Faith Healer Convinces Followers To Never Vaccinate, Now Church The Center Of Measles Outbreak (VIDE

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Okay. The article you posted via link is the typical "associative story" which really only has one aim: To connect the apprehension toward vaccines with crazy people (in this case, Fundamentalist Christians). It's one of the most used tactics in the media's arsenal of social engineering practices, which, don't forget, is the real purpose of the infotainment industry. So, the general public begins to believe that only crazy people would be against the myriad vaccinations that children are exposed to.

First, in case you are not paying attention, The entire health care industry (at least in the U.S., and most of the Western World) is in business. Pharmaceutical Corporations, Health Insurance providers, Medical Corporations are all for profit; any real health benefits that stem from research and practice are nothing more than secondary benefits.

Secondly, It makes me ragey to see some of the comments basically hurling epithets at "Anti-Science" folk (people who don't automatically put their whole faith into every scientific advancement that happens). Newsflash kids: Medical Science has been co-opted by corporations too. Studies are no longer done in the quest for knowledge, but how much money can be made on a new drug that treats a (usually) negligible ailment.

Several posters in this thread have talked about the natural immunity factors to certain diseases that used to be fostered by communities and neighbors. But I know, going down that path is a dark trip. Because people used to lose their children to diseases their bodies couldn't fight. It used to be considered a fact of life, and we knew that the one who didn't make it wouldn't pass on the genetic markers of weakened immunity. Certainly, no parent wants even to think of losing a child. Which is why we have all of these vaccines. The trouble is that these laboratory cocktails are placed into the bodies of young children whose natural immunities haven't had time to develop. And the presence of these vaccines, as well as the dependency on them will assure that the immune system is weakened and rendered significantly less capable for the whole of that person's life. And that person will pass on the weakened immunity to their children, who will likely be even worse off.

It also seems that relating anecdotal data is a high crime against science, and should always be shouted down in favor of statistics and data from real, peer-reviewed scientific studies. Here's the deal with that: Data from studies only has relevance as averages, or standards contrived from lowest common denominators. These things are useless to an individual who wants to decide for themselves how to maintain their wellness, because a person is not an average or a standard. We actually need more people sharing anecdotal information one to another, with the common sense understanding that it's not a guarantee, but rather a good chance.

I'm certainly not anti-science, by the way. I just think everyone needs to become aware, and remain aware that in the modern day, advancements in medical science are not made for any altruistic purposes. It really is all about the money. If they can hook one person into a lifelong cycle of illness and treatments, there's more money to be made than simply curing the ailments once and for all.

Originally posted by izero
People who don't believe in vaccinating should try living in the third world.. Then come back and say that vaccines are evil.

It's not something that should be an individual choice.. It should be mandatory, not just for ones own child but for protection of the heard.

but soldiers get vaccinated up the kazoo
and get sick anyways

Mandatory? ROFL
another rapist trying to stick his "needle" into everyone and squirt...

the herd?

sorry, but we are not domesticated animals as you believe yourself to be
you'll find few takers for the oligarchic principle flavored koolaid [Now with Iron!]here

Come on people, you're smarter than this. I bet if the results came in they would show that most of the ones which broke out with the measles are the ones that got the vaccinations. Every time the media posts this crap, the results show it was the vaccinated ones that had the outbreak.
Just because the preacher is against vaccines does not mean all the kids are home-schooled. Chances are they are not. They are required to take the vaccines by law with very few exemptions, which the schools make almost impossible for the parents to use.
Lol, I love how this one made front page but the fact that the CDC admitted for 15 years polio vaccines have infected millions with cancer was buried under the Health and Wellness Forum here on ATS. Someone(s) must be scared....
The fact this link made front page when I believe most ATSers know vaccines have been proven ineffective and bad is the proof. But carry on making it obvious..... gives me more hope for the future that more people will pick up on it.

Maybe he should have convinced them to wash those hands and eat right. Wait, it's easier to blame it on science not saving them, ok. The problem is not with vaccines as much as it is not taking care of yourself because you think God is.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
reply to post by TheMagus

 

you should look up "correlation does not imply causality"

And you should look up the statistics, and see the dramatic increase in autism-related disorders since around the time those vaccines started spreading like wildfire.

