Is the POORs hatred of WEALTHY ($$$) people legitimate and morally justifiable?

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Is the POORs hatred of WEALTHY ($$$) people legitimate and morally justifiable?

Without having walked in their shoes .... my initial response is 'no'.
Hatred of others simply because they have more money is wrong.

I admit that when I see uber-rich people waste money on stupid things instead of using the money for good, it can be irksome Like when Charlie Sheen wastes millions on hookers and drugs instead of using that money to help find a cure for autoimmune diseases or cancer. But I don't hate him. And it's his money to use as he wishes. I do wish he'd use it better, but I don't hate him for what he's doing. The dude has enough problems without adding my hate to them ....

reply to post by FlyersFan


Cant blame wealthy people from having a good time, half their luck. The side effects after many years of partying will eventually take their toll and then all the money in the world isn't much use then.

It is my personal opinion that, in fact, poor people should hate the rich. They should hate their guts, in fact.

Let me tell you why I think that.

Because almost all rich people (especially the truly rich) become rich by either issuing money out of thin air (owning a bank) or doing business with money they were loaned out of thin air, at dirt cheap interest rates.

Other rich people inherited wealth accumulated in this fashioned by their forefathers.

Claiming that anyone can actually earn tens or hundreds of millions of dollars or more by the sweat of their own brow, so to speak, is false on its face and utterly ridiculous

Unless that person single handedly invented antigravity or desktop cold fusion.

Or cured aids and cancer in one fell swoop.

Yes, most rich people are rich because counterfeiting and fraud are legal as long as you do it through a corporation charted or licenced to commit fraud and counterfeiting legally.

They're called banks.

Of course, most people are completely opaque to this simple fact of life.

They don't understand that banks are a form of institutionalised and legalised fraud.

That they loan the same money out several times at once all the while lying to the rest of society about how much money they really have and have actually received.

Inflation is a monetary phenomenon by excellence. And it is the cost of loaning that banks arbitrarily and untransparently externalise to society at large.

Also, have you noticed that all actual work seems to be done solely by the working poor and middle class? Do you say Donald Trump, for example, actually building or manufacturing, hauling or innovating anything, personally?

I myself confess to hating both rich people and people who say I shouldn't (people leaning towards the right, politically).

I think bankers and traders and speculators (bankers' accomplices in issuing counterfeit money thereby transferring wealth upwards) ought to be guillotined in the streets.

But that's just my personal opinion. I no way, shape or form should anyone decide to act on this stated opinion of mine.

I hope admitting to this and speaking the truth is not a punishable offence on ATS.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
The divide leads to jealousy, resentment and sometimes extreme hatred of between the upper and lower classes.

That assumption is completely deluded. A lot of people dream of luxury and limitless abundancy, but they don't hate others for having access to such things.
Ever tried to say "# it", and go out into the wilds, build a small home and live off the land? That's right, every single piece of land is owned by someone. You are either subject to the will of those who own land and resources or you own them yourself.
In addition to that, everyone keeps taking from them, pressure on the poor is steadily increased, while it's being decreased on the wealthy, because, you know, they are the ones who actually make the rules, no conspiracies here.

Saying that the poor dislike the wealthy, because they're jealous is exactly like saying that the evil terrorists hate Americans because of their freedoms. People get angry if you constantly throw rocks at them. I hope there is no need to explain this statement.

"Legitimate and morally justifiable?"
That's a hilariously stupid question. If you smack the # out of a hornet nest, you should be prepared to get some negative reaction. It's to be expected.

[edit]
Censoring cuss words ... and there I thought that this was a board for adults, silly me.

reply to post by pexx421

Excellent points all.

Originally posted by Aphorism
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

On the poor's hatred of the wealthy—It can be said with confidence that wealth does not make a person. Conversely, one does not, nor can not, hate a wealthy person on these grounds. One can only hate that he himself is not wealthy.

edit on 24-8-2013 by Aphorism because: (no reason given)

wrong....when a person's net worth is more than 50 million dollars, and they actively work toward lowering their own tax obligation, because they are getting screwed by the underclass, that's when the phrase "hate for the wealthy" comes into play for me...maybe for them, a tall tree with a short rope hanging from it, would tend to dampen their animosity

reply to post by Marsupilami


You have to tread very carefully around here.

Everything that is not (extreme) right wing talking points is liable to get you banned. Not suspended, not warned, not penalised.

reply to post by SystemResistor

A) Are the poor in question law abiding citizens?
B) Do the wealthy deserve what they have?
C) Would a poor man, with money, squander what he has?

A) Most are, it's those that are not that paint a picture that the majority are like them.

B) Why would it be that those that have worked and done wisely with their monies not deserve the fruits of their labors? Even the poor work for what they have, do they deserve more for theirs than the wealthy person does for his even though both worked for what they have? Of course they both deserve what they have that they have worked for. There is a difference between working hard and working smart. Just because one works smarter than the other does not mean they deserve less for working smarter.

