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There is no salvation!

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posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 12:54 AM
a) obey laws society put in place

b) self destruct

Hmmm, hard to choose. Even in the face of hard evidence that the aliens show, alot of humans would choose NOT to believe them. Too many variables in a human population. Some might call the aliens evil or something and say they're lying. I don't know which to pick in this scenario.
Maybe a division similar to what we're seeing now after this election...
"sigh"...but since you take away my beloved "gray-area" okay I pick
b) self destruct

This is a fun test! Is it leading to something?

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 01:12 AM

Originally posted by shmick25
...Alians came to earth, and showed all the human beings how they created humans and earth as an experiement, gave a detailed explanation of the earth's history, how there was no hope beyond the grave and that eventually the earth would burn itself out. Then they went off into space in their spaceships.

Everyone on earth now knows the same truth...

Does everyone on Earth knows one simple truth that man is just a biorobot?

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 01:14 AM
Leading somewhere? Why does it have to lead anyway?
The thread is meaningless just like life!! hehehe

Nah, just curious to know what people think. It is amazing how complex people are and how there is a need to believe in something more than our simple selves to give meaning to our lives. From personal experience, some people do not even WANT to think about the meaning of life as it scares the crap out of them, and they do live and just die making not much of an effort to confront the big questions in life.

Me? Well, I am just to complex a person than to let life just pass me by. I have my beliefs and what I see is proof that I am going in the right direction. Everyone has their own beliefs to a degree as everyone is uniquely different.

So there we go!

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 01:17 AM
Let me quote from a book I am reading right now from a former Muslim:

    To invent fables about a world "other" than this one has no meaning at all, unless an instinct of slander, detraction, and suspicion against life has gained the upper hand in us: in that case, we avenge ourselves against life with a phantasmagoria of "another," a "better" life.

    The "Last judgement" is the sweet comfort of revenge...The "beyond"--why a beyond, if not as a means for besmirching this world?

    Furthermore, the beyond is a way for the self-proclaimed prophets and priests to retain control, to terrorize the people with the tortures of hell, and equally seduce them with the licentious pleasures of paradise. "The concepts 'beyond', 'Last Judgement', 'immortality of the soul', and 'soul' itself are instruments of torture, systems of cruelties by virtue of which the priest became master, remained master."

    The contingency of this life should make man aware of its beauty and preciousness. The harsh truth that this is the only life we have should make us try and improve it for as many people as possible.
Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not a Muslim.

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 01:32 AM

Originally posted by shmick25

We evolved from nothing to something. Man began to question its existence and invented religion as an answer (but this is fake and a simple figment of our imagination). We live and die. On the grand scale of things our lives represent less than a speck of dust. The feelings of love, peace, anger, joy, happiness etc in the end amount to nudda.

We have 0 an average of 65 years to live and then die. To experience a hope but in the end comes the realization we are nothing more than educated monkeys. There is no salvation. Life then death.

Can you really buy into this argument?

First in order to know the "grand scale of things," this monkey brain has to be aware of it. In order to know for sure that our feelings of "love, peace, anger, joy, happiness etc. in the end amount to nudda," takes a high degree of calculation, a grand intelligence that transcends even a crude explanation such as "salvation." In other words your argument is "diabolical," since it assumes too much, even more than "salvation."

On the scale of things you cannot explain how you came to be, so why complain about the "fact of death," or "objective death," which requires all outside observers except one, the die-ee.

Your viewpoint is simply another one of those philosophical scales of things called "nihilism," an intriguing pessimism that underscores raw profit taking, and in the end waiting for "salvation," that probably never comes. But then again who can say the person who is dead to their own perception, is really "dead?"

If you can think about nothingness, you can think about somethingness, or "salvation," which is being clean if you will, washed. It is as simply as taking a spiritual bath. Some call it Baptism, others may prefer not having any overbearing obligations in their life, and call it a refreshing meditation on "it all."

