Interactive map traces 463 of the Bible's contradictions.

reply to post by Deetermined


What about this one?

John 19
17 They took Jesus therefore, and He went out, bearing His own cross, to the place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha.

Luke 23
26 And when they led Him away, they laid hold of one Simon of Cyrene, coming in from the country, and placed on him the cross to carry behind Jesus.

Do these two verses compliment or complete each other as well? Because one says Simon carried Jesus' cross while the other says Jesus carried it.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Criteria of authenticity only has to do with the bible from what I've gathered, so your source saying it is important for "any" historical research is odd.

Maybe it would help to show what makes up the "Criteria of Authenticity"...

www.westmont.edu...

reply to post by Deetermined


And all of those bullet points contain biblical references. What's your point exactly?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The fact that Matthew, Mark and Luke all mention Simon Cyrene carrying the cross, I would say that Simon most likely carried the cross.

(Matthew 27:31-32) - "And after they had mocked Him, they took His robe off and put His garments on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him. 32 And as they were coming out, they found a man of Cyrene named Simon, whom they pressed into service to bear His cross."

(Mark 15:20-21) - "And after they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, and put His garments on Him. And they *led Him out to crucify Him. 21 And they pressed into service a passer-by coming from the country, Simon of Cyrene (the father of Alexander and Rufus), to bear His cross."

(Luke 23:26) - "And when they led Him away, they laid hold of one Simon of Cyrene, coming in from the country, and placed on him the cross to carry behind Jesus."

I personally don't care if you want to call John's version a contradiction, but it doesn't change the fact that Jesus was crucified.

reply to post by Deetermined


How did Judas die?

Matthew 27
3 Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.”

And they said, “What is that to us? You see to it!”

5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Acts 1
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Did Judas hang himself or explode in midair?

reply to post by Deetermined


But it IS a contradiction, and John was the closest apostle to Jesus so I find it odd that you take the others words over his.

You can't explain that one away, it is a contradiction and the bible is proved to be fallible.

I don't think anyone ever challenged whether Jesus was crucified or not, it's pretty evident that he was.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


Because he is an agnostic, meaning he is still open to the idea of a god, unlike Craig who is not open to anything other than the god he worships currently.

Craig is an evangelist, meaning he tries to convert others to his cause, meaning he is a bible thumper of the highest order, so his bias toward the bible is a conflict of interest. As far as I know, Ehrman is not an evangelist.

Also, I don't understand why if someone voices their opinion and explains why they are not/no longer a Christian, that automatically means they are somehow "attacking" it. Voicing your opinion on something is different from attacking it.

reply to post by Deetermined

Originally posted by Deetermined
I personally don't care if you want to call John's version a contradiction, but it doesn't change the fact that Jesus was crucified.

But that's not the point. The point is that the bible has contradictions so whether Jesus actually existed or was crucified or not is irrelevant. Contradictions are in there...

The contradictions I have seen and read and have become aware of during my years of study and debates with multiple Atheists friends have always been through a misunderstanding. That means it comes down to interpretation or a better understanding of the scripture to understand.

The important thing is that there are no doctrinal contradictions in the Bible. By that I mean the Bible tells us that Jesus is the way the truth and the life etc, yet there is nothing contradicting this, or saying there is some other way. Other religious texts such as the Koran have these contradictions, but not the Bible.

Many of the contradictions have to do with God being perceived as a murderer, or something on a scientific level, all of which show a lack of understanding the scripture.

So my challenge is rather than bicker about something that supposedly "contradicts" the Bible, lets find a doctrinal contradiction, something that truly does rip the Bible in two, because you wont find it. This map holds up the same as the Atheist statistics that Atheists are more intelligent than religious folk. Lets post out each of the 463 contradictions on a document to analyze them all.

Just another thought, lets see how many contradictions the Atheist's faith of evolution and unfounded science has. Then finally we will take our 463 "contradictions" to your however many contradictions exceeding 463 and see which requires more faith afterall!

reply to post by honested3


Okay. The doctrine is vastly different between the teachings of Jesus and those of Paul.

