Faith Healer Convinces Followers To Never Vaccinate, Now Church The Center Of Measles Outbreak (VIDE

Let me guess....

They had just received a shipment of blankets from the US Government....

Originally posted by bigman88

Originally posted by ArchAngel_X
Although I would never consider myself anti-vaccination and honestly believe there are major benefits to global vaccination efforts - polio is a great example - I also can't help but think we as a society are starting to rely on vaccination it for diseases and illnesses that in my opinion are not serious enough to warrant it, such as influenza and chickenpox.

And tetnus, because they want to protect your baby from getting cut on a rusty piece of metal. and cervical cancer, which thousands of girls in the US and India have died from or become permanently disabled from.

Aluminum? Formaldehyde? Mercury? And what other toxic industrial material that has no business going into the human body? I would be cool with vaccinations if they did not put crap LIKE THIS into it. But for some reason, they insist on it.

Given that you are in favour of using vaccines based on evidence, why do you then proceed to the scaremongering about various components of some vaccines based upon no evidence?

thimerosol (mercury) was removed from all vaccines manufactured in the US and used on children under 6 by 2001 (source), and there has never been any evidential link between thimerosol in vaccines and any condition established - ever.

List of vaccines in currently used the US and their thimerosol content - also contains extensive references to studies of thimerosol toxicity.

Formaldehyde is actually an ESSENTIAL component of human metabolism - we can't live without it!! A 2 month old infant at 5kg (11 lb) can be expected to have about 1.1 mg of formaldehyde in its bloodstream!

Here's some actual facts about formaldehyde in vaccines

Aluminium salts are used in vaccines as adjuvants - adjuncts are materials that increase the immune response to the vaccine, thus making it more effective and/or allowing a smaller dose to be given for eth same response.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I think the problem is here.... I don't have a Medical Doctorate.

Many of those that DO have Medical Doctorates refuse to get vaccinated, they KNOW the truth.

Are THEY also talking down to you as well?

Why is it that those on the losing end of an argument always seem to attack the other persons character?

I went back and reread several of Unifiedserenity's posts and saw NO evidence of insults or rude posts.

In fact, I saw just the opposite.

Sadly, the fact that many choose to ignore the truth and believe the lies actually FURTHERS the agenda and propagates it.

"Much of what you have been led to believe about immunizations simply isn't true. I not only have grave misgivings about them, I would urge you to reject all inoculations for your child. Although I administered them my-self during my early years of practice, I have become a steadfast opponent of mass inoculation because of the myriad hazards they present." ~ Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

Confessions of a Medical Heretic

"My honest opinion is that vaccination is the cause of more disease and suffering than anything I could name." -Dr. Harry R. Baybee

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good." - Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the US Federal Drug Admin.)

"This..forced me to look into the question of vaccination further, and the further I looked the more shocked I became. I found that the whole vaccine business was indeed a gigantic hoax. Most doctors are convinced that they are useful, but if you look at the proper statistics and study the instances of these diseases you will realise that this is not so . . . My final conclusion after forty years or more in this business [medicine] is that the unofficial policy of the World Health Organisation and the unofficial policy of the 'Save the Children's Fund' and ... [other vaccine promoting] organisations is one of murder and genocide. . . . I cannot see any other possible explanation. . . . You cannot immunise sick children, malnourished children, and expect to get away with it. You'll kill far more children than would have died from natural infection." --Dr Kalokerinos MD here

Why do they have to lie. Yup that is the preacher from the OP.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I think the problem is here.... I don't have a Medical Doctorate.

Many of those that DO have Medical Doctorates refuse to get vaccinated, they KNOW the truth.

"Many"??

the handful of examples you have given in your extract do exist for sure - and many more.

However they consistently fail to provide any actual evidence to support their case.

This is not character assassination - this is fact - they use anecdote and scaremongering. The site Doctos against vaccines doesn't include or link to one single peer reviewed study.

Instead it uses 4 case studies - FOUR.

It uses language like "screaming" to spread it's fearmongering:

Don't ever stop screaming about the present situation. I suggest you do your screaming into the ears of your legislators, tell them you want ALL laws advocating mandatory medicine repealed. OFF THE BOOKS! Forget the polite talk, it never works against organizations such as the AMA, FDA, CDC, NIH - all of which destroy rather than improve, public health. These government organizations have conspired with legislators and have poisoned the soil in which we grow our food, they have poisoned our drinking water with fluorides and chlorides, they are now poisoning our food chain with genetically altered foods that have already knocked off an entire population of pigs... BUT ABOVE ALL ELSE THEY ARE POISONING OUR BODIES - the last frontier of privacy of the common man!

