It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is the POORs hatred of WEALTHY ($$$) people legitimate and morally justifiable?

page: 6
15
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 01:12 AM
link   
I don't think the poor all necessarily hate the rich-rather they have nore reason to hate the unfairness of life.

As a child growing up poor,I did not hate my more affluent friends-for some reason the well-off kids always seemed to like me.I remember a dear friend from a wealthy family,who took me along on holiday,who would Walk 3/ 4 miles from Welgemoed,one of the wealthiest areas in our small city-down to the industrial area on the wrong side of the tracks,to come visit with me.Spend her breaktimes with me exclusively,instead of with the other wealthy kids from her neighbourhood.

I did sadly envy them,the rich kids,for things like living in a normal neighbourhood,pools in their gardens,holidays+trips to interesting places-funds for a university education,etc-but I never hated them.

Now,as an adult mother of 3 children-i am sad that there is no money to ever take a family holiday,or go out+do things(in my country petrol is now going at 14ZAR per LITRE) but there's no point in hating those who got a better deal this time round.And wealth does not protect against cancer,loss of loved ones,a spouse cheating on you+then discarding you for a third party,many examples along those lines.No amount of money can fix a life shattered by tragedy or chronic ill health-or a life made unhappy b y factors that has nothing to do with your bank balance.There was a time when my husband earned good money+so I do have a tiny bit of experience about this-believe me,no possessions,no shopping can fix certain issues that cause the unhappiness you are trying to alleviate with "retail therapy"
As the great Joe Strummer said in The Clash's song "My daddy was a Bankrobber" - "Some is rich,some is poor,that's the way the world goes/works"
The challenge is finding things that make you happy amidst poverty-not hating those who were dealt an excellent hand-try to play your own crappy cards as well you can-that is All you can do,if you are poor.
I think the poor envy the choices+opportunities the rich have,the better quality of life,its not hatred,just a sad +tired-of-neverending worries-and-battling envy.There is a difference between envy+hate.I envy my husband's rich boss the holidays they take,the freedom from anxiously waiting for payday-but I certainly don't hate him for his wealth.I dislike him a bit,not much,just a bit-but because he can be a bit of a prick sometimes,not for his wealth+easy life.




posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 01:57 AM
link   
Yes it is...when a wealthy person assumes that any behaviour of thiers is somehow excusable by dent of that wealth (regardless of how they acquired it)...

...what seems to happen is that wealth magnifies temerity, while somehow wiping out the empathetic sensibility...an ad hoc class attitude is bred and grows like a virus in the cohunas...it becomes the legitimate right of the wealthy to concomitantly berate the lazy, stupid proles while getting them to earn thier right to even be in the same world as them...

...and I have met many wealthy people who had hearts of pure gold...

Å99



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 03:12 AM
link   
reply to post by AthlonSavage
 



I'm not one to judge but if I have to I'd say that a poor person who hates a rich person because of his wealth is just a rich person with no money; were if he had wealth he would probably hate the poor.

On the other hand there are many people who have all the true wealth they could ever ask for and love all, even those close to being penniless.

The top 1 % have no real wealth at least when it comes to physical wealth. They are just pretending to be rich, really all they have is a house of cards they draw collateral from. A few years ago a rich billionaire committed suicide because he lost a fortune and was left with the horrible news that he was now only a millionaire.

I'll take a roof over my head, beans in the belly, and friends and family for any amount if paper any day.

The Rat.
edit on 26-8-2013 by TucoTheRat because: great balls of fire!



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 07:46 AM
link   
reply to post by Raxoxane
 


but the RICH actually pay other people.. via investments.

To ENSURE the poor get the crappy hand..

and the Rich continue having the life everyone should.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 07:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by akushla99
Yes it is...when a wealthy person assumes that any behaviour of thiers is somehow excusable by dent of that wealth (regardless of how they acquired it)...

...what seems to happen is that wealth magnifies temerity, while somehow wiping out the empathetic sensibility...an ad hoc class attitude is bred and grows like a virus in the cohunas...it becomes the legitimate right of the wealthy to concomitantly berate the lazy, stupid proles while getting them to earn thier right to even be in the same world as them...

