If there really is a God or some supreme being or superior Alien Civilization....Where are they?

Originally posted by Jahari
Why do people always say earth is a planet in the middle of nowhere? What are we in the Antarctica of the universe. Where is the somewhere?

The fact its life in our neck of the woods makes this one of the places to be

edit on 23-8-2013 by Jahari because: (no reason given)

Well, i see your point that you are trying to make, however, you can only know where you are if you have a point of reference.....we don't even know where the center of the Universe is, or if there is one!! Hence, where are we?? Is there anybody out there? I really don't know. But it seems strange to me, that we haven't heard from HIM or THEM...and again Where Are They?

Originally posted by ItDepends

Originally posted by GodIsRelative
God, ET, whatever it is that could be out there, does not have to show itself to help us.
In closing, whether it's God or ET, I don't think either will show itself until every single human being on the planet is on their knees praying for outside help because it's the only thing left to do.

Perhaps this is true. However what a shame, what a disgraceful point in time to reach to...when we have to fall to our knees, pray for outside help because it is the only thing to do. And if HE and THEY are a No-show then???

the mistake is to think of it as outside help.. God is inside all of us and everything, we just don't notice because we're too busy being arrogant apes.. falling to your knees in desperation and praying to God is just asking the universe for a break, and if you sincerely mean it, you'll probably get one..

Why does it have to get to the final point of near extinction....?? Just a question. If HE is ALL powerful, loving and compassionate, I can see no reason why HE has not come back to correct this life.....and death that happens every day. It goes on and one....poor young children killed in schools, massacre's in movie theaters, human trafficing, child abuse, sickness, war, abuse.....enough is enough. And if THEY are really out there and are so superior....how could they NOT do something, even if it was malevolent???? Where are they??

it wont get to the point of extinction, we wont allow it, let alone God.. it's all about how far humanity is willing to slide before it finally gives up says, "ok then, we're f**ked, let's just try to stay alive and work together properly before the last of us are gone".. the power is in every single individual to make change, the problem is that most of them don't know how, or what change they even want, or are too lazy and content with their meaningless material position..

we'll get there, you'll see =)

Originally posted by tachyonmind

=(
the people have done this to themselves, and until they realise this and learn their lesson, humble themselves and change their attitudes, it will keep happening.. God only allows suffering as a lesson to those who cause it, and the sufferer's sacrifice is one of holy atonement.. those who cause the suffering receive no such atonement, and are doomed until they repent and change their behaviour..

i have complete faith in the ability of the human race to overcome the problems it faces, but first it needs to accept that there is a higher intelligence mediating all forces and to act against these forces is to doom itself to oblivion.. it needs to accept the messenger of God when he appears, and make an effort to understand his teachings..

last time i tried they crucified me.. go figure xD

I have often said, it is not God, but we ourselves that are doing the harm, destruction, all the evils that man despises, yet still contributes to. God gave us his teachings and free will to do as HE wishes for us. I have tried to make sense of this....but as time goes by, and I have researched, learned and continue to witness the horrible atrocities, I am becoming more and more doubtful. If God really does exist, why is HE NOT here!! As you said, his own creations, crucified HIM after bringing the WORD of GOD to his children. What has changed???

Honestly, I am just one person, just asking what seems to be a logical question. After all these years...where is HE?? and if THEY exist, where are they?? I'm skeptical, lacking proof, and as I see things deteriorate, feel that we are beyond hope as a civilzation much longer....how much is longer...perhaps less than 200 years. I hope I am wrong. Peace!!

Originally posted by ItDepends
Where are they?, I'd really like to know your thoughts?

Perhaps the answer to your question lies in your avatar picture...

He's got the whole world IN HIS HANDS!

"In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind." ~ Job 12:10

reply to post by tachyonmind


Thanks again, and I appreciate your positive approach, But you say "I Will See", unfortunately not in my lifetime, and for that matter, not for many generations, if at all.

