Is the POORs hatred of WEALTHY ($$$) people legitimate and morally justifiable?

When I was young I had a temp job at a high-end department store and it was really the first time I had ever been around rich people. Some of them were nice but a significant number or them were rude, impatient, insulting- a couple of people I witnessed throwing temper tantrums because they wanted something RIGHT NOW and not in 5 minutes. I went away from that job thinking "no wonder people hate the rich- they have so much to be grateful for yet so many of them are negative and hateful."

Of course there are bad people in all walks of life. There are bad poor people, bad middle class people, and bad rich people. There are also good people in every walk of life. You just have to remember that when you choose to hate a group of people you don't injure them nearly as much as you injure yourself with your negative thoughts. So stay positive! Don't focus on the fact that other people have more than you. Focus on what you can do to improve your life if you are not happy with it the way it is.

Sal

Originally posted by filledcup


minimum wage is problematic in itself. it serves as a safety against those who would decidedly give you 50 cents an hr if they could get away with it because of their greed. but also makes them feel justified in their capitalist transactions that they are following the law and as long as they are they have no motivation to raise their employees salaries out of the kindness of their heart.. lol

I agree that there should be no minimum wage jobs, but that comes down to what skill does the job need and how many people would be willing to do it.

but what is a minimum wage job? a garbage collector? while other "more important jobs" pay more? but where would a company be if the garbage collector refused to pick up the garbage? and it piles up outside the company attracting stench and disease from flies and bacteria? suddenly in that scenario the importance of the garbage collector is realized. in effect.. all the garbage collectors of the world can hold this entire capitalist system to ransom to the detriment of every living man woman and child. but they surely arent paid $30 an hour.

The average pay for a garbage collector is 22 dollars an hour or 43,000k per year. It is a physical/dangerous job that not everyone can do.

people should be paid for their time that they contribute to the development of society in any field. time should have the value. the human resource giving of it's time and energy away from home and family etc. if $30 an hr is a feasible and acceptible payment for a decent standard of living, then everyone should be paid at least $30 an hr. and noone should be working hard and still cannot afford basic comfort and financial independence.

Maybe, but what are you willing to pay for that hamburger that the 30 buck an hour flipper made? We have had low to high paying jobs for a 1000 years, why is it different today? Why is it different today than lets say 30 years ago?

What makes a job that anyone can do and needs one day of OJT to learn with zero responsibility worth 30 dollars?

I get your point, but I would not hire people because I want to pay them for their valued time they give me, I would hire people as to what they can provide to my company during that time that is scalable in pay to how much an asset they are.

One thing you need to think about is a person should provide labor that helps the company make profit and if that person's labor at 30 bucks an hour does not create gains for the company how does a company justify paying that if they are loosing money every hour that the person works?

Originally posted by SallieSunshine
When I was young I had a temp job at a high-end department store and it was really the first time I had ever been around rich people. Some of them were nice but a significant number or them were rude, impatient, insulting- a couple of people I witnessed throwing temper tantrums because they wanted something RIGHT NOW and not in 5 minutes. I went away from that job thinking "no wonder people hate the rich- they have so much to be grateful for yet so many of them are negative and hateful."

Of course there are bad people in all walks of life. There are bad poor people, bad middle class people, and bad rich people. There are also good people in every walk of life. You just have to remember that when you choose to hate a group of people you don't injure them nearly as much as you injure yourself with your negative thoughts. So stay positive! Don't focus on the fact that other people have more than you. Focus on what you can do to improve your life if you are not happy with it the way it is.

Sal

I would suggest that you go walk down some poor neighborhoods in a few big cities to get a taste of what the other side offer in comparison to the blue hair rich lady that is a bitch.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage

Is the POORs hatred of WEALTHY ($$$) people legitimate and morally justifiable?

I would imagine that someone's already enlightened you to this, but let me chime in a swell.

We, the poor, don't even know the wealthy, and we don't hate them. What we hate is that a small segment of the wealthy feel the need (probably due to their own fear of a zero-sum world) to make sure we stay poor and unable to challenge their hold on wealth and power by legitimate competition.