...and I have met many wealthy people who had hearts of pure gold...

Å99


to sleep at night with MILLIONS in wealth while so many children suffer needlessly?

I SPIT ON ALL OF THEM... and will do all I can to help others SEE the TRUE ENEMY!

the ELites = the RICH!! ffs

quit making excuses for their greed, and the world's suffering while they PROFIT OFF OF IT!!



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 07:50 AM
link   
reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


Most of US "POOR" people are too busy trying to make a living to hate anuone.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 10:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by TucoTheRat


I'm not one to judge but if I have to I'd say that a poor person who hates a rich person because of his wealth is just a rich person with no money; were if he had wealth he would probably hate the poor.

On the other hand there are many people who have all the true wealth they could ever ask for and love all, even those close to being penniless.

The top 1 % have no real wealth at least when it comes to physical wealth. They are just pretending to be rich, really all they have is a house of cards they draw collateral from. A few years ago a rich billionaire committed suicide because he lost a fortune and was left with the horrible news that he was now only a millionaire.

I'll take a roof over my head, beans in the belly, and friends and family for any amount if paper any day.

The Rat.


I agree, you know that it seems everyone envies those with more. The guy in the 2 million dollar house and 42 foot boat envies the guy with the 60 foot boat near him. It is just the poor have a lot more to envy even to the point that the guy with an empty belly envies the guy with a full one.

As I have said many times I don't care who has more than me I just care that I can provide well for my family. I live an upper middle class life (after I turned 40) and I worked hard to get there. This doesn't mean that one day I might be in a small apartment like back in the days when I was in my 20s, but I hope not and I continue to work hard to give me the best chance it doesn't happen.

One thing I have never done is blame anyone else for my life failures. They are my failures no matter what life rules are. I don't blame the rich for anything, but yes I do understand a percentage are asses and a percentage step on people to get ahead, but it is that way for the poor too. I guess I have a hard time hating one guy that provides 500 jobs at a lower salary than what we might think is correct over a guy that spends his whole life sucking off the system.

Everyone of you have a different life story so I'm not here to say what you did in life was the best you could or whether "the system" screwed you over no matter what you did, but what I see across society is the blame game that blames everything and everyone but themselves for where they are in life at this point.

It is your life and a lifetime of bad decisions leads to an unhappy life....if one looks back at major points in their lives I would be surprised if there was a rich person to blame at every major crossroad in one's life that went badly.


edit on 26-8-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 02:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by Xtrozero


I would love a Star Trek utopia where no one gets paid and everything they want is available to them in the form of a replicator, so people just follow their dreams and ambitions, but we are not there yet.




funny you should mention that. because while i was developing the following system i had not a clue about it being present in the star trek series. someone else had pointed that out to me only earlier this year when i asked them to comment on the plan.

they presented me with this in full support.




so ive created a thread here, to see ats direction of thought and discussion on the matter.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 08:54 PM
link   
I think it's justifiable the rich can't seem to get rich enough, they like flaunting it too to some people in this country who are struggling through on a month to month basis. I mean it's terribly unfair that a certain group of people have more money than they know what do with, can't seem to get enough money always looking for ways to get even more, and then there's the group I'm in the money doesn't even last the whole month, and I'm always scrounging to make it through the whole month.This is the worst year ever.

edit on 26-8-2013 by 1loserel2 because: add

edit on 26-8-2013 by 1loserel2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 01:24 AM
link   
reply to post by 1loserel2
 

I'm right there with you,in that situation-when you feel down+tired into the depths of your soul of the neverending battling-please remember you're not alone,there are so many people in the same boat.Here's a hug from one weary poor to another((:-))