I am just telling it like it is. There is destruction, hatred all around us. If God is in us....a funny way of showing it...Chemical warfare against there own citizens in Syria, massive killing in Egypt, continued belittling of woman and girls in Afghanistan and Pakistan to name a couple. The list goes on and on at every corner of this planet. Deforestation, Fukashima dumping 100's of thousands of tons of nuclear waste into the Pacific Ocean, dozens upon dozens of dolphins dying, beaching themselves up and down the east coast of Amerca. Threats of terrorism to kill innocent people....non-stop.

It's hard to see the goodness, the compassion, the selfishlessness. If HE exists, I cannot believe this would be allowed, it is just to wrong. and again, IF THEY exist, well Where Are They? Peace

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by ItDepends
Where are they?, I'd really like to know your thoughts?

Perhaps the answer to your question lies in your avatar picture...

He's got the whole world IN HIS HANDS!

"In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind." ~ Job 12:10

Thanks Murgatroid, and believe me the irony does not escape me, so thank you for that!!

However, I do think it is not a bad thing to question. As a Believer myself for all my years, more recently, I've just started to stop again and question things....a good thing. I just don't want to close my eyes and just hope, I want to believe in something that makes sense. Too many cracks in Religion, theology and the belief in a Benevolent God.....from the damage, destruction, pain and sorrow i witness and the adjectives could go on, makes me feel that if there is a GOD, it just does not make sense that HE would allow this to continue...even before, during and after HE gave his life...supposedly for us, that was then....what about now?? I question this...I am troubled, and honestly have begun to doubt in the existence of God. Where Is He??

Then the other theorists who believe perhaps that there are hundreds maybe millions of advanced Alien Civilizations...well if so, where are they??? Enough of the excuses, if they exist, by now there certainly would have been some tangible sign of contact...Where are they? Thanks for your input!!

Originally posted by ItDepends
if there is a GOD, it just does not make sense that HE would allow this to continue...

He is a gentleman...

He will never force His will on mankind.

God: "People want Me to do everything for them, but what they don't realize is, they have the power. You want to see a miracle, son? Be the miracle."

The reason that Religion is so full of cracks is because God's enemy is the one behind it.

God had NOTHING to do with it...

Originally posted by ItDepends

Originally posted by tachyonmind

=(
the people have done this to themselves, and until they realise this and learn their lesson, humble themselves and change their attitudes, it will keep happening.. God only allows suffering as a lesson to those who cause it, and the sufferer's sacrifice is one of holy atonement.. those who cause the suffering receive no such atonement, and are doomed until they repent and change their behaviour..

i have complete faith in the ability of the human race to overcome the problems it faces, but first it needs to accept that there is a higher intelligence mediating all forces and to act against these forces is to doom itself to oblivion.. it needs to accept the messenger of God when he appears, and make an effort to understand his teachings..

last time i tried they crucified me.. go figure xD

I have often said, it is not God, but we ourselves that are doing the harm, destruction, all the evils that man despises, yet still contributes to. God gave us his teachings and free will to do as HE wishes for us. I have tried to make sense of this....but as time goes by, and I have researched, learned and continue to witness the horrible atrocities, I am becoming more and more doubtful. If God really does exist, why is HE NOT here!! As you said, his own creations, crucified HIM after bringing the WORD of GOD to his children. What has changed???

Honestly, I am just one person, just asking what seems to be a logical question. After all these years...where is HE?? and if THEY exist, where are they?? I'm skeptical, lacking proof, and as I see things deteriorate, feel that we are beyond hope as a civilzation much longer....how much is longer...perhaps less than 200 years. I hope I am wrong. Peace!!

can't you see what i am trying to say..

i am right here.. i have been trying to enlighten you guys, help steer you towards a better future.. but very few choose to accept it, or even acknowledge that this is really happening.. it's frustrating.. fortunately, we have all the time in the world =)

Originally posted by Murgatroid
if there is a GOD, it just does not make sense that HE would allow this to continue...