I'm assuming that you don't feel the downward pressure, so I won't expect you to agree or even understand what I'm suggesting here. It used to be that there was economic movement between strata within the US society, but over the last decade or so, that has changed. What's also changed is the resentment from the well-to-do against those who they perceive to be resentful of their wealth and success, and the growing inability of these well-to-do groups and individuals to mask that resentment in public.

There's no morality in wealth. There's no morality in poverty. If the impoverished decide to eliminate the wealthy, then it will simply be a direct result of their inability to perceive a reasonable option. No morality. Just simple survival of self and kind. A legitimate society establishes policies that will prevent this sort of periodic "wholesale wealth distribution event" by installing ladders between economic levels, and placing a poverty floor beneath those who are not capable of successfully competing for available wealth. If those minimum measures have been eliminated or diminished, then it's society's failure to protect its own against the upheavals that will naturally follow.

If the poor actually hated the wealthy, the wealthy would already be dead. 1% can't defend itself against 40%. No army on earth could save that 1% if the poor in this nation decided that they'd had enough of their sh*t. This is why we Progressives are battling against the idiocy that's seized the rightwing. We're just trying to stop the 1% and their GOP sidekicks from destroying themselves.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I agree that there should be no minimum wage jobs, but that comes down to what skill does the job need and how many people would be willing to do it.

i think most people would work any job as long as they know that when the pay check comes in it can do something worthwhile for them and their family. so as much as most people may not want to be garbage collectors today because of the degraded view of garbage collectors, if u offer them 100k a year they would quickly change their view. after all.. who needs to give a f*k what anyone thinks when ur driving in ur new BMW right? lol

The average pay for a garbage collector is 22 dollars an hour or 43,000k per year. It is a physical/dangerous job that not everyone can do.

good, and they had to do just what i mentioned earlier to get it up to that level. they had to strike and leave garbage piling up on the streets before a pay raise each time was instituted. inflation gets too high.. ppl's money do less for them and they want coverage. and by me they deserve it for the crap decisions made by government arent their fault

Maybe, but what are you willing to pay for that hamburger that the 30 buck an hour flipper made? We have had low to high paying jobs for a 1000 years, why is it different today? Why is it different today than lets say 30 years ago?

i understand the problem here. let me elaborate. minimum wage should be constantly raised to combat inflation. im not saying jump from $9 an hr or whatever it is now to a full $30-$50 an hr over night. but gradual increases with the objective of creating an economy where the lowest paying jobs still afford those in them a respectable level of dignity when they walk the streets. a man holding a job working 12 hrs a day and doing his best shouldnt be looked down upon because he cant afford say an iphone. or his clothes are tattered. or that he still uses an old jalopy and crt television.he should be able to afford his basic needs with comfort.

but i think governments have avoided this objective. the corporation threaten to let go staff if they are forced to pay more because they are only interested in seeing larger profit margins. but there is a limit to what can be acquired just like there is a limit to how much oil can be stored in the earth. one day it will run out.. and that day, everyone will be angry with the corporations which needs no food to eat and water to drink, yet real flesh and blood ppl are starving.

the sacrifice is on the part of the corporation. not to give away its entire profit margin.. but i mean.. come on.. if you employ 100 staff at a location. each paid minimum wage. and the services they facilitate for your company has generated net profit of 1 million dollars a month for the year. how hard is it to increase their salaries by a few more bucks and say keep a profit margin of 750k per month instead of 1 mill. and as they perform as happy workers the business thrives even more to 2 million a month, and another 250k can be dispensed in salaries. im not saying become a pauper to make everyone happy. far from it. just give back what you can give 'comfortably' to those who have devoted their time.

some legal restructuring may be required so that in effect if profit margins drop then so too must the employee salaries, since they benefit when profit margins rise. and they should not object to that. in being fair to them we must be fair to the corporation owners as well. but some will refuse to give back anything.. simply because.. they can.

What makes a job that anyone can do and needs one day of OJT to learn with zero responsibility worth 30 dollars?