There certainly have been cases of brain damage linked to vaccines - but the risk of brain damage from any vaccine is orders of magnitude less than the risk of brain damage from the actual disease.

Says who?

So you are in favour of doing other natural things too? Like no surgery for example? Walking everywhere rather than using motor vehicles? Not taking aspirin for a headache?

I prefer not to take vaccines. That does not imply that I'm Amish.

Don't jump to extremes, it really shows your intelligence.

no brains - but certainly consistency!

Are you eleven years old or what? Name calling and making extreme assumptions?

Is that the best arguing you can do?

Actually, with vaccines, the vast majority of people CAN escape them!

That is what vaccines do!!

That's what they're supposed to do.

Do you believe everything the mainstream tells you?

no - where did I say that? the FACTS are that there were in the order of 500 deaths and 4000 cases of encephalitis due to measles in the US per year pre-vaccine - so you can expect a return to those sort of numbers should the vaccine be not used again.

You didn't say it, you implied it.

Either you're not keeping up with what you're saying, or you simply don't know what you're talking about.

"Massive controversy" is not the same as it being actually true. the controversy is only massive for those who are anti-science.

Would there be a massive controversy about something if there wasn't evidence to the contrary of mainstream beliefs? I suppose there's no evidence of 9/11 being an inside job, either... don't mind the bombs in the basement, or the detonations. Nevermind the defense forces just HAPPENING to be simulating a drill for that exact terrorist attack-type scenario as it was HAPPENING.

Anti-science? Wrong.

Science is what leads us to controversy, and leads us away from mainstream lies.

Hell, even a wikipedia link was provided backing this...

Avoiding the vaccine doesn't avoid the disease - it allows it. How do you not comprehend that??

I was repeating what you implied.

Yep - happy to look in it knowing I am not advocating doing nothing about disease.

what's your excuse?

I think for myself, rather than letting Nightly News think for me.

Failing to recognize your own hypocrisy is what I expect of pseudoscience believers

Right. Becuase I believe differently than you, I'm a hypocrite.

Like I said, gooooood work.

umm...
please don't confuse me with the OP
it's not flattering

reply to post by fenson76


I agree... wash your hands, eat right, exercise and don't inject diseases containing cancer causing, toxic chemical filled vaccines : ) . But do rely on God and your common sense also.

People who don't believe in vaccinating should try living in the third world..

Sure, it's the lack of vaccination that makes living in the third world hard, not a combination of several factors.

It's not something that should be an individual choice..

That's debatable. However you could at least give some arguments why.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Your position is one of the more energetic I have ever seen on this junk pseudo science you're spouting.

It's very accurate to say vaccination of the major diseases have had mixed results in practice. It's also fair to say that side effects absolutely do happen and happen more often than anyone should accept. This is why I say, without hesitation, we have packed FAR too much into those injections with only vague notions of long term impact. I still wonder about interaction of the agents themselves. The vaccines being shot together. They seem to insist that can't be a factor.....but then Agent Orange was perfectly safe at one time too, they insisted on that, as well.

Now you mention Small Pox was falling...are you actually going to suggest with a straight face that the effective eradication of Small Pox in our world came without vaccination efforts? I can't believe anyone here would be under that level of ignorance. That's all THAT is. It isn't even subjective opinion like the vaccine itself is. The impact of the vaccinations is quantified, historical fact.

As far as the science I am basing my beliefs on, it goes back to the early work on vaccines in, yes, again, Small Pox for the one I'll use an an example. First work on that started in the early 18th century. Unfortunately, it got off to a dubious start for that one, with one of the first vaccination related deaths also coming in 1758. Despite the vaccine being worked with for at least a couple decades prior to that, I can't help but think that was a dubious way for the early stages to move along.

By the 1970's though, it had eliminated one of the worst serial killers man has ever known on this planet.


Now, if you have more than catchy graphics, slogans and pseudo science , I'd love to see some data-based studies with method explained and, preferably, repeatable results produced (What we folks around science in any form tend to call fact...or as close as science ever comes, anyway).

If you have some of that to go by, I would love to see who staked their credibility on such a theory as vaccination NOT resulting in the eradication of Small Pox.