He is a gentleman...

He will never force His will on mankind.

God: "People want Me to do everything for them, but what they don't realize is, they have the power. You want to see a miracle, son? Be the miracle.
The reason that Religion is so full of cracks is because God's enemy is the one behind it.

God had NOTHING to do with it...

Thanks again Murgatroid!! He will never force his will on mankind....you say. I am not sure this is true. Why? For a great many believers of some of the largest religious followers of Islam and Christianity, hold the scriptures and/or Holy tests as the Words of God. The ten commandments....I'd say he influenced millions...he has made his Will known, according to many......have we followed it, maybe for a very short time. However we are human, not perfect. Therefore we search for answers and try to make the scripture as God' authorship for our behavior our existence. But, it just never has happened, as soon as Jesus and the Prophet abandoned us.....the flocks scattered and began to translate, and TPTB during that time, perverted the meanings to save their rule, their dynasties.....a much different and perverted adaptaion of what The GOD had intended. Centuries have gone, we have have been run through fear.

Finally as the 20th century closed out and now the new 21st century has begun....honest review of these writings have found anamolies, misspeaks, and down right contradictions. If anything Martin Luther had it right, no one leader should lead the people, that is a human leader when it comes to Spiritual beliefs...hence fractions and down right despise of those who do not believe in that way of thinking....it persists today....more blatanly Islam versus Christianity...they exist for their own selfish survival. threats and fear.

I find it hard to believe NOW, that God has nothing to do with it....Does he not see the destruction, wars, plague, abuse, disregard of precious life....lack of love for our fellow man? How can a Loving God allow this?? No, it makes no sense....something is wrong....I for one, am challenging the paradigm, if he is all Powerful, then where is he??? How can he let this continue? It can be said, well he created us, gave us free will and it is all of our doing....fine, but he created us with all these flaws, we are not perfect...hence, he knew that we would go wayward and what we have now is horrible misuse of his intentions, and HE stands by?? He created us, he sees the mistakes....If God really does exist, Where is he? If he is in us, then we are in trouble....because all it takes is a quick look around the world....and it is terrible, horrible, it is a downer, agreed, but that is how I see it.

People suffering every day in third world countries....slaverly, torture, child trafficking, rape, murder and on and on.....how long before we continue to make certain living species go extinct?? Where is he??? Faith is honorable, but sometimes Bliss is ignorant. Hope is another thing...and I fear great many people are losing hope. Are people happy? not so much. We are in fear of the unknown. and all we can do is kneel, look up into the sky and say why? and Where are you in our darkest hours? If you exist Where Are You?

reply to post by ItDepends

If God really does exist, why is HE NOT here!! After all these years...where is HE??

The Bible tells us that God is going to put an end to evil and suffering...

"And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:4

Just because God has not YET ended evil, does not mean that He will not end evil.

It’s just going to happen according to His timing, not ours.

If he is more than just an imaginary big-daddy-in-the-sky, why does it seem that God is hiding from us? It stands to reason that the inability of anyone to produce a unicorn is a pretty good reason not to believe in unicorns. Why shouldn’t the same standard be applied to God? And if he doesn’t have a physical body, why won’t he at least produce an obvious sign that he is there…like the words “I am God, I am here” written in big flaming letters in the sky?

But with a little insight, it quickly becomes apparent why God keeps a low profile and doesn’t make himself available for appearances on the TV talk show circuit. In his book Disappointment With God, Philip Yancey reminds us that God has a problem: All of the impressive displays of power in the world will not force us to love him. And if God could force us to love him, it would not really be love. Love is not love unless it is freely chosen:

“Power can do everything but the most important thing: it cannot control love…"

In short, it all boils down to free will. If God made us unable to deny his existence, we would be unable to choose to love Him.

Why doesn’t God just show himself?

