Proof we were Created - Yes, I said Proof!

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

This statement goes against scripture. Read Romans 13, it deals with all governing authorities being servants and agents of god. Does this scripture still apply today? If not, why?

Matthew 11
30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

The theory you put forward is neither easy nor light, it is convoluted and bogged down with unnecessary loops and knots. The truth is simple, not complicated.

The root morphology of the word yoke is connected to three and tree. Scripture is the same in all ages.

"In Hebrew, ‘Three’ is word 2847. It means ‘Threefold’ and ‘Captain,’ as in, “One in charge of three.” Tree (1012) means ‘Strength.’ This is the picture of the shepherd’s crook and the ox head, which implies the word yoke from the same root. The yoke guides the ox. Combined, they indicate strong authority. “The yoke is understood as a Staff on the shoulders.” We can also see this in the depictions of Christ carrying the lamb (Adam). The Lexicon points out that, “often, two ox were yoked together. An older, more experienced ox would be teamed up with a younger, less experienced ox. The older ox in the yoke is the “strong authority” who, through the yoke, teaches the younger ox.”

The mother’s womb is the shadow of the water where we can see the idea of an older yoked to the younger for the same purpose, but it takes three. The water of our body is the shadow of the womb of the Earth, but it takes three (Sun, Moon, Earth). The worm becomes the butterfly in the end, but not apart from three. Before metamorphosis takes place, the worm consumes its environment. What metamorphosis is taking place between the Earth we bind here and the Heaven above? " From the book series, "Involution and Evolution, Volume I."

Of course, being yoked to the mother is not a burden at all. There are trials in life for sure, but following the law of love is not a hard burden. The real burden is fighting the one you are yoked to. This is a trial of fire. God is invariable.

ur problem jiggerj is that u think that God should grant u entry into his kingdom just for being jiggerj. when was the last time someone stopped by and gave u 1 tone of gold.. for free? a giant diamond? a storeroom full of flawless diamonds each the size of a football field? this still does not equate to the value of God's priceless gift.

You've got to WORK FOR IT!

reply to post by filledcup



Oh no, no. lol From what I've been reading from other members, Jesus took all the hard work away. We are forgiven everything. EVERYBODY goes to heaven now. Sure, there are those that won't feel guilty about their sins, but that's the way they are made and can't feel what they CAN'T feel. They can't change and grow because it's simply not in them to do so. The rest of us automatically feel guilty and sorry when we wrong someone - it's natural for us. So, no more hard work. We're headin' for that great Disney World in the sky!

Originally posted by jiggerj

ur problem jiggerj is that u think that God should grant u entry into his kingdom just for being jiggerj. when was the last time someone stopped by and gave u 1 tone of gold.. for free? a giant diamond? a storeroom full of flawless diamonds each the size of a football field? this still does not equate to the value of God's priceless gift.

You've got to WORK FOR IT!

reply to post by filledcup

 

Oh no, no. lol From what I've been reading from other members, Jesus took all the hard work away. We are forgiven everything. EVERYBODY goes to heaven now. Sure, there are those that won't feel guilty about their sins, but that's the way they are made and can't feel what they CAN'T feel. They can't change and grow because it's simply not in them to do so. The rest of us automatically feel guilty and sorry when we wrong someone - it's natural for us. So, no more hard work. We're headin' for that great Disney World in the sky!

In the Bible, heaven is always the word for heavens. It represents the sky and eternity beyond the horizon. The Bible does not outline a heaven that is separated from the current kingdom we occupy. On the contrary, the entire creation is in dimensional levels. Clearly, the Bible states that you must be born again. This is not the last life. Your current work determines you next robe (body) and crown (mind). The promise is that the curse will be lifted and we will live with no more entropy (Decay and death). Life will last and death will be overcome.

Midrash

Future bliss can neither be imagined, explained, nor described. We know nothing of its nature, form, greatness, or beauty, its quantity or quality. This much one should know, the phrase, "the world to come," does not imply that it is a world yet to be called into existence; it exists already, but the phrase is employed to describe the life into which those who are in the present stage of existence will be transposed when they throw off this mortal coil.

Death is a transition. Rise or sink. It's a choice based on faith. Faith determines thoughts, words and deeds. Faith is the ability to make the indeterminate determined. God places a great deal of emphasis on the need for faith in Him. This implies that we recognize His trustworthiness. It also implies our own trustworthiness.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

This statement goes against scripture. Read Romans 13, it deals with all governing authorities being servants and agents of god. Does this scripture still apply today? If not, why?