C) The poor generally will squander large sums of money because they do not know how to manage it. They do not know how to use the tool they would be given. This is why people that win millions in the Lotto are broke in 5 years or less. No one bothers to teach them how to manage it.

How many here have been on both sides of the fence? I venture few if any, yet without knowing the wealthy side or the truly poor side are quick to jump mostly on the wealthy and cry about them having something they do not.

It does not require wealth to be greedy nor does one have to be poor to be honest and giving. One of the posters pointed out that a poor person that finds a large amount of money goes and turns it in so that it is returned to its owner but said you never hear of the wealthy doing that. The main reason is the wealthy have resources to deal with that situation that the poor don't and would rather not get the publicity.

Do the wealthy look down upon the poor...no, not anymore than anyone else as it is mostly, out of sight, out of mind. Do the poor hate the wealthy...no but some do and it's fueled by jealousy, lack of education, beliefs or a combination of factors.

After you have walked a mile in the poor mans shoes and a mile in the wealthy mans you will better understand what it truly means to be wealthy or poor and money is not involved.

There is a difference between hatred and envy.

And whether the envy of non-rich people toward the wealthy can be considered legitimate and morally justified depends on the circumstances by which the latter acquired their wealth.

I dare say that most non-rich individuals have at least a subtle envy of those who are wealthy because while money is not the most important aspect of life, it certainly makes it easier in many regards.

I envy those who do not have to go on a payment plan just to pay their utility bills. I envy those that do not have to lie awake at night worrying about the increase in their insurance premiums. I envy those that do not have to worry about having enough money in the account to purchase groceries and decide what they will go without to avoid embarrassment at the checkout once again. I envy those that don't need to panic if a financial emergency arises.

I know you aren't "supposed" to worry about the above, but it's called being human in a society that values and rewards wealth.

Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

I'm "poor", but, I don't hate the wealthy.

Actually, I don't hate anyone.

defeat or Stockholm?

the wealthy actually use every penny to insulate and grow their wealth ------------> at the EXPENSE of the poor.

the WEALTHY MAKE THEIR MONEY OFF THE POOR. they invest! in what? things the poor has to buy.. and every purchase people make -------------profits the rich!

and turn a blind eye to suffering that they could aid .... to be greedy!

the four kids, who inherited the fortune of their father Sam Walton who started and ran Walmart, are worth more that 100 billion dollars...did they "do" 100 billion dollars of "hard" work"?...and let's compare them to the actual workers on Walmarts floor, who would like to make a living wage, but instead are subject to working for under 10 bucks a hour, part-time, with no benefits....and now we have the wealthy, and those that praise them, saying that the poor are jealous and/or lazy.

Originally posted by HanzHenry

Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

I'm "poor", but, I don't hate the wealthy.

Actually, I don't hate anyone.

defeat or Stockholm?

the wealthy actually use every penny to insulate and grow their wealth ------------> at the EXPENSE of the poor.

the WEALTHY MAKE THEIR MONEY OFF THE POOR. they invest! in what? things the poor has to buy.. and every purchase people make -------------profits the rich!

and turn a blind eye to suffering that they could aid .... to be greedy!

and on the other end..
The Poor play the system to get a free ride on welfare, food stamps, govt funded systems.
The Poor and many, not all but many, homeless expect the wealthy to bail them out and provide them money so they can go get more alcohol , cigarettes and drugs..
Yup, those above 2 sentences are as unfair and ridiculous as what you said.

Blanket statements don't work when dealing with large numbers of people.. As I said earlier, their are horrible poor people and their are horrible rich people. One is not any better than the other , just different.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage


Is the POORs hatred of WEALTHY ($$$) people legitimate and morally justifiable?

No you cant hate on someone else because they got more then you...
The anguish related to the people trying to keep up financially in this material world generated by some of the rich is understood. But you shouldn't hate on another because why you waste time doing so you could be trying to figure out your financial situation.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

Is the POORs hatred of WEALTHY ($$$) people legitimate and morally justifiable?

Good question.

Rather than be a people hater, I hate the concept that sociopathic people use the same paper for sundries that the rest of us use to buy groceries.

The concept that sociopaths can just pull it out of their butts while other normal people cannot is unconscionable.

Money motivates people to work towards a common goal. If you take money out of the equation, you're left with the desire to be cooperative with others who share common goals?

The problem is giving sociopaths any clout whatsoever.

Maybe it is because they have created this reputation themselves. All the rich people I ever knew looked down their uppity noses at me wondering why I was not rich. Even while I was sweating profusely taking care of their sick and elderly. I always wondered how much they would pay me to lift them out of their own feces.

This is an ages old story. As we don't seem to learn from history, we are forever repeating it.

I don't hate anyone either. But I DO hate people with money that find ways to not pay their fair share. Leave politics totally out of it.

I've always laughed at people that brag about how much money they donated to a cause and later we learn that because they donated, they saved many, many times more what is owed to the IRS.

On the surface, it sounds like they're philanthropic, but in reality, their selfish bastages!!