Yours Is a Purposed Experience

Peter anticipates your next question, "Why does a believer have to experience grief-producing trials?" He replies, "These have come so that your faith ... may be proved genuine" (v. 7).

As one of God's children, you are promised His presence, though for now you feel alone and without help. Rest in knowing God your Father has good reasons for bringing you into your trial. He is committed to making you holy, even if it means taking away your happiness for a time.

You will derive benefit from your trial, not by ignoring it or fainting under its weight, but by understanding its purpose. When you realize God is using the trial to make you aware of His grace in your life and fit you for eternal glory, praise, and honor, you'll be equipped to endure it even though it brings you into distress and heaviness of soul. www.gty.org...

I would just like to thank you to all of you who have replied with thoughtfulness and sincere ideas. This is what I was hoping for. To generate a discussion about the 'WHY's" and Where Are They"? A good discussion, I hope there will be more replies for further discussion Thank you very much!!! ID!!

Originally posted by Murgatroid
reply to post by ItDepends

 

If God really does exist, why is HE NOT here!! After all these years...where is HE??

The Bible tells us that God is going to put an end to evil and suffering...

"And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:4

Just because God has not YET ended evil, does not mean that He will not end evil.

It’s just going to happen according to His timing, not ours.

If he is more than just an imaginary big-daddy-in-the-sky, why does it seem that God is hiding from us? It stands to reason that the inability of anyone to produce a unicorn is a pretty good reason not to believe in unicorns. Why shouldn’t the same standard be applied to God? And if he doesn’t have a physical body, why won’t he at least produce an obvious sign that he is there…like the words “I am God, I am here” written in big flaming letters in the sky?

But with a little insight, it quickly becomes apparent why God keeps a low profile and doesn’t make himself available for appearances on the TV talk show circuit. In his book Disappointment With God, Philip Yancey reminds us that God has a problem: All of the impressive displays of power in the world will not force us to love him. And if God could force us to love him, it would not really be love. Love is not love unless it is freely chosen:

“Power can do everything but the most important thing: it cannot control love…"

In short, it all boils down to free will. If God made us unable to deny his existence, we would be unable to choose to love Him.

Why doesn’t God just show himself?

Yours Is a Purposed Experience

Peter anticipates your next question, "Why does a believer have to experience grief-producing trials?" He replies, "These have come so that your faith ... may be proved genuine" (v. 7).

As one of God's children, you are promised His presence, though for now you feel alone and without help. Rest in knowing God your Father has good reasons for bringing you into your trial. He is committed to making you holy, even if it means taking away your happiness for a time.

You will derive benefit from your trial, not by ignoring it or fainting under its weight, but by understanding its purpose. When you realize God is using the trial to make you aware of His grace in your life and fit you for eternal glory, praise, and honor, you'll be equipped to endure it even though it brings you into distress and heaviness of soul. www.gty.org...

You see, and it's just not me....it's in God's time, in the meantime, and the only subtle word I can use is the atrocities against his very children that have gone on with any sign of God's presence and his desire to intervene and stop these acts. The pain and suffering have gone on too much.
Even Jesus questioned his father...why have you forsaken me?

Psalm 22:1 contains perhaps the most well-known example, "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning." Jesus echoed that psalm on the cross: "About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' that is, 'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?'" (Matthew 27:46).

Why some 2,000 years later, is it not appropriate to ask the same question. Where Are You? Why have you forsaken us? Again, the atrocities around the world are so terrible and hard to discuss, especially the abuse, murder and torture of the young and innocent babies and children. Now in the 21st century, and ALL that we have learned about how the scriptures were created, legitimate questions arise. With all the pain and sorrow growing every day.....Where Are You God? If you really exist, Where Are You.....show us something.....help us understand.....we have lost our way, our efforts to get back are too difficult....we feel abandoned, if you exist, Where Are You? I'm sorry a 2,000 year old script that seems to have taken many parts from oral history passed down well before Jesus and are crossed referenced in many other writings (first signs of plagiarism) seem old, tired and not very helpful in the world today......It is time to show HIMself....Or someother sign or Higher Intelligence. Where are they??