I get your point, but I would not hire people because I want to pay them for their valued time they give me, I would hire people as to what they can provide to my company during that time that is scalable in pay to how much an asset they are.

alot of ppl are facing stress of the real world. and in the end it boils right back down to money. the wife is nagging. the kids need new bookbags and books, the car needs servicing, the price of groceries keeps going up and salary stays the same. this stress will translate into the work environment. so someone who is stressed from the need for money is damned because they need money.. lol. while the person who is from a more financially secure family and background will be less stressed and better able to focus on their job is rewarded for their good attitude. theyre just lucky! and so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. because the poor man is too financially stressed by his immediate needs that he is unable to give the focus to the job that he can if he was more financially stable.

i believe i answered the last question in my previous paragraph - giving where it can be afforded, in reasonable limits not to become a pauper or ruin ur business, and regulating salaries based on profit margins.

Stress is the number one KILLER!


financial binds are the NUMBER one cause of STRESS..


this could be how the ELites are culling and limiting growth.?

only a fool would think "just gotta study harder/work harder, don't worry that there aren't enough chairs to go around.

Do what it takes to get one, and F the other poor saps.. they just aren't as good as me?'

feel GOOOOD that you have that job and the other 5,000 don't. I mean you have to be better right?

nothing wrong, see! you got yours! what else matters?

reply to post by filledcup


Investors are like LEECHES.. they suck and suck..

how can a company:
1. pay current staff a living wage?
2. pay for an ever expanding pool of retirees who had opportunity in their time unlike today
3. pay investors back MORE THAN THEY PUT IN
4. pay operating expenses
5. AND compete globally where that other guy can be paid $3/hr cause a house there isn't so fricking expensive!

It CAN'T. the imbalance pendulum ------> ultra wealthy = ultra poor.... as long as GREED RULES ALL.. we will ALWAYS have GREEDY people at the TOP!

when Integrity rules all, when ? yeah when?

reply to post by HanzHenry


Matthew 6

New International Version (NIV)
Giving to the Needy

6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.’

14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Fasting

16 “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Treasures in Heaven

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,[c] your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy,[d] your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Do Not Worry

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

have faith, and persevere through resisting temptation and you will not have to worry about these things. also you will find solace in having all that you need and not seek to fill the empty gaping hole in your life by acquiring more and more riches through greed.

Originally posted by opethPA
I am of the belief that their needs to be class competition.
Not everyone is capable or willing to do what it takes to be successfully, financially viable or whatever measure of being wealthy people want to apply.

Their are horrible, evil people that kill, rape, steal and general do terrible things and are poor in life just like their are wealthy people that do those same things.

I am not saying this is the point of the OP but I do not understand the desire some on ATS have to vilify someone for being successful or happy professionally. I don't understand why some folks here assume that being homeless is somehow more noble then living in a nice house.

All that being said... I don't think a poor person should hate a wealthy person nor do i think a wealthy person should hate a poor person.. Both groups should despise the criminals that exist in both types , and everything in between, of life.

Competition in an UNFAIR environment is ------- get ready for it ------> unfair.. yeah PROMOTE THAT.. good MORALITY you have there!

Imagine you owner a pack of hunting dogs that did most of the work. Now, you can feed them all well and provide a good life.. OR, you can SAVE MONEY -------->i.e. INCREASE PROFIT!!! by having the dogs "COMPETE" for scraps.. sure, there WONT be ENOUGH to go around.. but hey, the dog that "works hardest" will get food....

and those other ones... they just didn't work/study hard enough! maybe tomorrow when they are MORE FAMISHED, they will EARN IT!!

great mentality! Me and Mine... that's all that matters...


Love the new attitude so many have, so much easier and less strenuous than doing something for someone WITHOUT seeking reward..

I worked my share of crappy low-paying jobs- even with a college degree. I lived in fear of my car breaking down because I had no extra money for repairs and no credit cards. More than once I pawned my sewing machine so I could pay a bill or buy a box of oatmeal. Once I only had a couple of dollars in my bank account and I needed it to buy food - the bank wouldn't give it to me- the only way I could get it was to close my account so that is what I did. So yes I've been through some hard times where I was scraping by. I thought to myself "hmmmm, how can I remedy this situation? I know! I'll go back to school and get a degree that qualifies me for a higher-paying job." So that is what I did- got a student loan and went back to school. Now I don't have to worry so much about getting things fixed when they break down. Hating the rich and moaning about how little you make isn't going to make your life better. You either have to reduce your costs somehow so that you are comfortable with the salary you make, get yourself a part-time job in addition to your full-time job, or get some training so that you will qualify for a higher paying job. Heck there are millions of enterprising illegal aliens in this country with their own businesses- they work as maids, landscapers, food truck owners--- they work hard because they started at the bottom with nothing but the will to succeed. Some of them only have a few sentences of English that they know and yet they make more money than some American who flips burgers for a living and whines about it.