Originally posted by pexx421
Another point I want to bring. Sorry guys, but our poverty class is a function of the society we built. It is a direct result of our policies. Many want to blame the poor for their lot...but I guarantee, if those same people you might point to and despise for their laziness, their entitlement, their ignorance...if they were born in japan, Norway, Vietnam, they would be nothing like they are now.

I agree but it is not so much policies as it is social and family norms. I do agree that policies are affected by these norms but over all it comes down to what society allows and how healthy the family life is.

But that aside....the majority of people are not like that. This is a fringe that is pointed to in order to arouse your ire. The natural state of a human at rest is not laziness....its creativity.

I disagree, I think if the Government provides just enough to live on then many will adapt to that level of existence. Take the poor on subsistence living, why would a person come off of free living to go on the long hard road of a better life?

Its just that in the US the norm is so far from healthy that when they have rest they spend the time in decamping, recovering. We have a system here that has completely subverted maslow's hierarchy of need. What I mean by that is this....according to Maslow, we have to fulfill our needs in a certain order. Once we have achieved food, we then need to achieve personal safety. Once we have achieved safety we then need to attain social significance or love. Once we attain these we move on to esteem and self actualization.

I agree people never fill it, BTW what is self actualization today? I don't even know what that is for me much less anyone else, but for a large number of people if you fulfill food and shelter they just sit in that state while others fill their safety and social significance in negative ways such as gang affiliation. When people live week to week there is no need to move past these points in needs.

But in our system we have made attaining food and safety (home) a neverending cost, that people must devote at LEAST 40 hours a week to....their whole lives. And we fill the rest of the time with addictions to distraction, TV, Football, alcohol, drugs. So people never get to the point of actualizing, which is where they would normally discover their full potential and become valuable resources for their society.

I disagree. Today in America we have never been at this point where we needed so little time to fulfill the first levels of the hierarchy. We don't need to get, grow or really make our foods, which took most of the day in the past, and now a couple of hours to do all of it, or even 10 minutes if we go fast food. We can travel in an hour of what was a 1/2 day commitment in the resent past too. Since we have substituted money to buy many levels of the hierarchy to suggest that one only needs 40 hours a week to achieve those levels is the best so far in the history of Mankind.

We have, INTENTIONALLY, I believe, subverted whole generations potential in order to make them into good consumers. And let me add....even the poor are productive consumers. Every single cent of welfare, aid, etc that goes to the poor....goes RIGHT back into the system as profit....to walmart, to hospitals, to cell phone companies and automakers. Ok, I'll get off my soap box now, tequila has me rambling, but these are the thoughts I have on it. Thanks for listening!

That is the problem, consumers....everyone needs a smart phone, computer, internet etc etc. When I was in my 20s during the 80s I lived in an apartment with crappy furniture no cable or internet needed. My expenses were very little to meet the first few levels of the hierarchy. I could literally pay all my expenses and have only 5 bucks left with 3 or 4 days to go until my next pay check and do ok.

Today I priced it out that a person to meet the fake basic needs of a consumer runs about 3000 per month or about 20 plus dollars per hour job. This is just to barely meet those needs, when it is funny that 800 million Chinese can meet their needs now about 100 dollars per month.

Not really much more that I can ad then what other members have already said, if you become wealthy at the expense of others and cause harm, I may not hate you, but I resent you, lack respect for you, and if your doing something illegal and or morally WRONG I want you to be accountable, and if your a public employee, such as a judge or politician I want you to be given mandatory lie detector tests, and hold open, public hearings if you are accused of wrong doing on behalf of special interests for personal gain.

A little off topic, but I always found it really shady what went down with Martha Stewart, she was publicly humiliated for some bogus stock deal, she claims was not done with ill intent, and I tend to believe her. Comedians, the media just blasted her as some sort of obnoxious, rich, power hungry, elitist, control freak that deserved to go to jail.

The fact is, she came from humble beginnings, has created thousands of American jobs, promotes healthy eating and organic gardening, encourages people to use their hands and natural ingredients to make gifts rather then buy a bunch of junkie crap made by slave labor in other Countries, she promotes local and small business's, while still making quality products to sell to larger chains. She is all about promoting a great philosophy of living well for everyone!

The last 10 min. of this interview really sum up how she became wealthy, basically by doing something she believed in, surrounding herself with talented people, you'll notice if you watch the interview she always says "our" company, not hers. I think she's great, very classy lady and "It's a good thing".......anyways just bizarre with all the crooks that deserve public shame for their dirty dealings and endless greed at the expense of others, The person they took down was Martha, lol, the rich hate people who have morals and demonstrate a fair and wholesome business model.

dp

Well... The Poor's King should answer that question as he speaks for all of the Poor. Unfortunately there is some concern over who is the Poors' current King due to legitimacy questions (DNA test results are being waited on). Once the Poor are sure that they have elected the right King they will get back to you. I guess an emissary should be sent to the king of the Wealthy, who makes all decisions and judgements on behalf of the Wealthy. Who is the Wealthy's King who speaks unanimously and unequivocally with one voice?