Originally posted by ItDepends

Originally posted by Murgatroid
if there is a GOD, it just does not make sense that HE would allow this to continue...

He is a gentleman...

He will never force His will on mankind.

agreed He would be a gentleman if he were human.. but God's will is made up partly of the laws of physics, of which we are forced to comply.. i'm not complaining though, without these laws we wouldn't exist..

Thanks again Murgatroid!! He will never force his will on mankind....you say. I am not sure this is true. Why? For a great many believers of some of the largest religious followers of Islam and Christianity, hold the scriptures and/or Holy tests as the Words of God. The ten commandments....I'd say he influenced millions...he has made his Will known, according to many......have we followed it, maybe for a very short time. However we are human, not perfect. Therefore we search for answers and try to make the scripture as God' authorship for our behavior our existence. But, it just never has happened, as soon as Jesus and the Prophet abandoned us.....the flocks scattered and began to translate, and TPTB during that time, perverted the meanings to save their rule, their dynasties.....a much different and perverted adaptaion of what The GOD had intended. Centuries have gone, we have have been run through fear.

the scriptures must be taken in consideration of the times and populations to which they were directed.. in modern times, God's will is made evident through more subtle means, His communications with us is different to that of thousands of years ago..

jesus and the prophet never abandoned humanity, he was cast out.. it was not the first time.. in the times of vedic philosophy, he was called krishna.. He has come and gone from earth several times since man began, His
teachings have been been adopted by some and modified by others, every time he has left, the people have scattered and re-translated, only for it all to be upset the next time He returned, and then when he left, again the separation of what he taught and what his words were taken to mean have been further divided..

Finally as the 20th century closed out and now the new 21st century has begun....honest review of these writings have found anamolies, misspeaks, and down right contradictions. If anything Martin Luther had it right, no one leader should lead the people, that is a human leader when it comes to Spiritual beliefs...hence fractions and down right despise of those who do not believe in that way of thinking....it persists today....more blatanly Islam versus Christianity...they exist for their own selfish survival. threats and fear.

both are founded in the same original scripture however.. if you go back far enough, all religions agree, it's an inconvenient result os evolution, but it is not a problem that is insurmountable, provided people are willing to listen to reason instead of whatever their minister/vicar/priest/holy man interprets it to mean..

I find it hard to believe NOW, that God has nothing to do with it....Does he not see the destruction, wars, plague, abuse, disregard of precious life....lack of love for our fellow man? How can a Loving God allow this?? No, it makes no sense....something is wrong....I for one, am challenging the paradigm, if he is all Powerful, then where is he??? How can he let this continue? It can be said, well he created us, gave us free will and it is all of our doing....fine, but he created us with all these flaws, we are not perfect...hence, he knew that we would go wayward and what we have now is horrible misuse of his intentions, and HE stands by?? He created us, he sees the mistakes....If God really does exist, Where is he? If he is in us, then we are in trouble....because all it takes is a quick look around the world....and it is terrible, horrible, it is a downer, agreed, but that is how I see it.

He sees the destruction and is saddened.. but it was not His intention for us when we evolved us, and we are no where near the end of this will.. all organisms go through such growing pains, its a fact of life.. the challenge He has presented us is whether we can rise above our own subjective values of what is right and wrong and truly recognise the divine order of all things, and the role we play (or misplay) in this order..

God gave us reason, logic, and humility, but so few of us use it and develop it.. why?

..and all we can do is kneel, look up into the sky and say why? and Where are you in our darkest hours? If you exist Where Are You?

again, i say, hullo =)

there is nothing to fear, no matter how deep in torment you think you are, He is always on your side.. Humanity is barely adolescent, tough love is required when dealing with belligerent teenagers.. People starve and die because other people refuse to feed them.. these people need to understand what they do, but noone takes responsibility, thus we have the current mess..

what will grow crooked you can't make straight, it's the price that you've gotta pay.