Sal


from filled cup:
alot of ppl are facing stress of the real world. and in the end it boils right back down to money. the wife is nagging. the kids need new bookbags and books, the car needs servicing, the price of groceries keeps going up and salary stays the same. this stress will translate into the work environment. so someone who is stressed from the need for money is damned because they need money.. lol. while the person who is from a more financially secure family and background will be less stressed and better able to focus on their job is rewarded for their good attitude. theyre just lucky!

Originally posted by SallieSunshine
I worked my share of crappy low-paying jobs- even with a college degree. I lived in fear of my car breaking down because I had no extra money for repairs and no credit cards. More than once I pawned my sewing machine so I could pay a bill or buy a box of oatmeal. Once I only had a couple of dollars in my bank account and I needed it to buy food - the bank wouldn't give it to me- the only way I could get it was to close my account so that is what I did. So yes I've been through some hard times where I was scraping by. I thought to myself "hmmmm, how can I remedy this situation? I know! I'll go back to school and get a degree that qualifies me for a higher-paying job." So that is what I did- got a student loan and went back to school. Now I don't have to worry so much about getting things fixed when they break down. Hating the rich and moaning about how little you make isn't going to make your life better. You either have to reduce your costs somehow so that you are comfortable with the salary you make, get yourself a part-time job in addition to your full-time job, or get some training so that you will qualify for a higher paying job. Heck there are millions of enterprising illegal aliens in this country with their own businesses- they work as maids, landscapers, food truck owners--- they work hard because they started at the bottom with nothing but the will to succeed. Some of them only have a few sentences of English that they know and yet they make more money than some American who flips burgers for a living and whines about it.

Sal


from filled cup:
alot of ppl are facing stress of the real world. and in the end it boils right back down to money. the wife is nagging. the kids need new bookbags and books, the car needs servicing, the price of groceries keeps going up and salary stays the same. this stress will translate into the work environment. so someone who is stressed from the need for money is damned because they need money.. lol. while the person who is from a more financially secure family and background will be less stressed and better able to focus on their job is rewarded for their good attitude. theyre just lucky!

very well, but let's not forget that cronyism is NOT morally justifiable in any regard. just because something is legal does not make it automatically morally correct.

i commend you for your struggle.. and many have done that struggle to success. but not all will have the same opportunity as you. some will not get that student loan. and some still will not get a job for 10 years whilst holding a degree in their hand. a deadend job is a deadend job. u work for passage to go to work. no saving can be accomplished. ur barely eating as it is.

just dont expect because u were able to do it that everyone else can. when you look at ur paycheck and realize it will take 300 years to pay off a mortgage.. everything becomes pointless.

but remember, the cronies have been paid in full. they will receive great wealth and power on this earth. and at that is where their payment stops! wealthy on earth, but spiritually bankrupt.

beyond this plane, the last shall be first, and the first shall be last. this is why i say good morning even to the vagrant on the street and acknowledge him/her respectfully. not to disregard them as a lower being. you never know who God has chosen when u come across ppl in life. so i am fair to all.

I think a lot of people will always feel resentment towards others who have more of what they perceive as important.

reply to post by AthlonSavage
Poor folks don't know enough about wealth to have any hate that is legitimate. Now the middle class may be another story.

Originally posted by HanzHenry

Originally posted by opethPA
I am of the belief that their needs to be class competition.
Not everyone is capable or willing to do what it takes to be successfully, financially viable or whatever measure of being wealthy people want to apply.

Their are horrible, evil people that kill, rape, steal and general do terrible things and are poor in life just like their are wealthy people that do those same things.