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions .

Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you (Ephesians 4.32).

Jesus taught that our forgiveness depends on forgiving others. Paul taught that "God's forgiveness was an already accomplished fact, and therefore, we should forgive others in return.

Jesus ministered under Mosiac Law

Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Paul taught that Christians were free from the Law.

Rom 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

reply to post by honested3

Other religious texts such as the Koran have these contradictions, but not the Bible.

Maybe you aren't interpreting it the right way or you don't have adequate understanding of the Koran, so you misinterpret these truths as contradictions...?

Sounds like a cop-out doesn't it?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Deetermined

 

How did Judas die?

Matthew 27
3 Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.”

And they said, “What is that to us? You see to it!”

5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Acts 1
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Did Judas hang himself or explode in midair?

Most if not all of these contradictions are based on poor understanding of hermeneutics
www.studytoanswer.net...
Clearly, Judas hanged himself. What happened to his body after this? What NORMALLY would happen to the body of a person who had hanged himself in isolation, in a society which considered death by hanging from a tree to be a curse and greatly ignoble (see Deuteronomy 21:23)? Judas hanged himself on Friday. His body hung from the tree and began to decay. His body would have hung on the tree all day Saturday as well, as this was the Sabbath, and no self-respecting Jew would remove the cursed body of a dead man from a tree on the Sabbath. Thus, his body was hanging for at least two days, if not more, in the hot and humid climate of Palestine in the late spring *. When a body is dead and begins to decay, internal pressure builds up from gas which is generated by anaerobic decay, which begins to swell the abdomen (as this is the softest part of the body, being that it is unprotected and not encased by the skeletal structure). If the rope or the branch broke from which Judas was hanging, his body would fall headlong, and would certainly split open like a ripe melon, right at his abdomen, causing what was left of his internals to spew out, just as is described happening to him. This would be because of the pressure built up from the internal gas caused by decay. If he had been hanging long enough, he may even have popped like a balloon.

Thus, there is a perfectly logical, and in fact probable, explanation for why Judas could both hang himself, and also be described as having fallen headlong and burst open in his middle. The supposition that these two passages contradict each other is based more on the desire of the sceptic for it to be so, than on any actual contradiction which is presented in the written Word of God. Remember, a contradiction is when two written or spoken testimonies say things which cancel out the validity of one another, which is most certainly not the case with these two passages. Instead, in Matthew 27:5 and Acts 1:18, we see two different parts of the same overall story laid out in a complementary fashion concerning the ignoble demise of the traitor Judas.


To many dont understand the conflict between the law of Moses and how it still exists for those outside of Christ and the law of grace believers have in Christ

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

What about this one?

John 19
17 They took Jesus therefore, and He went out, bearing His own cross, to the place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha.

Luke 23
26 And when they led Him away, they laid hold of one Simon of Cyrene, coming in from the country, and placed on him the cross to carry behind Jesus.

Do these two verses compliment or complete each other as well? Because one says Simon carried Jesus' cross while the other says Jesus carried it.

"He went out bearing His own cross" doesnt suggest He carried it the whole way does it.
If so, how?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Deetermined

 

So, you combine the two accounts and get a new and different account that isn't in any of the gospels. You essentially have written your own gospel.

When did Jesus die? After Passover or before? The gospels are conflicted on this too. Was the Last Supper a Passover meal, as it says in Mark:

Mark 14
14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

15 And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.

16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.

Or, did Jesus die on the day of preparation of the Passover, as in John's account, and the Last Supper was just a meal?

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha).