I'm not a person believing in God, yet I don't reject it either, is kind of hard to put it in words.
In my opinion we are absolutely wrong in our assumption that God is some kind of supervisor over living realm, watching and waiting to interfere at any any moment. We are wrong perceiving God as a personal assistant who failed to do its job, because he exists only to make our life easier. And we are wrong to always put the responsibility on God.

But that is what the religion taught us for many centuries, and is very difficult to change that in human psyche. The archaic model of father and son. We are not his kids, we are not his sheep, and whoever say that is only looking to make us feel small, helpless and dependent. "There is nothing we can do, we are at his mercy". That is BS, in my opinion. That kind of God doesn't exist, even if we wait for him since the rise of humanity. I rejected that idea of God in my very young years.

If we wouldn't expect a father to guide us and help us in everything we do, our perception of life would be so much simpler. We would learn to trust ourselves, to respect our human fellows, to develop, to understand the law of cause and effect and rule our lives accordingly. When we go our daily job we don't expect our parents to come with us and protect us from harm, because they never promised us that. We would be ashamed crying for our father every time there is difficulties, yet we spend lifetimes of lamentations and calls for help to our divine father. Isn't that absurd?

The funny things is that after many years of escaping into eastern religions, which don't have a central god figure I started to understand the fundamental concept of God, beyond the limitation of a theistic religion.

We are of god essence. And I don't mean that in the sense of human intelligence, skills or paranormal abilities. I mean it in a very realistic way; the same force that is giving birth to a whole universe is living in us. We are immortal beings inhabiting a mortal body. And we are all of the same essence, like an ocean expressing through so many waves. There is no separation between the ocean and its waves. The waves come and go and the ocean lose nothing; is just the natural movement of life.
But...

We have to recognize that, we have to fully know ourselves.We are like a man sitting on its leg, and wondering why he can't walk. Asking for someone to bring him a leg. We have to see and realize our own potential and immortality.
Shortly, God is waiting within to be discovered, and as long as we are searching for him outside, there's no way we can overcome the difficulties of this life. As long as we are looking for a father we'll never know who we are. And we'll always be helpless and dependent.

Originally posted by WhiteHat
I'm not a person believing in God, yet I don't reject it either, is kind of hard to put it in words.
In my opinion we are absolutely wrong in our assumption that God is some kind of supervisor over living realm, watching and waiting to interfere at any any moment. We are wrong perceiving God as a personal assistant who failed to do its job, because he exists only to make our life easier. And we are wrong to always put the responsibility on God.

agreed.. but i'd go further and say that God is the living realm, He is not separate from it.. he doesn't watch and wait and intervene, he organised force and matter and energy in the first place and set limits on their interactions.. the continual playing out of life itself is representative of His divine will.. He doesn't interfere in human matters directly, rather the force of his will does, through every living thing..

But that is what the religion taught us for many centuries, and is very difficult to change that in human psyche. The archaic model of father and son. We are not his kids, we are not his sheep, and whoever say that is only looking to make us feel small, helpless and dependent. "There is nothing we can do, we are at his mercy". That is BS, in my opinion. That kind of God doesn't exist, even if we wait for him since the rise of humanity. I rejected that idea of God in my very young years.

religion has a lot to answer for.. its descriptions of God, if taken literally, are far removed from the reality..

If we wouldn't expect a father to guide us and help us in everything we do, our perception of life would be so much simpler. We would learn to trust ourselves, to respect our human fellows, to develop, to understand the law of cause and effect and rule our lives accordingly. When we go our daily job we don't expect our parents to come with us and protect us from harm, because they never promised us that. We would be ashamed crying for our father every time there is difficulties, yet we spend lifetimes of lamentations and calls for help to our divine father. Isn't that absurd?

it is absurd.. the Universe/God will react to everything you say and do, but that does not mean you will see it as "helping" you.. it's up to the individual to take his/her cues from the world and try to make sense of them.. the universe will keep repeating itself, over and over, until the individual understands..