Scream into the ear of your legislators - tell them we're NOT interested in SAFE VACCINES, or IMPROVED VACCINES, or HIGHLY EFFECTIVE vaccines -

Scream into their ears that what we want is AN END to MANDATED VACCINES!!

Scream into their ears that we want ALL MANDATED MEDICINE off the law books.

How about that - they are not actually interested in SAFE VACCINES!!

And you still think they are somehow a reliable group??

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

And how many have died from this grievous error and heinous virus? Its truly horrible. Obviously there faith was lacking. That or we need to stop making a big deal about things which were never all that dangerous in the first place. Kind of hard to have a cure for the common flu when it is a thousand different things which are but symptoms the body, and when the virus itself changes almost each and every time it infects somebody, as you body and immune system changes to adapt to a virus. That virus itself over time changes to adapt to the changes your body and immune system has produced. In a way the majority of medicine is faith healing...ie look up the placebo effect. And attempts at bypassing natural adaptive processes has adverse effect contrary to popular believe.

Yet there are serious stuff out there no point in patting ourselfs on the back and sweat the small stuff. I mean kids getting measles who would of thunk it. But think of this like a drug if your body and immune system gets used to always getting help from artificial vaccines in many ways that is why they call them drugs. Your body is also getting used to functioning with them in the system. Thereby making you dependent on them, like cigarets in many ways its just bypassing natural processes which you would already have or had at one point, in effect making you a dependent, ie hooked. And when and if a serious virus enters the picture, there would be little your immune system would be able to counter as its just waiting for its next injection to kick start it. Read the small print i suppose.

reply to post by alfa1

Between the years 1987 and 2000, the case fatality rate across the United States was 3 measles-attributable deaths per 1000 cases, or 0.3%.

Ya but you link is kind of deception. Look at it like this out of a 1000 death how many of those got hit by a car or simply tripped on a branch and impaled themselves or banged there head on a rock and that was that. The numbers are just as likely for that to happen within those 1000 deaths then that they would of died of measles. You obviously have not seen some of the bizarre ways people have died, I think car accidents and even silly things like tripping on a banana peal and somehow ending up dead, just may be as high as dieing of the measles in a 1000 random person percentage rate.

Look at this site to get a grasp of just how some people end up dieing and the thing just may be that some of those ways are just as likely in a random 1000 people group of happening just as the measles are.
darwinawards

In underdeveloped nations with high rates of malnutrition and poor healthcare, fatality rates have been as high as 28%.

Again maybe the reason why the all got sick and ended up dieing may have to do with the fact that there malnutrition, in a environment which is always bombarding them with sickness viruses and diseases, and its probably an ongoing thing for them as in it happened over years and years. I mean what happens when you dont sleep for days are constantly under stress to get by, live in sucky crappy conditions, and you live in that situation for a long time without any breaks. The answer is you get sick as your body breaks down, which lead to you getting slowly more sicker and sicker as your immune system cant fight all that is going on and never gets a break. I mean sure you can fight the common cold now in your cozy house with the heat blasted, but what if you were in some shorts and sweater and in the middle of the rainforest in winter and have not eaten any food for days, are dehydrated and malnutritioned. What would happen then? Cumulative bombardment is as fatal if not more fatal then extreme situations, though there less obvious. literally like cooking a lobster most would not even notice.


So in effect it was not the measles which killed them it could of been any number of other disease by this point even the common cold, but the culmination which lead to there immune system being weekend and in such a state that the measles would be able to kill them. Again blaming the symptoms and not the problem, just like the majority of drugs are curing the symptoms and not the problems.

Dont get me wrong there are plenty of cases were vaccines work and could work, however what you linked is not one of them. You basically could do the same for anything or any disses, take random numbers put them in a certain context and OMG its a killer...Ya but so is getting stung by bees, or even diarrhea. And just so you know the internet says that 1.8 million people die from diarrhea each year. Look it up. But again that's not telling the whole story now is it?

Originally posted by katndew
reply to post by carabao

 

Please make sure you get a flu vaccine this year

LOL

Please don't compare the seasonal flu with polio, typhoid, smallpox, mumps, rabies, meningitis, yellow fever or other serious illnesses.