Matthew 11
30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

The theory you put forward is neither easy nor light, it is convoluted and bogged down with unnecessary loops and knots. The truth is simple, not complicated.

The root morphology of the word yoke is connected to three and tree. Scripture is the same in all ages.

"In Hebrew, ‘Three’ is word 2847. It means ‘Threefold’ and ‘Captain,’ as in, “One in charge of three.” Tree (1012) means ‘Strength.’ This is the picture of the shepherd’s crook and the ox head, which implies the word yoke from the same root. The yoke guides the ox. Combined, they indicate strong authority. “The yoke is understood as a Staff on the shoulders.” We can also see this in the depictions of Christ carrying the lamb (Adam). The Lexicon points out that, “often, two ox were yoked together. An older, more experienced ox would be teamed up with a younger, less experienced ox. The older ox in the yoke is the “strong authority” who, through the yoke, teaches the younger ox.”

The mother’s womb is the shadow of the water where we can see the idea of an older yoked to the younger for the same purpose, but it takes three. The water of our body is the shadow of the womb of the Earth, but it takes three (Sun, Moon, Earth). The worm becomes the butterfly in the end, but not apart from three. Before metamorphosis takes place, the worm consumes its environment. What metamorphosis is taking place between the Earth we bind here and the Heaven above? " From the book series, "Involution and Evolution, Volume I."

Of course, being yoked to the mother is not a burden at all. There are trials in life for sure, but following the law of love is not a hard burden. The real burden is fighting the one you are yoked to. This is a trial of fire. God is invariable.

edit on 24-8-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

As I said, convoluted and over-complicated. You're stuck in the revolving door of Babel.

I noticed you didn't even attempt to explain why god would be the leader of today's governments. If scripture applies today as it did back then, that means your god is all about taking our rights and freedoms away, because the governments today are his agents doing his will.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The title of or embedded vid is "Bible Code - Chuck Missler on the Hidden Torah Message" which I was pointing out has a problem. So yes you are promoting it sadly the fact you are then stating you are simply taking someone's word and in the same paragraph saying its evidence is sort of disheartening to me.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Here's maybe the first mistake, to assume that it was a god that did the following: "This is proof that a signature was left. Not just here, but in ALL of scripture. This proof is accurate to the fourth decimal point. Do you realize how difficult it would be to accomplish this with meaning connected to the topic of creation?"

There are several possibilities.

PART 1: (It wouldn't all fit.)

Let us first stipulate and agree that maybe no regular, typical human could easily construct a lengthy text so that it divides nicely into Pi or whatever. Fine. And so let us for the moment agree that we may have evidence that a "signature" was left. Fantastic. BUT—(listed in no particular order)

1) A computer could do such, maybe easily. And since the universe may be incredibly old, it is not far-fetched in the least for machines and androids to travel from other systems*, and affect another planet, including giving people "scriptures". With billions or trillions of planets, it is very possible that others elsewhere made technological advances a long, long time ago.

On our planet, regular people have allowed indigenous peoples to think that they were like gods. (Look up "cargo cult" for more info.) It is therefore not hard to imagine machines (androids) or people with advanced technology wowing people on Earth even hundreds of years ago, if not thousands. And they probably had computers.

* I did a simple calculation based on the distance to the nearest star system (Proxima Centauri) and how long it would take some Earth-originating planetary probe going 50,000KM/Hr. (Source: NASA broadcast) to reach that system, if unhindered. If my calculations were right, it could take about 92,000 years. In just 1 million years, that could equal 5 round trips! In 1 billion years, 5,000 round trips. As the Earth itself is thought to be billions of years old, and species found possibly hundreds of millions of years old (with no clear, gradual fossil-record transition found, between one humanoid-like species and surrounding species), we may be seeing evidence of various machine or alien visitations, DNA manipulations, and even colonizations. This is not far-fetched. This is likely. (And one day we will need to escape the black hole or whatever at the center of the galaxy – as they would have realized! – or be destroyed. And we would then send out thousands or millions of probes, mapping, searching.)

2) A number of texts in the Bible are – how shall we say it – STRANGE or strangely worded. I had a friend in high school who, it turned out, was a Muslim (Moslem). A relative of his, I believe it was, told me that in the Koran we could find some amazing pattern. Only, some word was misspelled to bring that about! In the Bible, might we find any odd constructions? In John 1 alone, we see this weird repeat: "The same was in the beginning with" the theos/aloha/elohim. A near-repeat that seems to add nothing new to the content. I have read that that section could have been a song or poem.