The funny things is that after many years of escaping into eastern religions, which don't have a central god figure I started to understand the fundamental concept of God, beyond the limitation of a theistic religion.

We are of god essence. And I don't mean that in the sense of human intelligence, skills or paranormal abilities. I mean it in a very realistic way; the same force that is giving birth to a whole universe is living in us. We are immortal beings inhabiting a mortal body. And we are all of the same essence, like an ocean expressing through so many waves. There is no separation between the ocean and its waves. The waves come and go and the ocean lose nothing; is just the natural movement of life.
But...

We have to recognize that, we have to fully know ourselves.We are like a man sitting on its leg, and wondering why he can't walk. Asking for someone to bring him a leg. We have to see and realize our own potential and immortality.
Shortly, God is waiting within to be discovered, and as long as we are searching for him outside, there's no way we can overcome the difficulties of this life. As long as we are looking for a father we'll never know who we are. And we'll always be helpless and dependent.

i completely agree.. here, have a star.. the only way to understand anything, (including God or the universe), is by understanding ourselves, and the only way to understanding ourselves is to listen to our thoughts, consider everything we think and say as if we are separate from our own minds, which we kind of are..

consciousness is an abstract, it's separate from matter, and yet, we can't seem to differentiate it from our matter..

"what is matter? never mind.. what is mind? no matter.." -homer simpson

Originally posted by ItDepends

Originally posted by KaelemJames
God is Omnipresent. He is everywhere. He is Spiritual, all in all.

Closest people got to seeing Him, and survive His awesomeness was in Christ alone. Luckily we have The Holy Spirit over us on earth

If He had to stand, in His Spiritual presence before us, It would be the last thing we would see in our physical bodies.

Faith, and by faith alone.

We all get that gnawing in our heart, to search, seek. That is The Holy Spirit gnawing at us to look and see, open our ears and hear. But, the desires of the flesh makes us believe we are wise and can do all in flesh. Time to seek with our spirits, so that we can become part of Him, where we belong.

If that is true, and I am not disagreeing with you, but, how can this Ominpresent creator, just not appear? Where are they? We as a species seem lost...alone. We were promised based upon tradition that a God would eventually appear again. But When?? How can the atrocities continue without intervention....WE have shown that we are incapable of changing our evil ways....for as long as man has existed, there has been torture, abuse, death. Sure, there have been incidents of wonderful compassion, but far and few between. WE are dying. Where is this Omnipresence??? How can he ignore the horrors of this species?

Maybe god is all around you, is everything, but it is the finite human mind that cannot understand its true nature. Sure we cant ignore atrocities, but we cant assume that god should be all good either. It is what it is.

reply to post by ItDepends


You posted as if you don't know the sunday school story....so read about it! It's great reading and has an answer for anything you wonder about. And don't skip over the part about how it's coming down the pipeline any minute.....

reply to post by ItDepends


You raise valid questions. Its like asking who are we, where do we come from, and where are we going??

Is there Single creator some call God? An all powerful energy that sustains the ALL we perceive.

Speaking of perception.... How much do we see? We ONLY see what the LIGHT reveals to us. Read up on light and you will see.

Are the religious texts onto something stating we have a veil over our eyes? In Ancient greek mytho's they call it a mist. I think the answer is YES! We are limited in sight as well as our senses. We are not our complete selves as the body is nothing more than a vessel for our spirit.

We are like little children being raised in the wilderness (earth) by a bunch of wolves (greed). Learning is advanced through suffering.... its evident. Our purpose is to overcome and remain standing on two feet instead of falling and staying on the ground.

Maybe we are the fallen and we are just trying to make our way back up the ladder so to speak. It began with Adam and ended with Christ so basically it's finished. However here in time "as we know it" the story continues. We know how it ends though and it ends good!!