14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

edit on 24-8-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Possibly the greatest compliment an atheist agnostic non Christian or Christian can give to Christianity is a critique of the gospels and epistles.
It keeps Christianity honest and its advocates in a constant state of research

anyway
Here you go

To begin, we see that the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke state that it was the first day of unleavened bread. In Matthew 'Feast of ' is not in the original text and Mark and Luke state specifically that it was the day of unleavened bread in which the Passover Lamb was slain. This is explained by understanding that unleavened bread was also eaten with the Passover meal on the fourteenth day of the first month (Ex. 12:8). Therefore, it was the first day in which unleavened bread was eaten. However, following the one-day Feast of the Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread continued as a seven-day feast from the fifteenth of the month until the twenty first day (Lev. 23:4-8). During this feast an offering made by fire was done each day. Since this would be a total of eight days, the Lord's Sabbath would also occur during this time. Therefore, not only would the usual sacrifice be done on the Sabbath but also the one done during the seven-day feast. This explains why John calls this Sabbath a 'High Day' (John 19:31). Furthermore, we need to understand that sometimes all days were called 'the Passover' (Luke 2:41; 22:1; Acts 12:3-4) or the seven days were the 'Passover Week' (John 18:28; 19:14). Also, the Sabbath, the day of rest, was on a Saturday. Concerning John 19:14, "the day of Preparation" does not mean the day of preparing for the Passover. In the first century "the day of Preparation" meant "the day to prepare for the Sabbath" -- in other words, Friday. It is this usage which is relevant in John 19:14. Thus, "the day of Preparation of the Passover" means "the Friday of Passover week." John is referring to the Preparation Day before the Sabbath and states this clearly in 19:31. By this reasoning all the gospels will be in agreement. Therefore, the Last Supper was Passover night, and Preparation Day of the Sabbath was the next day in which Jesus was crucified.
www.enlightener.org...

reply to post by borntowatch


"Bearing his own cross, to the place called the Place of a Skull".... implying he carried it all the way to the spot where he was crucified.

Keep sticking your head in the sand.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Only difference is.....

If you build the Christian version and went public, the next day you'd find cakes and pies on your doorstep with cards from concerned Christians hoping you'd reconsider your position, and letting you know they'd be praying for you.

If you built the Muslim one, you'd be kidnapped at night along with your family. You'd be dismembered piece by piece and so would your family. Then they'd go on Al-jee-zee-rah and brag about how they got the infadel!

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

Here's another that has always bothered me:

Jesus was the first person to rise from the dead.
Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Others rose from the dead before him.
1 Samuel 28:11, 14
Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel .... And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel.
1 Kings 17:22
And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
2 Kings 4:32-35
And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, and laid upon his bed. He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD. And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm. Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times.
2 Kings 13:21
And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
Matthew 9:23-25
And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise, He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
Matthew 27:52-53
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Luke 7:12-15
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her. And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not. And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise. And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
Luke 9:30
And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias.
John 11:43
And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

Not sure if the OP studied the Scriptures extensively and did the investigation himself or just repeating what others "think" is a contradiction. I assume the latter.

In any case, a careful look at the context and related verses usually will shed light to these so called "contradictions".

Take for example your post, you said:

Here's another that has always bothered me:

Jesus was the first person to rise from the dead.
Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Others rose from the dead before him.

As simple cross reference with 1 Peter 3:18 reveals - that INDEED Jesus was the "first to be resurrected" as a "spirit" being. In this state Jesus IS the ""first to be resurrected" that will NEVER die!

As the scripture say:

"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;"-- 1 Peter 3:18 RSV

All of the people mentioned in the list died again - except Jesus because "Christ also died for sins once for all."

(Rev 1:5 RSV) - "and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood"

(Rev 1:17 RSV) - "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last,"

(Rev 1:18 RSV) - "and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades."

reply to post by spartacus699


Sure, because we all know every single Muslim in the world is a cold-blooded murderer who has no respect for any life outside of their own.

Stereotype much?

Take a look at this link, it might show you just how wrong you are.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by borntowatch

 

"Bearing his own cross, to the place called the Place of a Skull".... implying he carried it all the way to the spot where he was crucified.

Keep sticking your head in the sand.

17 and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called The Place of a Skull, which in Aramaic is called Golgotha.

Yes we have done this again
I like the way you skipped the part of Christ "going out", suggesting He started the journey on His own.

Believe what you want, doesnt make you a scholar, theologian or a interpreter.

If that is a contradiction then you can take it and celebrate, you have that right to do so.
Its not to me.