You take one of Medicines greatest achievements and toss it off like a minor event on the back page of the metro section. That isn't a very strong indicator of your own background on this topic, quite frankly. The tone you're 'combating', rather than debating it with? Well....That makes me wonder if you DO have anything we'd all consider objectively credible as a source of data?

(For all the times I've been in this debate...You'd be the first one to ever have it to supply...so feel free to make a First here. I'll wait patiently and check back tonight. )

Greatest quotes from this thread:

"aluminium in the anti anti-perspirant", (guess there's a conspiracy there... I can smell it).

"ausburgers syndrome", (named after inbreeding in the famous German Ausburger family).

aaaaand.....

"colon telescopy" (ouch, but still better than the very painfull "colon observatory").



gogo you anti vaccination people, you are allmost as amusing as the chemtrail crowd.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Wow. This was just one I found from back in the early 1800's. There was even cover-ups and debates back then, lol. Anyways, here is one URL - whale.to... And that only took me one minute to find. Yes, I did read it and you should also. BTW, there are plenty of scientist and doctors who believe vaccines are not effective and dangerous. In fact, they have spoken out against them so please don't think we are bashing science. Because science is what keeps proving time and time again that the vaccines are bad! For example, there was a disclosure by the creator of the polio vaccine itself, Dr. Jonas Salk, where he said that analysis indicates that the live virus vaccine in use since the 1960's is the principle, if not sole cause of all polio cases since 1961."Polio was pretty obscure before the twentieth century. There'd been some outbreaks in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, and most victims had been under the age of four".
Note that these polio epidemics in earlier centuries ended on their own without the Salk and Sabin Vaccines. The polio link is www.informedchoice.info...

Oh, sorry.. .back to the smallpox study conclusion you can find on the link above. Here is the conclusion from a study in the 1800's you can look at on smallpox..

CONCLUSION FROM THE EVIDENCE.

The result of this brief enquiry may be thus summarized

(I.)-Vaccination does not diminish Smallpox mortality, as shown by the 45 years of the Registrar-General's statistics, and by the deaths from Small-pox of our "re-vaccinated" soldiers and sailors being as numerous as those of the male population of the same ages of several of our large towns, although the former are picked, healthy men, while the latter include many thousands living under the most unsanitary conditions.

(2.)-While thus utterly powerless for good, vaccination * is a certain cause of disease and death in many cases, and is the probable cause of about 10,000 deaths annually by five inoculable diseases of the most terrible and disgusting character, which have increased to this extent, steadily, year by year, since vaccination has been enforced by penal laws!

*the operation itself kills many. the registrar-General gives, under the heading of Cow-pox and other effects [erysipelas, &c.] of vaccination for the years 1881-1886, the following deaths of infants under one year. In the country, 255 deaths. In London, 61. Total for 6 years, 316.--ED.

(3.)-The hospital statistics, showing a greater mortality of the unvaccinated than of the vaccinated, have been proved to be untrustworthy; while the conclusions drawn from them are shown to be necessarily false.


WE, THEREFORE, SOLEMNLY URGE UPON YOU THE IMMEDIATE REPEAL OF THE INIQUITOUS REPEAL LAWS BY WHICH YOU HAVE FORCED UPON US A DANGEROUS AND USELESS OPERATION-AN OPERATION WHICH HAS ADMITTEDLY CAUSED MANY DEATHS, WHICH IS PROBABLY THE CAUSE OF GREATER MORTALITY THAN SMALL-POX ITSELF, BUT WHICH CANNOT BE PROVED TO HAVE EVER SAVED A SINGLE HUMAN LIFE.

So many links and studies, so little time.....Happy reading ; )

reply to post by carabao


Please make sure you get a flu vaccine this year

Well, I was on the fence with vaccinating my future children...

But NOW, now that Aloysius the Gaul made a thread about it, I KNOW that vaccines are bad.

Thank you again Aloysius for proving that once more, not following ANY of your opinions is beneficial for me and everyone I know.

Originally posted by carabao
Greatest quotes from this thread:

"aluminium in the anti anti-perspirant", (guess there's a conspiracy there... I can smell it).

"ausburgers syndrome", (named after inbreeding in the famous German Ausburger family).

aaaaand.....

