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Stanton Friedman Debunks Bob Lazar

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posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 01:53 AM
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stormbringer1701
reply to post by crazyewok
 


which scientist would know this at the time and how would they know it?

and I think you do not understand the significance of the "new" theory. If is more than a mathematical link and gluons and gravitons are the same basic force then it means so many revolutionary things that it would take several books to go through the implications and importance and life on earth would be changed forever.


I barely understand this link but it does not appear to be an actual physical link, e.g. "the force of gravity is related to strong force of nuclei". It appears at first to be more "structure of quantum gravitation may be mathematically solvable using some (extremely advanced) tools which are being developed for QCD computations".




posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 04:56 PM
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mbkennel


I barely understand this link but it does not appear to be an actual physical link, e.g. "the force of gravity is related to strong force of nuclei". It appears at first to be more "structure of quantum gravitation may be mathematically solvable using some (extremely advanced) tools which are being developed for QCD computations".


i understand your confusion because when i went back to look at the scientific american article i could not find the link i mentioned in the main body. instead it's in the side bar on the right hand side of the page. but in the Dixon interview he reiterates the connection i mentioned so it's not just a discussion of the mathematical tools and method and it's not just editorial speculation on the SCI-AM writer's part either.



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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its in the second paragraph from the bottom in this article:

www.preposterousuniverse.com...




Along the way, Zvi, John Joseph and Henrik, thanks to the time-honored method of “just staring at” the loop integrand provided by unitarity, also stumbled on a new property of gauge theory amplitudes, which tightly couples them to gravity. They found that gauge theory amplitudes can be written in such a way that their kinematic part obeys relations that are structurally identical to the Jacobi identities known to fans of Lie algebras. This so-called color-kinematics duality, when achieved, leads to a simple “double copy” prescription for computing amplitudes in suitable theories of gravity: Take the gauge theory amplitude, remove the color factors and square the kinematic numerator factors. Crudely, a graviton looks very much like two gluons laid on top of each other. If you’ve ever looked at the Feynman rules for gravity, you’d be shocked that such a simple prescription could ever work, but it does. Although these relations could in principle have been discovered without unitarity-based methods, the power of the methods to provide very simple expressions, led people to find initial patterns, and then easily test the patterns in many other examples to gain confidence.


shortly; i will find a link to the full SCIAM article and provide a cite link and a quote of the relevant part.

EDIT: actually i can't they changed the article so you have to be a subscriber to view the whole thing. but essentially the sidebar quote was similar to the above cite from the dixon interview. minus the math bits. it went something like: " a quantum graviton appears to be a doubled gluon"
edit on 23-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2014 @ 05:40 PM
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This just in from another ATS thread

phys.org...

so Bob Lazar said the aliens got their element 115 (stable form) from certain rare types of binary star system.

this is a type of binary star whose detection signature is over abundance of heavy nuclei beyond iron. rubidium and so forth.
such a set up.... all that available mass and transmutations beyond iron.... even rare transmutation paths (those leading to the right neutron numbers for stability) should be relatively abundant in such an environment.

this may be Lazar's binary.
edit on 25-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: grammar was pretty bad.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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and on the element 115 subject:

www.intalek.com...

the point of interest is the interview with one of the element 115 discovery team; Joshua Patin, Ph.D., Nuclear Chemist, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, California. about halfway down the page. unless this is a hoax it appears the Dr thinks stable element 115 is still possible. He also says even if they had produced stable element 115 they would not have seen it because they are set up to detect decay products. a few stable atoms would not even register.

hey this is getting better and better! Woot!



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by stormbringer1701
 


Even if element 115 was stable, Lazar only claimed it was a power source. So you have to believe element 115 exists, is stable, creates power as Lazar indicated, THEN you have to buy into his anti-gravity nonsense.

You have to watch that video Lazar was selling regarding how the saucers works. It starts out with Lazar driving a Corvette in the desert (yeah, great car for offroad use), then it goes downhill from there.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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gariac
You have to watch that video Lazar was selling regarding how the saucers works. It starts out with Lazar driving a Corvette in the desert (yeah, great car for offroad use), then it goes downhill from there.




"By the way...
This is Tri-Dot Productions
interpretation of the fullest
extent of the law..."


I get Lazar and Huff were #1 and #2 of the Tri-Dot's - who was #3? John Lear?
Seems to me I read the Corvette got repo'd.
edit on 27-1-2014 by FosterVS because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by FosterVS
 

The Corvette was modified to drive off of Hydrogen gas. It was shown in one of the videos that used to be on the United Nuclear site.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by Guyfriday
 


I loved how interested the reporter got when Bob the super scientist did the hydrogen pop test lol I think I mastered that one was I was about 12..