If you are ill in a way that makes the seasonal flu dangerous for you, you should get a vaccine for it, however I'm a healthy young person and as such don't need a vaccine for the seasonal flu.

I do not think you should get any vaccine available, but rejecting all and any vaccine is putting your fellow humans at risk.

Would you go to India without a typhoid vaccine? Would you want your child to go to India without it?
Or, how about a trip to Congo without yellow fever vaccine, thrilling...

If so be sure to stay at a nice hotel and eat only at the expensive restaurants, however it might be best to stay close to your local faith healer and not travel much eh?

Originally posted by Khaleesi

Originally posted by carabao
Greatest quotes from this thread:

"aluminium in the anti anti-perspirant", (guess there's a conspiracy there... I can smell it).

"ausburgers syndrome", (named after inbreeding in the famous German Ausburger family).

aaaaand.....

"colon telescopy" (ouch, but still better than the very painfull "colon observatory").

gogo you anti vaccination people, you are allmost as amusing as the chemtrail crowd.

I must have missed the post about aluminum in antiperspirant. I quoted the CDC saying it is in vaccines though. I don't care who Aspergers is named after. It's still a very real syndrome. So. you feel a need to make fun of a very real and dangerous problem that is mainly suffered by small children? It is called intussuseption and is a very serious condition. The description is:" Intussusception occurs when one portion of the bowel slides into the next, much like the pieces of a telescope." So make fun all you want. You quoted someone making an accurate description.

Hmmmm... I think I was making fun of the general level of intelligence of the anti-vaccine people.

"anti anti-perspirant". come on, that's funny.

"Ausburgers syndrome", yah I understand they mean aspergers.....

"colon telescopy", well.... I'm guessing colonoscopy is what the doctor needs to perform to diagnose the intussusception(or is it colon telescopy, I'm confused).

anyway have fun with your delusion about vaccines

Like someone said earlier, evolutional dead-end....

btw, I'm sorry I commented. I usually just read conspiracy stuff for inspiration.

I guess I don't understand this whole thing, because I was under the impression that the vaccine was supposed to keep you from getting sick. IF it is going to keep you from getting sick, then why does it matter if Joe down the street doesn't get the vaccine. Even if Joe gets sick, you have the vaccine and should not get sick.

Again, maybe I don't get it, but I don't understand why it matters if you've had the vaccine.

reply to post by Murgatroid


(sigh)

As usual.... I must either be 1,000% FOR something... Or 1,000% AGAINST something.

The concept of anything in life being mixed with some good and bad included to find balance with seems beyond so many anymore, for basic discussion.

Well... Enjoy the thread. I'm not going to take an absolute "Vaccines are 100% good" because they sure as hell aren't. However, people here who are 1,000% against them? Well... I'll just say, to each their own ..and how you handled your child ever being a part of life with other children in America should be a good story...as the basic vaccinations aren't asked or requested. You DO it...or you explain to your kid how they won't know what school is, friends are from it or anything like a field trip or prom.

No Vaccination? No access to any of that. As a parent? That's a flat statement of fact. It's a shame so many are so quick to take absolute stands ......when none of us DO have the expertise or the education to support it without quoting others.

This isn't the topic to be making life/death decisions based on the thoughts and opinions of others. I don't...and I'm real sorry if some can't find the tolerance to accept that without ridicule or attack.

Some of this is what is turning this site into a place even I'm starting to grow weary of coming to, to be totally honest. Debate is fun.... Fighting like we have personal life investment in every topic is childish and immature. It's combat by word, not weapon. The 'enjoyment factor' is precisely the same. 0. It's coming to be the norm, not exception.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Many of those that DO have Medical Doctorates refuse to get vaccinated, they KNOW the truth.

I would love to see you actually put some facts to your statement! As far as I can tell, in most Western nations it is usually part of a clinician’s professional responsibility to be vaccinated against common diseases, thus contributing to “herd immunity”. Whether this is an explicit or implied requirement would be a moot point.

Obviously, some clinicians refuse vaccinations, but I would certainly refuse to be treated by a clinician who was clearly not running in line with my expectations of conduct and fitness to practice. If my clinician did not believe in vaccinations what else would they not believe in? Blood transfusions!