"colon telescopy" (ouch, but still better than the very painfull "colon observatory").

gogo you anti vaccination people, you are allmost as amusing as the chemtrail crowd.

I must have missed the post about aluminum in antiperspirant. I quoted the CDC saying it is in vaccines though. I don't care who Aspergers is named after. It's still a very real syndrome. So. you feel a need to make fun of a very real and dangerous problem that is mainly suffered by small children? It is called intussuseption and is a very serious condition. The description is:" Intussusception occurs when one portion of the bowel slides into the next, much like the pieces of a telescope." So make fun all you want. You quoted someone making an accurate description.

reply to post by Shiloh7
i agree with you. i had chicken pox during the summer and didn't miss any school. however, i missed my entire first week of high school due to getting mumps after getting the vaccine! i remember being very angry about that. my grandfather almost died after an influenza vaccine. my son is high-functioning autistic. had i gotten him the full compliment of vaccinations, i'm quite sure he would be worse off.
one of our problems today, is that we do not have the quality relationship with fresh herbs and essential oils that we once had. our immune systems are compromised by this. add to that all the environmental factors like heavy metals in our air and water, the fact that we are no longer terribly active throughout our days and the chemicals we put in and on our bodies, i'm impressed that we are still here!
i don't know if this church was throwing a "measles party", but it is not terribly alarming to me. i'm far more alarmed by the long-term effects of McDonald's "food" and the use of fluoride in our municipal waters.

reply to post by rickymouse


I used to suffer from that daily, allergy meds did help, but as you mentioned, they only slowed it down. I then went to coconut oil and that worked as well as the allergy meds, taking 3 tablespoons daily.

Now, I use the liposomal vitamin C daily, with great results. Here is the link if you haven't seen it. The liposomal vitamin C thread, ATS.

After certain foods, mostly sweets, I can actually feel the drain start so I just take more vitamin C. I am doing good staying away from a lot of the bad foods and lost close to 100lbs in two years from a change in diet alone, no exercise. I also supplement with the other vitamins and minerals as well, the ones I can't get from my diet.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I posted the very studies, go search them and read them yourself. You seem to think medicine is about healing people and that might be the altruistic reason bright eyes young men and women go to medical school, but let one of them not preach the allowed science and watch their career get destroyed.

On the topic of cancer research, one man did find a really great way to combat it, and he was sued, ridiculed, and all while tied up in court they actually stole his freaking patents! He was a highly respected member of the medical community before he left the cult of the AMA allowed sciences. Then overnight he was a nut, a whack job, and despite his numerous PROVEN cures, his science has been hidden and wiped out. There is just too much money in big pharma and oncology. Can you imagine if tomorrow I developed a cure that cost no more than two cents to cure any disease how quickly I would be

A. arrested for practicing medicine without a license,

B. my research and product destroyed and shelved for none to see

C. killed if I persisted in getting the news out

This is all about big business. The whole H1N1 vaccine scare where they called it a Pandemic with fewer cases than the normal flu season and had that vaccine gotten out would probably have killed millions had it not been for an obscure lab in the Czeck Republic doing the test of the vaccine batch that PROVED it was contaminated with deadly agents! All the ferrets died who were given the vaccine. ALL of them.

The medical journalist who had great credentials before all of this was ridiculed, lambasted and her career destroyed. God bless Jane Bergermeister who alerted the world and what ever came of that Pandemic? NOTHING... it was all a plan to spend billions of dollars on a crap vaccine to poison us.



How was Jane treated? She was institutionalized falsely and they tried to force drugs on her to mess up her brain and make her nuts.

Swine Flu (H1N1) - Pandemic or Bioterrorism

Why The WHO Faked A Pandemic

The World Health Organization has suddenly gone from crying "The sky is falling!" like a cackling Chicken Little to squealing like a stuck pig. The reason: charges that the agency deliberately fomented swine flu hysteria. "The world is going through a real pandemic. The description of it as a fake is wrong and irresponsible," the agency claims on its Web site.

A WHO spokesman declined to specify who or what gave this "description," but the primary accuser is hard to ignore. The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE), a human rights watchdog, is publicly investigating the WHO’s motives in declaring a pandemic. Indeed, the chairman of its influential health committee, epidemiologist Wolfgang Wodarg, has declared that the "false pandemic" is "one of the greatest medicine scandals of the century."