To add something to make it fit a pattern might be impressive, and evidence of "signature", but not proof a god did it.

3) To say that these patterns are consistent everywhere in scripture (meaning Canon Scripture of the Bible) may be mistaken. Some DO occur in special places.

Ivan Panin did some massive studies in "numerics" (not numerology) found in the Bible. It's amazing stuff, sometimes, but it may matter which text one is using.

Rabbis and others recently (within decades) published that there is also a Bible Code. This was thought throughout history, actually, by some famous geniuses. (If those in history found anything substantial, I haven't see it published.) Although, I have yet to read of anyone who has the decoding ability or code to decode it IN ADVANCE. (After the fact is questionable.) Of course, they could be using the wrong original-language text.

4) Where patterns do occur, it is unlikely to just show up that way? Maybe. Probably. But, again, where it may be found, is the wording altogether typical and mundane, or special in any way?

Musicians and mathematicians both play with numbers. Know any savants? Any autistic geniuses? Some of them can (supposedly) sometimes spot patterns that 99% of the rest of us miss. So comparing 99% of us to a text that may have been made by one of these could impress us, but wouldn't be fair to conclude that just because 99% of us couldn't (or wouldn't) do it, doesn't mean that some other genius (or strange person) couldn't and wouldn't.

If such geniuses can spot them, they might be able to create them. Such people are looked for and gathered by secret groups with 3-letter abbreviations for their names.

Continues to PART 2. (Important: Read at least #6.)

reply to post by timeisonwhoseside


PART 2: (It wouldn't all fit.)

5) Leaving behind symbols, codes, special signatures, or marks is a COMMON thing for artistic types to do. Again, 9 out of 10 of the typical populace wouldn't do it, but an artist might. A special kind of writer might too.

6) Miracles in the Bible don't prove it was GOD.

This is crucial to understand. In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, it talks about "miracles" (that is, works of power) that are done by the power of "satan".

The assumption that miracles are from God and to be attributed to God is therefore a false one, and unBiblical.

No, the Bible says to "test the spirits", so to speak. (The word spirit is actually literally breath, wind, or related to air, gas, and intended as a metaphor or symbolic of something else, but not necessarily a "spirit".)

And while "signs" do say something, we cannot simply assume what they are saying.

What they are evidence of is POWER. And probably INTELLIGENCE. They are NOT necessarily evidence of goodness, kindness, love, or benevolence. Nor are they necessarily done by God. It could be "satan" (adversary, etc.). Or it could be some other kind of ELOHIM.

7) In the Bible, we see the Hebrew word elohim typically translated as God, BUT, it is also typically translated as something OTHER than God with a capital G—in HUNDREDS of places! So it doesn't necessarily mean "God". And that word in Genesis 1 used over and over again – elohim – may not mean God (at least) in certain places. The root of the word elohim is related to the meaning of power (might, strength, energy).

I think the verse that says (the) elohim said, "Let US make Man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness" (not just image but likeness also!) is evidence that this or these elohim here are NOT the typical "God" that people think it is. (This was written a couple thousand years before certain Christians would promote a Trinity doctrine.) So, made in elohim's image AND after elohim's likeness, People were.

This passage, and Genesis 11 (where it has YHWH/YHVH instead of the word elohim), say to me that the people back then were interacting (at times) with something that was not necessarily a god at all, but something with power, and something intelligent.

FINALLY:

I strongly urge a rereading of the Bible, looking at the original vs. versions that have been translated to fit preconceived notions of various religions.

We may see a completely different picture, starting with the FACT that the word elohim is translated as something other than "God" with a capital G, in hundreds of places. And I'd be willing to bet that it should be understood as something other than "God", in many more places.

More could be said about conclusions in the OP, but this is enough.

Enjoy!
TimeIsOnWhoseSide (?)

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I love how you use the term "argument ad hominem", which is an informal fallacy, and then in the next paragraph list both formal and informal fallacies as your 'proofs'.