One thing I will thank poverty for,on a brighter note-it made me discover my creativity-i would for instance see a nice cat ornament I could'nt afford-so that set me thinking how I could make my own.So I find a discarded glass bottle+cover it with papier-mache(newspaper,a soft paper of any kind,I used toilet paper,actually)and wet it with a mix of water that has some glue added to it.Feneigled it into a cat shape,complete with ears-toilet paper gives the best results because its more pliable than newspaper,for adding appendages like tails+ears.When dry,I used cheap craftpaint to paint markings+a face-then sprayed the finished painted ornament with translucent sheer gloss spraypaint-and it would look as any ornament in a shop+with the added bonus you can customise the colors exactly to match the area where you would place the ornament.Make a few extra,and sell it at fleamarket/roadside stalls,craftshops etc-and you have a bit of extra income.Although we're poor my house looked like a craftshop,in fact it was known here where I live,that my house was as colorfully+interestingly decorated as an eclectic art gallery-for next to nothing in financial outlay.

If I was in a position to just buy anything I wanted-i would Still never have known that I had an ounce of creative talent in me-i can literally take a rock+make an awesome funky/beautifully artistic paperweight or doorstop out of it.Once the creative toothpaste is outa the tube-you never ever look at even the most mundane objects the same way again.And I have poverty to thank-it opened up a whole new world to me.They say need is the mother of invention,well,poverty coupled with a desire to also have some nice things to make your home cheerful+cosy, can with just a bit of thought,turn you into an arts+craftsperson who may actually make an added income.
Just an idea,in case anyone benefits and it sets them on the creative road.
Now I would never buy something I can make myself,even if I could well afford it.Playing a crappy hand can surprisingly be fun-it does'nt make up for the sadness of some other aspects of poverty,but in this life,you gotta be thankfull for the little things that does bring fulfillment+happiness.
edit on 27-8-2013 by Raxoxane because: wall of text



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 03:12 AM
link   
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I agree Xtrozero,

People need to remember that there is nothing wrong with wealth, being rich is not a sin. More rich people do more for starving Africans than the poor in the west, who BTW are billionaires compared to starving Africans.

I mean don't get me wrong I think banks suck and corporations are crap those are not rich people and of course there are going to be bad eggs in the rich, there are bad eggs everywhere.

But the reality of it is, we are all rich, we all have more than others, we all have gifts that we squander, throw on the floor and cry about because someone else has better. But each and every one of us has it all, always.



If you hate than you need to change something, you need to change the only thing you can change, the man or woman in the mirror.......SHAMONE!

The Rat.

edit on 27-8-2013 by TucoTheRat because: make that change...



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 03:31 AM
link   
I had relatives I used to go see, my own age, off and on through life.

When I was working two jobs and in college they were partying. When I was later working one job under hard conditions they assured me they'd never put up with it. When I was later working that job plus another 40 hours a week training myself on computer stuff (newish back then) they found that real disinteresting. When I was later working 1.5 jobs and going to school at night and commuting all day and exhausted they assured me I had to slow down. When I was later working one job and two more on the side for different experience, they laughed at how I was a workaholic.

And then when I had a nice apartment and car and a responsible job with decent pay and I genuinely liked and was challenged by my work, they said, "You're so lucky." WTF does luck have to do with it? I asked them. We had a whole argument about it. As far as they were concerned, the magical mystery of life had fallen out of the sky onto me with no reason whatever, and now they were either on welfare or working minimum wage jobs and I seemed to have it all comparatively. I insisted to them that for years and years, I had dealt with situations they assured me they never would have, I worked at jobs they assured me they were too good for, I spent immense time training myself to do things they'd never bother with, and eventually many years later we had very different lives. Ironically I'd even offered over the years to help them, spend some time training them, help them with a resume if they wanted to look for a better job, but they weren't interested.

But now I was LUCKY. And they were jealous.

There is a saying, "Success is a matter of luck. Ask any failure."

I might add that I've also been hideously poor at times, and given the economy it could happen again, and I've known many people who had a lot of 'help' from parents -- paying for college, getting them good jobs, and so on. It's not equal in our society, of course it's not.

But even when I was worst off, I tried to focus on "a plan" for how to make things better. And I've worked harder than just about anybody I know, and longer, and that on top of being a single mom the last 17 years.