Even within the agency, the director of the WHO Collaborating Center for Epidemiology in Munster, Germany, Dr. Ulrich Kiel, has essentially labeled the pandemic a hoax. "We are witnessing a gigantic misallocation of resources [$18 billion so far] in terms of public health," he said.

They’re right. This wasn’t merely over cautiousness or simple misjudgment. The pandemic declaration and all the Klaxon-ringing since reflect sheer dishonesty motivated not by medical concerns but political ones.

Unquestionably, swine flu has proved to be vastly milder than ordinary seasonal flu. It kills at a third to a tenth the rate, according to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates. Data from other countries like France and Japan indicate it’s far tamer than that.

YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE FROM THE FLU! TAKE THE VACCINE NOW, NOW NOW NOW!!!!!

"But, sir, who has died? How many? What about the ferrets that all died from the vaccine?"

SHUT UP YOU DAMN FOOL! THERE IS NO BAD VACCINE! YOU ARE ALL GOING TO DIE, DIE, DIE!!!!

"Um, sir, where are all the dead bodies from this pandemic?

ARREST HER! PUT HER IN AN ASYLUM!!!! SEIG HEIL!!!!

Folks, you are being lied to by the World Health Organization, their obedient minions who are abundant in this thread, and those who are going to make a killing in more ways than one! Just what happened with that H1N1 vaccine they tried to scare us into taking:



Fricking hypocrites!



Doctor retracts his recommendation on H1N1



What do these adjuvants do?





Doctor admits how deadly vaccines are

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


I think the problem is here.... I don't have a Medical Doctorate. Nor do you, unless you've held back on mentioning a game changing detail in a casual debate. There is a difference though. I know this and approach the debate as though I still have more to learn than I have to share.

You've talking down to me and others like you're not just a doctor, but *THE* Doctor on record for expert statements on this matter. The Hyperbole, even if you were making good points, isn't something I really care to try reading through (and your points aren't good, in my view, to begin with).

I have found common ground with a good many people in these medical debates...but that is exclusive to the people looking to debate. You've apparently made up your mind to the point where your confident enough to lecture and talk down.

(It reminds me of the flaming idiots who are cheeky enough to deny Smoking has a negative health impact....as they take a cigarette break from typing every so often. )

Okay... Well, I'll leave you to it with people who tolerate it better than I do. When experts talk down to me? It's educational. When people of similar or equal background do? It's rude, as the kindest and most T&C approved description I can adapt for the family environment.

*One more note... Nothing...but NOTHING in medicine works in absolutes except that cessation of life signs absolutely means you've died. Everything else is termed practice in the overall sense....because it IS. In areas like this? That inherent lack of certainty to absolute knowledge is critical to understand and appreciate the field, IMHO.

reply to post by Laxpla


Sigh. I'll just leave THIS here.

If it doesn't already, please skip to 11:26. It might be of particular interest.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
But this is what comes with anti-science, psuedo-science, and mindless religion - not all religions are as extreme as this of course, but it does seem that more and more people are choosing ones that are!

Er, yes they are. Some parts of Islam kill people for vaccinating people – the Taliban are notoriously nasty to health workers. Other Islamic organisations such as the Islamic Medical Association would like return to the Middle Ages for us all. ...

This is a terrible situation for all those people who have exposed themselves to a dangerous disease. Unfortunately, most are likely to be persuaded that they got measles as a lesson!

Regards

Originally posted by ArchAngel_X
Although I would never consider myself anti-vaccination and honestly believe there are major benefits to global vaccination efforts - polio is a great example - I also can't help but think we as a society are starting to rely on vaccination it for diseases and illnesses that in my opinion are not serious enough to warrant it, such as influenza and chickenpox.

And tetnus, because they want to protect your baby from getting cut on a rusty piece of metal. and cervical cancer, which thousands of girls in the US and India have died from or become permanently disabled from.

Aluminum? Formaldehyde? Mercury? And what other toxic industrial material that has no business going into the human body? I would be cool with vaccinations if they did not put crap LIKE THIS into it. But for some reason, they insist on it.