God shows himself through his creation. That is why he is defined as the Word. Communicating through all means necessary to get your attention. He is the brightest light imaginable! If he showed you his true form you would not be able to sustain in the flesh. Even without the flesh your spirit cannot handle the true light that gives life because the energy would wipe you out!

This video is only one of many lectures given by Manly Hall. He speaks with wisdom.. not just knowledge.


This link sgny.org... is an eye opener for the spiritually inclined individual.

Originally posted by tachyonmind

Thank you tachyonmind for your considerate responses. I must preface, that have been a Believer for most of my life, however, it is over time, with my eyes wide open, and a personal search to learn, evolve and look at what I believe and why.

The Christian community was raised on fear. The Islamic community still instills fear. (I only refer to these two as they have the greatest followers in the World, I do recognize the many others such as Buddhism, Hinduism and others.)

However, my questions, observations are not ones of 'fear'. Rather:
1.) God has laid down his laws, HIS expectations, HIS model for his Creation to follow.
2.) Even when Adam and Eve disobeyed his command, he intervened and made changes
3.) Throughout the early history of MAN, GOD apparently made his presence many times according to Holy Writing and Scriptures.
4.) It appears most of the NEW TESTAMENT was compiled hundreds of years after the death of Jesus. (specific times and actual authors of these Gospels are still in debate.
5.) It is understood that is was man, Constantinople convened a group of Bishops, leaders who formed what we NOW recognize as the HOLY BIBLE (although claimed to have been created by Divine Intervention), no sign of this.

Disclaimer, I do not claim my expert on Biblical studies, however after growing up in religious education and then out of curiosity, decided to investigate, to learn, to understand WHAT it is that I believe in, It was at this point I came to the conclusion that the Bible, Qu'ran and all of the other religions were nothing but creations of man, a way to control people for power and personal gain.

Sure, some of the basic tenets seem logical. To love one and other, be honest....etc.

I do not want to turn this into a religious, theological discussion. However, in the end, HE said he would return. Although HE and HIS teachings were based upon many previous interventions, appearances.....TODAY, over two thousand years later, when we seem to need him most....WHERE is he.

Perhaps it is a concept that I just cannot grasp, but, I find it incomprehensible to believe that if there TRULY is a GOD, seeing the horrible, pain, suffering, abuse, death, murder not only to each other...but especially to the truly innocent babies and children (I could name the atrocities that are done to these innocents that are pure evil and disgusting) is unacceptable. Most people would say this is wrong....but where is this All and Powerful God who created everything, is responsible for everything?? If he DOES exist, Where IS HE? I can no longer believe that if HE does exist, that HE would not intervene, something is wrong, so many people cry, beg, ask, pray for his love and help....HE is ABSENT......the time has come and passed, IMHO, if he ever existed, the time has more than come....Where IS HE??

so lets say God shows up one day and says ok all you skeptics and doubters....here I AM, and im real!


....then what?

you really think human nature will just *boing* change in that instant and everyone will be 'good' and do the right thing now they have this 'proof' God is real? You've got to be kidding me. Can you really be so naive as to think human nature, your nature...mine, will just suddenly change for the better?

think of the countless examples we have in our ordinary lives to prove we are incapable of keeping the 'feeling' alive for very long. The new lovers that promise forever to each other...only a few years later to gradually drift apart...start having affairs....yelling and screaming..then divorce. The new mother or father holding the newborn in their arms...looking into its eyes dreamily and with grandiose visions of how well they will raise that child..how theyll give it the world....only a few years later to be slapping it around the house for sneaking out at night or having the wrong boyfriend, girlfriend etc. The starry eyed young man that joins the police force to make a difference and help people....only later to succumb to peer pressure and start robbing drug dealers and running his own prostitution ring.

I could go on and on....every day we read about the fall of man......how the innocent turn corrupt...how the idealistic become the most hardened pessimists. And you think God showing up will magically change that?



wow.......