I'm blessed as hell to have whatever I have. I'm so grateful to have a job it's ridiculous, and sometimes I work 20 hours a day because I want my boss to know that he could not possibly find anybody more dedicated to the cause to employ. And will that help? I don't know. And is that fair? I don't know. I just know it's a matter of priorities and my job, aside from my child and my 'inner/spiritual work,' is mine.

Blessed and fortunate, I am. "Merely lucky," however, I am not.

I think if more people didn't expect the world to owe them a good living, and were willing to put the sheer time into working and training or educating themselves on the side, and willing to put in the often many years of effort it takes, that they would see the results of this. Maybe it doesn't work for everybody. But it worked for me. Not immediately, and there've been so many bad times, but I think I'd like to believe that if one is truly dedicated to better themselves in this regard, that eventually, it works out.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 03:55 AM
link   
reply to post by RedCairo
 


Great story I liked reading it and could almost see the arguments happening between your "well to do" relatives and yourself. You are right however as your hard efforts paid off and while the assumptions they (spoilt relatives) made of being carried for life were falsely realised in reality.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 04:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by HanzHenry

Originally posted by akushla99
Yes it is...when a wealthy person assumes that any behaviour of thiers is somehow excusable by dent of that wealth (regardless of how they acquired it)...

...what seems to happen is that wealth magnifies temerity, while somehow wiping out the empathetic sensibility...an ad hoc class attitude is bred and grows like a virus in the cohunas...it becomes the legitimate right of the wealthy to concomitantly berate the lazy, stupid proles while getting them to earn thier right to even be in the same world as them...

...and I have met many wealthy people who had hearts of pure gold...

Å99


to sleep at night with MILLIONS in wealth while so many children suffer needlessly?

I SPIT ON ALL OF THEM... and will do all I can to help others SEE the TRUE ENEMY!

the ELites = the RICH!! ffs

quit making excuses for their greed, and the world's suffering while they PROFIT OFF OF IT!!


Ya...I think you jumped on me there for no reason...I was pointing out that, even though everyone can have an attitude
the more money you get, the more macho that attitude can become...to the point where the dream has overtaken reality (as in, many children suffering while lining thier own coffins with greenbacks)...

...and when I mentioned wealthy with a heart of gold, I meant it...keeping thier 'stocks' of wealth to a degree that allows them to live a normal life, while handing money out to truly help the less fortunate...and this is an interesting phrase...because these gold-hearters really do understand what a fortunate position they are in...the one's you are talking about, with that rant (that seemed somehow directed at me) simply have no grasp of reality, or any care...why would they?...and I don't (by any stretch of the imagination) consider them ELITE in any way...if anything, you should scrub this word from your lexicon...it actually sounds good to a rich person...leech would be better...

Å99
edit on 27-8-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 04:58 AM
link   
"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered."
-Proverbs 21:13

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."
-Matthew 6:24

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'"
-Matthew 19:23-24

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'"
-Matthew 25:41-45

"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished."
-Proverbs 17:5

"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich--both come to poverty."
-Proverbs 22:16

"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'"
-Matthew 19:21

"He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses."
-Proverbs 28:27

"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
-1 Timothy 6:9-10

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
-Ezekiel 16:49

"The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern."
-Proverbs 29:7

"Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death."
-Proverbs 11:4

"Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the LORD will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them."
-Proverbs 22:22-23

"Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless."
-Ecclesiastes 5:10

"Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have."
-Hebrews 13:5

"A rich man may be wise in his own eyes, but a poor man who has discernment sees through him."
-Proverbs 28:11

"A fortune made by a lying tongue is a fleeting vapor and a deadly snare."
-Proverbs 21:6

"The wealth of the rich is their fortified city; they imagine it an unscalable wall."
-Proverbs 18:11

And for my own quote. We all reap what we seed and Karma is a bitch.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 05:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by RedCairo

But even when I was worst off, I tried to focus on "a plan" for how to make things better. And I've worked harder than just about anybody I know, and longer, and that on top of being a single mom the last 17 years.