People who think vaccinations are not life savers need to travel to central Africa, or India. Start with a polio hospital! You’ll be safe because you will have been vaccinated in childhood. Also, those who think vaccines contain poisons need to chill, because our bodies are really complex and many of these poisons also keep us alive! There’s context and there’s also something called biology.

Regards

Originally posted by paraphi


People who think vaccinations are not life savers need to travel to central Africa, or India. Start with a polio hospital! You’ll be safe because you will have been vaccinated in childhood. Also, those who think vaccines contain poisons need to chill, because our bodies are really complex and many of these poisons also keep us alive! There’s context and there’s also something called biology.

Regards

edit on 26/8/2013 by paraphi because: typo

How does mercury and aluminum benefit our bodies? Your arguments are just wrong. There have been plenty of posts backing up the fact that many doctors don't use vaccines personally or for their own family. You know at one time they thought bleeding the body was a great way to cure illness and they all did it.

If they all jumped off a bridge you would join them right?

Lemming much?

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Maybe you missed this postwww.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
How does mercury and aluminum benefit our bodies?

Try as you might, you will ingest mercury if you eat fish. However, the amount will be so miniscule that there will be no impact. However, you are referring to thimerosal, of which there is ample reliable evidence that it does no harm and is shat out after a couple of weeks anyway.

On aluminium, which is possibly the commonest metal found in nature, you will merrily ingest without panic or awareness. Your body contains the stuff and it is also peed out.

I am no biologist or chemist, although both subjects are familiar to me. However, if you boiled your average body down, apart from aluminium you will find a whole host of poisons and harmful elements e.g. lead, cadmium, boron, selenium, iodine etc... All these are vital for life, but also toxic! That's life for you!

As a parting shot. Apple seeds contain cyanide, but does that stop me (or anyone else) gobbling up the whole apple? I’m still alive, with no harm done.

Regards

reply to post by TheMagus

please don't confuse me with the OP

Wha?

Dude, I quit this thread yesterday and most of you that are trying to knock some sense into these people should also.

No matter what you say you're not going to change the views of these people even though I proved at lease 4-5 of those slides wrong with the article I linked them. What would make me want to read the sources of the other ones if the ones I did look at are bull# and provided you with evidence on why it's wrong? Where is the rebuttal to that link? Ahh, exactly... you got proved wrong and now are trying to link me a YouTube video of a nobody.

I don't have time or could care less about these people and if you think I'm going to spend my time looking at every source and slide, you're lacking reality and you make yourself look just stupid and quite frankly when ever these people post and don't follow up on the sources of information... it makes them look dumb. Really dumb. Maybe you can get away with things like this is undergrad school, and on message boards where people are gullible enough but once you're pursing your MA/MS and/or Ph.D, in the real world where peoples health are at stake, pulling # like this will get you kicked out for being labeled an idiot while destroying your credibility.

I found inaccuracies and misleading graphs in the few I looked at, and some of them are so blankly obvious how can someone take the others as truth?

Common sense is what people are lacking, and quite honestly I could care less about them if they want to kill themselves don't get the vaccinations, I just don't care.

Originally posted by MrBigDave
I guess I don't understand this whole thing, because I was under the impression that the vaccine was supposed to keep you from getting sick. IF it is going to keep you from getting sick, then why does it matter if Joe down the street doesn't get the vaccine. Even if Joe gets sick, you have the vaccine and should not get sick.

Again, maybe I don't get it, but I don't understand why it matters if you've had the vaccine.

Because vaccines are often (usually?), sadly, not actually 100% effective, and so herd immunity remains an important aspect of disease control.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
reply to post by TheMagus

 

please don't confuse me with the OP

Wha?

sigh...
you're replying to gaul
yet it says:
reply to TheMagus?

*********
as for people needing to go to africa?
tell it to all the women in africa and india who will NEVER have children because

vaccine maker: "oops! sorry you've been sterilized, "bad batch". s_it happens", oh well, they would have starved anyway and suffered, but hey! at least you've got your "health"! " [laughs all the way to the bank]

as for the decepticon that spewed the half-truth regarding the taliban "murdering" "health" workers...
the half that was left out was that it was retaliation for previous sterilizations

the taliban in addition nearly eradicated the opium poppy as well but 'muricans put an end to that "intolerance"

ROFL with 'muricans hate for the taliban but then again,
people always tend to hate those who remind them of themselves

but feel free to disregard my words, as I Am quite "Insane".