Hey keep on thinking, you are going to get whatever you expect, you are in charge of your own life. If you think "the government is out to get you," eventually it will. If you think "the world was made for me, and all people are either my friends or potential friends," that is largely what you are going to get unless you run into too many nihilists.

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 01:44 AM
The most poignant question regarding eternal salvation is not whether it exists, but whether it is actually necessary in the first place.

The case for it has not been made, unless "God says so" is accepted as truth, in which case pretty much anything goes.

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 01:53 AM
Never argue dogma. It is the domain of faith. The proof of God is not to be found in the material world. The proof is a personal discovery of those who seek to find God and his will in their lives.

It's as simple as that. No one has said it better than Buckaroo Banzai:

"Wherever you go, there you are."

[edit on 04/11/12 by GradyPhilpott]

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 06:00 AM

Originally posted by shmick25
We can rule out all of the religions on earth, as no solid proof exists that there is a God. (After all, the bible and other scriptures were written by man).

Sounds good.. that would get rid of all the holy wars.

We now have a problem as we are destroying our planet; humans are a plague and are consuming all of the earths resources. The environment is changing, and if nature doesnt destroy us, the threat of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction will.. sooner or later.

The threat of terrorism is predominently fueled by religion.. once humankind stops obsessing over 'god'.. we might actually start looking and appreciating ourselves and finnally start taking care of our home. It created us and should be respected as it is our lifeline.. god is not.

The only solution is to advance technology enough to fund an advanced space program and to find another planet that can support life.

I don't think our planet is a complete write-off [yet].. but I do see colonising other planets a natural proggression for us. We might have to live inside biospheres on Mars or the moon for instance but we've got to start somewhere.

So in short, the long term future of mans survival isnt looking that good, which leads me to where:

The threat of the hole in the ozone layer doesn't even compare to the threat of relgion and neucleur war.

On the grand scale of things our lives represent less than a speck of dust. The feelings of love, peace, anger, joy, happiness etc in the end amount to nudda.

Nudda? I think therefore I am.. I have self awareness so it does not even matter if I'm only a speck of dust in the grand scheme.. though it clearly does to others.. especially believers. I don't need something out side myself to qualify my existence.

We have 0 an average of 65 years to live and then die. To experience a hope but in the end comes the realization we are nothing more than educated monkeys. There is no salvation.

What is so wrong with saving ourselves?

Life then death.

Can you really buy into this argument?

I think it's a wonderful concept. The finiteness of life makes me appreciate being alive even more.

As for this person:

Going to another planet will solve nothing, because the heart of man is evil.

Speak for yourself.. my heart is not evil. You have very low expectations of humanity.. that all too common 'we're all damned' attitude is what might destroy it.

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Byrd

Ah, but you can't rule out philosophies like Buddhism and you still have to account for universal "near death experiences" that indicate people of all religions go to heaven.

I'm pretty sure its been proven that near death experiences, the things that are seen + the sensation of peace comes from chemicals in the brain

no matter..jebus allah buddah i love you all

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 09:02 AM
"Wherever you go, there you are," is true.

"Life comes from prior Life," is also true.

So, wherever I am I can relate to the Prior Life and be with my Father's thoughts and dreams in his Virtual House.

This is an answer to Alienation for both the Father and the Child.

This also means the Child may be completely UNIQUE in the eyes of the Father; or the Child may fit in to some Group of Other Children, with their shared Thoughts and their understanding of Reality.

Being ALONE is the typical experience of a Universe Traveler. Actually, there are very few places where Life exists at all.

Life Experiencers truly have very little in common with each other; and clumping in associations is highly unlikely for those who find their Father.

Any and every human is so tiny, one can only manifest a sherd, a splinter, a crumb of our Father's characteristics; but He loves us nonetheless because we choose to attach to His thoughts regularly and we choose to be His Child.

We show that we have made the Choice to be our Progenitor's Child by allowing our Father to visit and view effects and harmony or disharmony that we create in our "wake."

It is by our behavior that one expresses either Light [joy] or Darkness [woe] among the humans with whom we interact.