I'm blessed as hell to have whatever I have. I'm so grateful to have a job it's ridiculous, and sometimes I work 20 hours a day because I want my boss to know that he could not possibly find anybody more dedicated to the cause to employ. And will that help? I don't know. And is that fair? I don't know. I just know it's a matter of priorities and my job, aside from my child and my 'inner/spiritual work,' is mine.

Blessed and fortunate, I am. "Merely lucky," however, I am not.

I think if more people didn't expect the world to owe them a good living, and were willing to put the sheer time into working and training or educating themselves on the side, and willing to put in the often many years of effort it takes, that they would see the results of this. Maybe it doesn't work for everybody. But it worked for me. Not immediately, and there've been so many bad times, but I think I'd like to believe that if one is truly dedicated to better themselves in this regard, that eventually, it works out.


I can relate to your story but am probably a little less successful. Not getting any use from my 4 year university degree in Europe when the IT bubble happened was a real destroyer of my plans.

Been the high achiever myself at work and depending on what company it has had different outcome.

First example is a company where I was promoted 2 times but left for higher wage on another job.

In one company the view and what you say about what you do, is more important than doing the work. Since I was very bad at advertising and was focused on the workload instead I did not get anything out from my performance. Funny when 2 persons in a team give their all, and do 80% of the work while the other 3 did 20%. Can be quite demoralizing to keep up high work ethics when not all are at least doing their best and you come home exhausted from the workload.

The last company is a company where the boss had a clue and really noticed my performance, but there I work in a team of high tech consultants, who do their own thing and do not need to be at all micromanaged to do the things that need to be done.

I am not justifying people who are being lazy (either rich or poor). The wealthy i dislike are the ones who can sit on their ass do nothing and just see the money flow in on others peoples work. That is a parasitical thing and when the body becomes infected by parasites who will not stop sucking up everything then you get a body that in the end dies. What you are seeing around you in the world is the death of the economy and a lot of people trying to give it cpr to keep it alive.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 05:58 AM
link   
reply to post by RedCairo
 



Hello Redcairo,

But it is a matter of being blessed for sure. And it would not hurt to consider yourself lucky or even thankful that those around you did not and most likely will not work as hard or as smart as you have to get to where you are or that spot might have been filled by one of them if competing for a job.

Imagine being born in a country like Japan or China where the work ideals are equivalent to being a cast citizen. You work and shut up, study every day and never sleep or work in a sweatshop (well in the case of China). I mean honestly us in the west are like welfare sloths compared to how hard the people in India, China, Japan, and both Koreas work.

Here you have to kill yourself to get ahead while in other countries take it to a whole other level. So I say, be grateful that people are lazy enough to let you get ahead. Competition is competition, the less the better and we already have our hands full with the east, well more like we are so screwed lol.

The Rat.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 05:59 AM
link   
reply to post by filledcup
 


What the name of star trek episode in first vid, the resource based economy I want to see whole episode.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 06:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by filledcup
 


What the name of star trek episode in first vid, the resource based economy I want to see whole episode.


not sure to be honest.. google is your friend.. lol



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 10:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by TucoTheRat
reply to post by RedCairo
 

Imagine being born in a country like Japan or China where the work ideals are equivalent to being a cast citizen. You work and shut up, study every day and never sleep or work in a sweatshop (well in the case of China). I mean honestly us in the west are like welfare sloths compared to how hard the people in India, China, Japan, and both Koreas work.

I agree. Actually when I see in movies, other countries, I find it horrifically depressing. People living on top of each other like rodents everything is so tiny and squished together, a standard of living we'd consider absolute poverty and it's not even unusual, and a situation where no matter how hard they work or study they may never get anywhere above the economic level they were born into. How incredibly demoralizing. It's one of the things that makes me feel like the USA and Canada offer a degree of "opportunity" impossible for much of the world to fathom and for which most our people are not nearly as appreciative as they probably should be.




top topics



 
15
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join