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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gariac
reply to post by stormbringer1701
 


Even if element 115 was stable, Lazar only claimed it was a power source. So you have to believe element 115 exists, is stable, creates power as Lazar indicated, THEN you have to buy into his anti-gravity nonsense.

You have to watch that video Lazar was selling regarding how the saucers works. It starts out with Lazar driving a Corvette in the desert (yeah, great car for offroad use), then it goes downhill from there.



it exists. confirmed in Russia and California. Element 115 has officially been added to the periodic table. whether there is a stable form is not determined but is supported by the "Island of Stability" theory and by the fact that the experimenters said they would not have seen it even if it (stable 115) was produced because thier detection methods rely on observing decay events and products.

WRT the power source, what Bob claimed was that by adding a proton to element 115 you created element 116 which immediately decays. the decay produces a small quantity of anti-particles which are used to power the ship through thermo-electric converters. the other claim is the remaining 115 has a protruding strong interaction field that can be tapped and manipulated into a manifestation of gravitons. this claim is now supported by prize winning theoretical physicists.

the only bits that cannot be tested is if you can transmute stable 115 into 116 by the addition of protons. this cannot be tested exactly because we have no stable 115.

however; we do have something that can be substituted for stable 115. Bismuth. it's in the same PT family. it has the same nucleonic structure. and it is claimed that like 115 it too has a protruding strong interaction field. that should be testable even if only by virtue that if the theory is correct you should be able to do to it what you could do to element 115 in terms of tinkering with gravity with it.
edit on 27-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: typos



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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gariac
reply to post by stormbringer1701
 


Even if element 115 was stable, Lazar only claimed it was a power source.



this is false. the primary claim about element 115 is that it can be used to manipulate gravity via mucking about with its strong force exchange field. it's use as a power source is only ancilliary to that. also the corvette thing had a purpose. you don't appear to know the details well enough to offer a valid critique.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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Guyfriday
reply to post by FosterVS
 

The Corvette was modified to drive off of Hydrogen gas. It was shown in one of the videos that used to be on the United Nuclear site.


The Corvette "supposedly" modified to run on hydrogen is/was red.
8:18 "This is a prototype, so..."
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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stormbringer1701

gariac
reply to post by stormbringer1701
 


Even if element 115 was stable, Lazar only claimed it was a power source.



this is false. the primary claim about element 115 is that it can be used to manipulate gravity via mucking about with its strong force exchange field. it's use as a power source is only ancilliary to that. also the corvette thing had a purpose. you don't appear to know the details well enough to offer a valid critique.


You haven't seen the video or you don't understand it.

Oh, I know plenty about Lazar. Fake degrees, pimping conviction, etc.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 07:50 PM
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FosterVS

Guyfriday
reply to post by FosterVS
 

The Corvette was modified to drive off of Hydrogen gas. It was shown in one of the videos that used to be on the United Nuclear site.


The Corvette "supposedly" modified to run on hydrogen is/was red.
8:18 "This is a prototype, so..."
www.youtube.com...


The trouble is no engine can really be converted to run on hydrogen due to how it causes metal to become brittle. Maybe Lazar was asleep that day in his MIT material science class. You need to build an engine to burn hydrogen.

hydrogen

Well unless you have some element 115 laying around. ;-)



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 08:33 PM
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gariac
The trouble is no engine can really be converted to run on hydrogen due to how it causes metal to become brittle. Maybe Lazar was asleep that day in his MIT material science class. You need to build an engine to burn hydrogen.

hydrogen

Well unless you have some element 115 laying around. ;-)
Explain?

From your link:

Hydrogen embrittlement is the process by which various metals, most importantly high-strength steel, become brittle and fracture following exposure to hydrogen. Hydrogen embrittlement is often the result of unintentional introduction of hydrogen into susceptible metals during forming or finishing operations and increases cracking in the material. This phenomenon was first described in 1875.[1]
The bolded point was done by me. The issue doesn't happen just because hydrogen is in conduct, but rather happens due to hydrogen is infused with the metal during treatment (like chroming).

Maybe you can explain this issue better.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 08:34 PM
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FosterVS

Guyfriday
reply to post by FosterVS
 

The Corvette was modified to drive off of Hydrogen gas. It was shown in one of the videos that used to be on the United Nuclear site.