I am not saying this is the point of the OP but I do not understand the desire some on ATS have to vilify someone for being successful or happy professionally. I don't understand why some folks here assume that being homeless is somehow more noble then living in a nice house.

All that being said... I don't think a poor person should hate a wealthy person nor do i think a wealthy person should hate a poor person.. Both groups should despise the criminals that exist in both types , and everything in between, of life.

Competition in an UNFAIR environment is ------- get ready for it ------> unfair.. yeah PROMOTE THAT.. good MORALITY you have there!

Imagine you owner a pack of hunting dogs that did most of the work. Now, you can feed them all well and provide a good life.. OR, you can SAVE MONEY -------->i.e. INCREASE PROFIT!!! by having the dogs "COMPETE" for scraps.. sure, there WONT be ENOUGH to go around.. but hey, the dog that "works hardest" will get food....

and those other ones... they just didn't work/study hard enough! maybe tomorrow when they are MORE FAMISHED, they will EARN IT!!

great mentality! Me and Mine... that's all that matters...


Love the new attitude so many have, so much easier and less strenuous than doing something for someone WITHOUT seeking reward..

edit on 25-8-2013 by HanzHenry because: words

When did I say something close to anything you replied with?
I said class competition is good.. Any competition is good as it keeps people motivated.

The important thing you and many others seem to forget is you have never met a wealthy person.
What you have met is the next layer down the shady ones who worship the crumbs the wealthy drop by the wayside. The ones who enslave others with debt and low wages while catering and often times trampling the "poor" in favor of the wealthy.

You need look no further than your local hospital to see my point they will let a man die in slow agonising pain if he is poor yet will pump a rich man full of anything he wants for the common cold.

I'll rob the rich and give it to the poor.

Originally posted by oasisjack
The important thing you and many others seem to forget is you have never met a wealthy person.
What you have met is the next layer down the shady ones who worship the crumbs the wealthy drop by the wayside. The ones who enslave others with debt and low wages while catering and often times trampling the "poor" in favor of the wealthy.

You need look no further than your local hospital to see my point they will let a man die in slow agonising pain if he is poor yet will pump a rich man full of anything he wants for the common cold.

actually i know quite a few wealthy people. As an IT professional serving VIPs technological needs. not too long ago i served as an Adviser to a Billionaire. i would stand with him in all his meetings and negotiations with potential staff as well as business negotiations.

one time, he made all the workers to work through the long weekend which included a public/bank holiday. they were working very well and i oversaw their work. one girl in particular came because she was afraid to lose her job if she didnt, and spent all day from early morning till late at night assisting with a stock taking project on her boyfriend's birthday. in effect they didnt get to spend that time together.. and im sure others also made sacrifices to be there in fear of losing their jobs.. including the accountant and senior manager, who would complain to me about the Boss's "forcing her to come out to work"

i said to her.. "why are you telling me, why dont you tell him?" she looked at me as tho i was mad to suggest such a thing.

anyway as the story goes on.. everyone worked through the weekend, but management ended up aborting the project which was to continue the next day. in the meeting with my boss and the other managers, the boss had decided he would refuse to pay the workers for their overtime. unfortunately there are no laws here that prevent him from doing so. nor would he suffer any repercussions being a most prominent figure.

at this time in the meeting i decided to do what none else over many years had ever done. voice my disapproval of such an act (respectfully disagreeing of course). he was a man who claimed to be seeking spiritual enlightenment. and believed that all his riches came from God. but much of his riches came from the same sort of business practice he was just about to do. hence.. all his staff were actually stealing from him. including the managers. they would kiss his ass, never voice their concerns, but steal behind his back to compensate.

funny enough, they all jumped on his side against my opinion, agreeing that the workers should not be paid. i insisted as his adviser that the aborting of the project was in no way their fault and that they should be paid for their time.

after a bit of discussion, to everyone's great astonishment. he flipped tail and said "ok, i have decided that everyone should be paid for their time worked". all the managers were in shock. their jaws dropped. i was also the youngest in the room. they had never seen this man change his opinion about anything.

instantly tho, they were able to salvage their jaws to ask "does that mean US TOO?". trying now after fighting against me in his stead to secure payment for themselves and the time they contributed. to which he said. "give it to all who want it".