Proof 1 is either :
An appeal to probability en.wikipedia.org...
An Existential fallacy ("You cannot explain this away as mere chance and you cannot attribute
this to the human mind of antiquity" Well actually you can, you're just not willing to.) en.wikipedia.org...
or probably Argument from (personal) incredulity (divine fallacy, appeal to common sense) – I cannot imagine how this could be false, therefore it must be true. - "I challenge you to do the same from English. Take the value of each English letter as follows. A=6, B=12 and so on"

Proof 2 is simple data mining.
Seriously it's a well documented party trick, but that's all it is. It has no significance whatsoever,
I can take any two topics in the world, at all, and look for similarities in said topics until i can conviningly argue that they must be in some way related.
Even if words make pi or if you translate words to other languages and back again ou get new words or whatever, what does that tell you other than monks used to get pretty damn bored back in the day.
You know, I never see these wannabe biblio-cryptographers mention anything about the apocrypha, or lost Gospels, or book burnings and confiscation of biblical sources and how that affects the "code"

classic example - www.omg-facts.com...

If you look for something that you want to see, you will find it. That doesn't make it True.

Peace

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ItDepends

 

if there is a GOD WHERE IS HE???? (and no he is not inside each of us...that is the latest explanation, because there is none..if he were, then we would not have the pain, suffering and atrocities we see every day.)

You can't appreciate pleasure without pain to contrast it, you can't appreciate light without dark, etc.

The universe is about balance, and if there is no counterweight (bad, dark, etc.) to compliment the other, everything would fall apart.

By the way, they say God is invisible. Did you know you have an invisible side to yourself which dictates who you are and what kind of person you are? God is not just inside you, he is also outside of you. Life itself is God, and you are part of it.

edit on 24-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Trust me my friend, I understand about the ying and yang of life and the balance. But, as time moves along...and we become more open to questioning things, it just doesn't add up. Would GOD allow the mutilation of a young baby girl? The rape of a woman? the warrantless killing of a teenager out for a run, the shooting of a girl because she just wanted to learn??

I could go on and on....WE are here, WE are alone, there is no GOD, there is NO advanced civilization.....how can WE allow human trafficing? Starvation as we rape the resources of the world, pollute the precious waters we need to drink....7 Billion and counting.

I am not here to disregard your beliefs. If that is what gets you the night....so be it...Amen. But, I only ask, at this time in History, if there is a GOD WHERE IS HE????? No cliche's , he's inside all of us (the murders, the crimes the atrocities...just don't cut it) even a gorilla protects their young, the Robin feeds her babies.....WHERE IS GOD???

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I commend you on what you are trying to reveal here but I must remind you that the carnally minded cannot and will not comprehend spiritual truths. Many are not ready for the meat of the Word and can only drink the milk of the Word.

Great topic! I will have to research this more myself.

reply to post by ItDepends


What about the woman who saved the school from being shot up recently? She would gladly tell you about God being her strength. Many times people point out the bad and use it as evidence for lack of God, but I say you are missing a lot of the evidence for God, and how He does step in. Why not every time? Why not have perfection? I get that, but here is why: Man was given free will, and that free will does not always line up with God, and so the actions of a persons who is disobedient to God can not only affect himself, but others.

God does not intervene always with free will, as He gives us a choice, but he does intervene with those who are aligned with Him. There is a lot of evil in this world, but also a lot of good. If a man decides to get drunk and drive home, then runs into an innocent woman and her child, which both die. Is this God's fault, or the man's fault? Clearly it is the mans fault. This logic may seem cold, but that is why Jesus is in the world, to teach people how to live, to show us that our actions affect more than just ourselves, to save us because we are in need of saving.

So whats your plan? We know the world is broken, but do you want more broken people trying to fix broken peoples problems? No we need someone perfect to save us from our sins, to guide us in the right direction, and that is Jesus, and he is here. Evil men succeed when good men do nothing.

Originally posted by drivers1492
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The title of or embedded vid is "Bible Code - Chuck Missler on the Hidden Torah Message" which I was pointing out has a problem. So yes you are promoting it sadly the fact you are then stating you are simply taking someone's word and in the same paragraph saying its evidence is sort of disheartening to me.

This is not the same bible code from the software of the rabbis. This is a simple counting of letters across the text. You are talking about matrix codes. There is a difference in Missler's code and the code matrix software. I am not denying the matrix codes. It is very interesting. I just don't use them.

reply to post by jiggerj


Jiggerj is correct in saying that we have zero work to do, in order to gain salvation. The only "work" we have is the work of accepting it, which is to believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I see, thank you for the clarification. I have no other comment on the rest of your posting as I haven't looked at it enough to do so.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I commend you on what you are trying to reveal here but I must remind you that the carnally minded cannot and will not comprehend spiritual truths. Many are not ready for the meat of the Word and can only drink the milk of the Word.