The Corvette "supposedly" modified to run on hydrogen is/was red.
8:18 "This is a prototype, so..."
www.youtube.com...
My mistake, I haven't seen the video in a while.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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my thoughts on Bob Lazar's claims of element 115 as evidence for the veracity of his story have evolved in a way i will attempt to clearly explain.

his claim that element 115 exists was not strong evidence to me because the way physicists were succeeding in creating missing elements from the periodic table made it pretty plain that eventually they would succeed in synthesizing it in a lab.

furthermore it was easy for physicists or nuclear chemists or educated laymen to know in advance the lay out of the nucleonic shells in the nucleus of the new element. the real significance to his claims in that regard did not come until years later when theoretical physicists supplied a plausible strong force gravity unification frame work.

when it was synthesized in the lab it turned out they made two unstable isotopes that decayed rapidly. the only thing initially that I took to potentially support his claim of a stable isotope was that the heavier of the two lab created isotopes lasted significantly longer than the lighter isotope they created. it took years for additional supporting evidence to strengthen the credibility afforded to him by this feat.

now as an educated layman myself I knew of the island of stability theory that many nuclear scientists believe. And it is not surprising that Bob Lazar would know of that too without recourse to secret government-alien knowledge. so for a long time Bob lazar's claims in that regard were not all that convincing as proof of his claims. but...

When I saw an interview with the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory PHD team that synthesized element 115 to verify the Russian claims he said that it may be possible that additional neutrons might result in a stable form of element 115 I took notice. the real scientific community had not ceded the possibility of stable 115. he furthermore said that even if his team had created a few atoms of stable element 115 his team would not have detected them because of the way their experiment worked. so it is possible that stable 115 has been made already.

only a few days before i found that interview i read of the final bit of information i needed to evaluate Bob Lazar's scientific claims. the work of Zvi Bern, Dixon and their colleagues provides a scientific Theoretical basis to link the Strong force and quantum gravity. their research resulted in them jointly being awarded the Sakurai prize for theoretical physics.

EDIT: Additional Suggestive evidence for Lazar's claims about element 115 has recently been published in articles about a special type of binary star. it turns out this star's signature is an over abundance of heavy elements. this article led to a trail of older articles which prove that 50 percent of heavy elements are synthesized in sun-like and larger stars during their normal life times prior to any nova or supernova event in their life cycle. Bob Lazar had claimed that the aliens said their source of element 115 was certain types of large star or binaries. remember us old timers were taught that anything heavier than iron had to come from novaes or supernovaes. this revelation about S process origins of heavy nuclei supports Lazar's claims.

In my mind this is quite strong evidence that Bob Lazar was relaying at least the science involved in the story correctly. He got information that was beyond the state of the art of the time and that information is largely verified now.

to prove it conclusively all that remains to be done is investigate whether the one remaining unverified gravity related claim needed for him to have been exposed to alien propulsion technology is to see if the theoretical link between the strong force and gravity can be accessed in the real world. it does not matter if the transmutation of 115 to 116 produces antimatter or if the nearly perfect thermo-electric converters are possible or so forth. if the gravity part does not work the rest of it is irrelevant. it is one thing for the math to work. it is another to bend metal and get it to work in the practical realm.

so in my mind i could fully endorse what Bob Lazar said (concerning gravity propulsion) as true if experiments using bismuth (as a substitute for element 115) produce a gravity anomaly of some sort. it does not even have to involve actual non-diamagnetic related levitation. just an anomaly that is not explainable in terms of magnetism or diamagnetism with a high confidence sigma figure. I'll settle for a TWR of .05. i don't need a TWR >1.00 to be convinced. if the measurement precision is precise enough i will take a TWR of .0001.

for now i can say that the evidence verified so far is certainly not as easily dismissed as skeptics seem to think.



edit on 27-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: grammatical errors fixed

edit on 27-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: adding a joke or two.

edit on 27-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: altering vocab selected.

edit on 27-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: adding an addendum

edit on 27-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: typos! typos everywhere!



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 09:54 PM
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i don't generally go after the credentialing and other ancilliary issues because to me they are unimportant if the science is right. i do seem to remember seeing a lot of those sorts of criticisms rebutted over the years though. even so the science is what is important. and that now appears more and more in Lazar's favor.



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 10:46 PM
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stormbringer1701
i don't generally go after the credentialing and other ancilliary issues because to me they are unimportant if the science is right. i do seem to remember seeing a lot of those sorts of criticisms rebutted over the years though. even so the science is what is important. and that now appears more and more in Lazar's favor.


Credentials are a "ancilliary" (ancillary?) issue?
Please. In Lazars case they would have to be. He HAS NONE.
No wait... some kind of electronics course at a community college.
A number of CREDENTIALLED physicists have already dismissed Lazar's science as gobbledygook.
Here is an article from mid-2013 where Lazar is STILL trying to present himself as a physicist.
Please tell me how you become a physicist without any credentials? By selling fireworks components and novelty items over the internet?
www.freep.com...
edit on 27-1-2014 by FosterVS because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2014 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by stormbringer1701
 


Element 115 was theorised to exist before Bob came about, he probably said it used that because he knew it would be a long time before you could even test what he said.

Bob's story has a lot of holes in it. How can you explain the lack of a base at S-4?




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