later he came to me in my office and he said to me "there is no compassion in business you know?"

and that is where i asked "but is there compassion in the human beings running the business?"

he went home and the next day and every day of management meeting afterward he would open with a quote from Mahatma Ghandi. everyone was paid.. and the amount was like nothing for him.. pocket change.. less than even. but to them it meant so much! they do not know what i did to ensure they were paid. and i never told them. i resigned not too long after however.. he did not want to accept my resignation, but when it was clear to him that i had made my decision, i was shocked to see him accept my resignation with tears in his eyes. he even promised me leadership of the entire company for me to stay. but i dont accept promises.. besides, my path was taking me to a new place.

by standing up for what is right and fair, we set a good example for old hardened minds. he came out of an era where his father was an indentured slave. much of the mentality is still inherent in him through the way he was brought up. and it seemed he innocently could not perceive the harm he was doing by being an opportunistic businessman. he worked hard and sacrificed(and cheated) to make his wealth and buy his dream car and dream house. but did not recognize the difference between legal and moral it seems.

reply to post by SallieSunshine

Heck there are millions of enterprising illegal aliens in this country with their own businesses- they work as maids, landscapers, food truck owners--- they work hard because they started at the bottom with nothing but the will to succeed. Some of them only have a few sentences of English that they know and yet they make more money than some American who flips burgers for a living and whines about it.

Yeah, they qualify for and MILLIONS of them DO get every govt bennie on the table.. ALL of them! THAT is how they work for so low wage!

proper mentality.. LIVE LIKE THE ILLEGALS! 12 to a 2 bedroom apartment. scavenging for things to swipe every morning at 3 am before heading off to work.

You ever work on a jobsite? let me tell you, as someone who was an electrician in san diego '04-06. having your name on your tools wasn't near good enough. half the day you work, the other half you are watching the greenlee in the bed of the truck. GOOD THING 18v tool kits so cheap!

Originally posted by filledcup
i believe i answered the last question in my previous paragraph - giving where it can be afforded, in reasonable limits not to become a pauper or ruin ur business, and regulating salaries based on profit margins.

I agree, but I think many do just that. We also see cases where things go very wrong, as example the US auto industry where they ended up not being able to compete due to wages.

I'm on the lower end to your idea of a fair wage. I think the lowest would be one that a single person would not be able to sustain, but 2 people at that low wage could, and this is not adding children to the mix. Once again this would be my lowest...

I would love a Star Trek utopia where no one gets paid and everything they want is available to them in the form of a replicator, so people just follow their dreams and ambitions, but we are not there yet.

i understand the problem here. let me elaborate. minimum wage should be constantly raised to combat inflation. im not saying jump from $9 an hr or whatever it is now to a full $30-$50 an hr over night. but gradual increases with the objective of creating an economy where the lowest paying jobs still afford those in them a respectable level of dignity when they walk the streets. a man holding a job working 12 hrs a day and doing his best shouldnt be looked down upon because he cant afford say an iphone. or his clothes are tattered. or that he still uses an old jalopy and crt television.he should be able to afford his basic needs with comfort.

The problem with this is under this administration we have seen some really big hikes in cost. Those that were able to stay above water have recently found that they are now below the water line. Raising the minimum wage is not that fast, so yes people are hurting when basically over night your cost of living is 20% more than what you make now.

I can tell you how far my pay check goes since 2008 has gone down, not up as it typically should. This is a big deal and not one to blame on the rich or corporations.

Just as an example inflation doubles every 20 years or so, and looking at minimum wage we have...

1938 .25
1956 1.00
1976 2.30
1996 4.75
2009 7.25

So I can't say that minimum wage has gone off the deep end, but in the last few year people are paying about 30% more in living expense or even higher. I would suggest that it should be 10 per hour right now, and in my state it is 9.19.

Even saying this I don't know too many jobs that are actually minimum wage, do you?

Ive thought about it, and I must in turn ask how morally the rich justify the rape of the economy.
The wars, and the unanswered emergencies like famines, etc...
Crap for minimum wages, and part time employees to dodge government rules.....
I don't personally hate any rich person, till I find out how they screwed their way to wealth....