and pain is not congruent to a comparison of technological sophistication and victim/oppression dependencies; all being wholly unrelated to our perception of personal good and evil.

The thing you are missing here is the purpose of God allowing His Son to create a universe. What could He possible learn from the exercise? Is God raising His Son? Who are we?

The real goal here is to roast monkeys, since that apparently is the majority outcome in your ontology. Roasting disobedient monkeys, who's DNA god fabricated in the first place, eternally in pits of fire is a great learning exercise yes. A wonderful expression of love.

Lacking a few basic answers as these, you cannot possibly conceive of God's reasoning. The prodigal Son returns in the end. We are all one loaf. We are the bride of Christ. The wheat and chaff are separated. God is producing individuation for fellowship with Himself. It's no fun to look at yourself in a mirror. Better to allow freedom of the prodigal, then welcome the return home from a life well lived. There are so many good reasons that I need not bother conjecturing a contrived deficit in a Holy God.

Yeah, I memorized all this pseudo-exculpatory BS as a kid too. It is like a criminal explaining that he is robbing your house to 'enlighten you to the material-less pathway in life.' But fortunately science, information and ideas began to crumble the corrupt structure of 'god's reasoning.'

Can you not come up with a single reason God would raise children in a place like this?

You have slipped the presumption by, that there MUST be a reason. I am not allowing that presumption to slip by, no.

Good luck with the reasoning. I will choose to see the evident and repent while the present is the gift. We'll compare notes on the other side. Poe had a keen intuition in some cases. Choose to see it how you like.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic
Why would an all powerful god therefore, have to devise such a low tech, desperate and miserable means of survival, as is DNA based life, inside of a universe who's laws he was fabricating at the very same moment he was creating DNA anyway? This makes no sense at all.

1. The 'talent' of our DNA 'programmer' is nowhere near that talent level that ostensibly created the universe,

2. This DNA programmer is a desperate victim of universal laws and dangers, as are we. He 'had to make do with the resources and means available to him.'

3. The 'programming' is very poorly done. In fact so sloppy and ineffective - and producing such a long legacy of disease, malformity, misery and suffering, that it is valid to call into question the benevolence of such a 'programmer.'

4. And no, none of this is 'Man's fault.'

Agreed. And why would the DNA programmer wait to encode into a language that does not develop until relatively late (rather than encode in the original language) and why wait to encode in a language that isn't even the first written language (or among the first written languages)?

And why would the DNA programmer make multiple species of genus homo (many of which lived concurrently)? I wonder how their languages worked. I'm pretty sure that none of them were Hebrew (nor demonic).

The same reason that the light of this OP blinds the ones viewing it. Too much light too soon does not produce clear vision.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Good luck with the reasoning. I will choose to see the evident and repent while the present is the gift. We'll compare notes on the other side. Poe had a keen intuition in some cases. Choose to see it how you like.

When reduced to a position where it has no intellectual leg to stand upon, Abrahamism always resorts to pulling out the Holy Hand Grenade of last resort, = this specific threat. In this M&M candy, beneath all the candy coated flowery spiritual angelic worded shell, is a core of dark, manipulative hate and condemnation.

So your whole ontology, and your whole eloquent justification, is all hollow then? And your religion only survives, because of this artifice of threatening people with hell.

So stands it.

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Good luck with the reasoning. I will choose to see the evident and repent while the present is the gift. We'll compare notes on the other side. Poe had a keen intuition in some cases. Choose to see it how you like.

When reduced to a position where it has no intellectual leg to stand upon, Abrahamism always resorts to pulling out the Holy Hand Grenade of last resort, = this specific threat. In this M&M candy, beneath all the candy coated flowery spiritual angelic worded shell, is a core of dark, manipulative hate and condemnation.

So your whole ontology, and your whole eloquent justification, is all hollow then? And your religion only survives, because of this artifice of threatening people with hell.

So stands it.

edit on 25-8-2013 by TheEthicalSkeptic because: (no reason given)

The point is possibly easier to imagine than you might suspect. God is invariable and this shows up in the symmetry of the strong nuclear force. Why does he allow the Electron (-) to be free? Simple. Individuation. Being an individual is one of the hallmarks of God's design in creation. Chirality, as I pointed out, is the ability to coalesce, yet also possessing the individuation that keeps us from being superimposed on another. If this were not so, then there would be no other image than a perfect copy of God. For individuation to occur as aspects of God coalesce, the opportunity for evil must be present. Why? God's will is to give and receive. When something takes, it denies surplus and creates chaos. God has managed the unmanageable with law.

God is invariable for a reason. Love requires that we protect the ones we love. God is the Father. Do you expect Him to allow a place for those who choose to break symmetry on purpose, then deny that the designer even exists. Who knows, maybe he will allow unrepentant thieves into his kingdom. What do you think? Actually, God can only give. His choice is clear. He will give darkness to those who do not choose His way. At least a place is provided, right? He denies nothing. He offers everything.

1 Corinthians 2

6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

I don't throw this away. I embrace it. God is Amazing and I love Him for no other reason than His goodness shared with me. When I break the law, it breaks me. This is also goodness if I learn to love others by the harm I cause myself. God is raising children.

people have been taught that the organic form is weak and primative but what evidence do we have for THAT?? sure, the human body has it's limits, but zoom out in scale for a second and realize that there are lifeforms that have adapted to every condition imaginable with the exception of the vacuum of space..

however, i can't say that i think the bible or any holy-book has "ABSOLUTE TRUTH" and any attempt at coming to some divine revalation isn't going to end well..

BUT!

i think the OP does have some interesting points that are being missed by a few folks..
can anyone draw a true distinction between the human form and consciousness and the rest of the naturally occurring world?? it's all a collaboration between everything that interacts (and it all does..)
the very nature of existance is a tapestry of different vantage points and interpretations, and as "eccentric" as some points-of-view might seem, i've come to find that most contain at least SOME useful truth if looked at through the right mental lense..

soooo, while Enoch might prefer the metaphore/terminology of biblical scripture as it relates to modern ideas of the fabric of life, I see the same references to an ever-prevelant syntax in nature, music, art, physics, and it becomes incredibly apparent in some altered states of consciousness..

just because the terms do not agree, the concepts may be synonymous..


-St1

reply to post by EnochWasRight


one of my more recent ponderings: what if evolution is one of the oldest art forms..? if creativity started on a cosmic scale, and has resulted in the gradual solidification of forms and the emergence of other forms of creativity such as invention..? hmmmm...

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Sorry but this is getting ridiculous!....your posting the same stuff in multiple threads!.....I know your pushing a book....but........come on!

We get it!....you've found a "code" in the bible and you like to play with words.....and your selling a book