I agree. The OP is not for them. It is intended for the person that can read the post, compare to the antithesis, then rejoice over the truth. There are many who will read this post over the next few years and see the truth by reflection of opposites in dialogue. There is coming a time on this Earth that will leave no doubt that the authenticity of the Bible account is real. When that day comes, these threads will lead the way home for many.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos



LOL, hornets nest indeed.

I am of the opinion that the earth is way to complex an organism to even consider evolution. The ecosystem is just too complex from top to bottom. There are just too many things that depend on other things for most things to work.

Its like the machines we build. If we leave out a part or a part breaks, the whole thing collapses and you have to make repairs. Not only is the earth a complex organism, it has a built in ability to repair itself and sustain us humans. Its almost like someone anticipated what we were going to do to this planet.

Oil spills, fires, hurricanes, war, you name it, as humans we have seen it or done it and yet the earth is as durable as ever. It has to be intelligent design and whom ever that is, that built this place had a great foresight to anticipate the needs that sustain us here throughout the ages.

Of course, that is my faith as a Christian.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


If you take the product of letters times the number of letters in a fairy tale, then divide the product of words times the number of words, you will get a number. It probably won't be pi either.

This is proof of arithmetic. You can attach any significance you like to this number. If you have been indoctrinated into religious fairy tales, you can even use it as proof of creation.....if you don't mind a bit of laughter. This would indicate you have too much time on your hands. It would also be strongly indicative of something about creationism, perhaps not in the way you seem to think.....

Originally posted by honested3
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Jiggerj is correct in saying that we have zero work to do, in order to gain salvation. The only "work" we have is the work of accepting it, which is to believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord.

There's irony in there somewhere.

Good lord, People. Think about what you're believing in!

Originally posted by honested3
reply to post by ItDepends

 

What about the woman who saved the school from being shot up recently? She would gladly tell you about God being her strength. Many times people point out the bad and use it as evidence for lack of God, but I say you are missing a lot of the evidence for God, and how He does step in. Why not every time? Why not have perfection? I get that, but here is why: Man was given free will, and that free will does not always line up with God, and so the actions of a persons who is disobedient to God can not only affect himself, but others.

God does not intervene always with free will, as He gives us a choice, but he does intervene with those who are aligned with Him. There is a lot of evil in this world, but also a lot of good. If a man decides to get drunk and drive home, then runs into an innocent woman and her child, which both die. Is this God's fault, or the man's fault? Clearly it is the mans fault. This logic may seem cold, but that is why Jesus is in the world, to teach people how to live, to show us that our actions affect more than just ourselves, to save us because we are in need of saving.

So whats your plan? We know the world is broken, but do you want more broken people trying to fix broken peoples problems? No we need someone perfect to save us from our sins, to guide us in the right direction, and that is Jesus, and he is here. Evil men succeed when good men do nothing.

No doubt, there are many acts of kindness, bravery and love amongst us.....NO DOUBT!! I do not deny this, it is fact and it is true. But in my opinion, IMHO, these are people acting on beliefs, feelings, innate qualities developed over time of what is right and what is wrong.....NOT GOD. I am not here to dispel whether there is a GOD or not, nor am I here to change your beliefs.

But the horrifying tragedies, the abuse, the mutilation of young innocent lives, that most of us turn our head to everyday....happen every day. The occasional 'good' that happens is small and fades away quickly....we are surrounded by evil, killers, rapiists, child abuse, animal abuse, unspeakable crimes that would make anyone cry...they are happening every day...in ALL parts of the world.....Thousands are dying.....we rape the earth of her resources....we cannot feed the population.....millions are starving in horrendous living conditions, living in fear every day.

Those of us in so called 'civilized' cultures are distracted to the true abuses of our fellow man, our destruction of our planet. The Bible, Holy Scriptures, all of these fake prophets are for people who need hope.....hope has never died....there has to be more...a purpose!~! Well what if there is none?? That's what I ask. What if there is nothing but the cycle of living and dying...and that is it!!! If I am wrong...so be it!! However, after all this time, Where Is God (yeah I know, no one knows when or how) pretty convenient. Where is He???? Would he allow a pure, innocent 4 year old be shot dead in school? WHERE IS GOD???