Producing Darkness is not always bad; causing those who cause suffering to see and realize their effects causes great darkness--just as has befallen the world today of all days. Look anywhere, on ANY cam-site. They're all dark today.

Bush has been served with Impeachment papers that says he is an incompetent leader. Arafat is dead and the Pope is dying. The world is dark because there is NO NEW LEADERSHIP in the wings. There is no one lighting up the way back to Truth. Elites each and only speak and tell their ideations surrounding control of others--not of the connectedness of ALL.

There is no speaking of Peace, nor of Harmony, nor of Prospering Everyone--not at all or anywhere. Humanity is scared.

And when humanity realizes we threw away Truth for fables and fantasies in our dream worlds, then the sun will darken--also--literally.

That's when our Father who started us here will come claim this world and take it Home for repairs.

You who have written this thread all speak of Alienation--of not knowing who your Father IS--well, I had no earthly Father so I found my spiritual one. And He's cool.

See STS-80 clips 2 and 3

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 09:28 AM

Originally posted by shmick25
Let me explain it to you this way (not saying I buy into it).

If you knew for 100% certainty that there is no god or supernatural whatever out there, how would it change your life?

It wouldn't.

I don't need some sort of Cosmic Thunderer to give my life purpose. I don't need the Big Stick In The Sky to make me someone who is kind to others, and I think it says something not very flattering about people who need some kind of Great Controller to make them behave in kind and civilized ways to each other.

I don't need a "promise that things will get better after you drop dead" to make myself move toward making my life and the lives of my friends and family members happier. That's one of those "keep them happy with their miserable lot in life by telling them that there's going to be this huge reward when they die."

That's how they used religion against the slaves in this country: Obey Massa here on Earth and when you die you get to walk on streets of gold in Heaven.

No thank you.

posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 09:47 AM
Okay. Cool. You've just defined yourself as one of the "meek ones" who will inherit the Earth.

But that doesn't say that you have a CERTAINTY, none of the rest of us will ever relate to Cosmic Beings [OUT THERE].

You can never know to whom the rest of us will relate--or what ETs exist or what ETs can possibly do to impact our lives.

You KNOW ETs can impact people. We have enough abductee stories to realize THAT.

So you want to remain isolated, yourself? That's fine. So, what now? How do you want to archive your memories when this body wears out?


[edit on 12-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:24 PM
I have a theory that humans of an inherent concept of salvation that comes in many forms, not simply religion.

Some girls I know for instance, like to go out with the so called 'bad boys', not just because they are cool, but some seem to think that they can turn them into good boys, saving them from what they were.

Governments like to liberate countries they feel are in need of liberating, or saving them.

In prisons, there are many programs to try to correct criminals by re educating them and turning them into good people or saving them from themselves!

Greenies want to save the trees and animals from destruction.

People love to fix up and restore old houses and cars.

There is this inherent need to fix or save things. And as I have stated, everyone does this in one way or another and no one is exempt from this in some shape or form.

So how does this differ from the Christian message? If humans have this desire, then why isnt it possible for God to have the same desire as well.. after all, it is possible that he gave us this attribute?

Think about it. God sees that humans are all screwed up as a supposed consequence of sin. He has a natural urge to restore us to how he created us 'salvation'. The problem is, this salvation is only available if you believe in God that offers salvation.

If you dont believe in this God, then you need to find salvation through different means or even resigning to the fact that you dont want or need help or salvation from anyone or anything.

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 01:18 PM
it doesnt matter WHAT you have faith in, its IF you have faith in something. God wont send someone to Hell if theyve never been exposed to christianity. if you know enough about each religion, you will realize that they are all the exact same, they just have differnet names and slight alterations. the muslims beleive in God, but they call him Allah. they dont think Jesus is the son of God, but they do beleive that he was a prophet. the hinduists beleive in "The Father", "The Son" (still not the son of God), but not "The Holy Ghost". they dont beleive in the Trinity. they dont think that God and Jesus are One.

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