89-Year-old WWII Vet Beaten to Death by 2 Black Teens - Developing

reply to post by wrabbit2000


You seem to know your stuff and have a rational outlook on life, so I just wanted to get your feel for how many gun owners would be capable of carrying out the feats you described upthread, such as shooting the attacker of a woman being raped, or the 2 youths in a car park attacking an 88yr old guy scenario? From what you've said, it appears you'd be happy with the majority of gun owners getting out their guns in such circumstances, amirite?

Originally posted by missed_gear
In the News as well...

DHS Manager ran and racist site...

Australian news is reporting about traveling to the US as not wise...

The list goes on.

That said, perhaps a a great deal of these crimes will start to surface. More than likely, no comment from the
same leaders of the community that tried to bring T. Martin to the front page everyday.

MG

My teen offspring was offered a US college pathway in his chosen sport. He hated me, but I said no and when we heard about Christopher, who used to school with my child, we were completely devastated but damn, also so deeply grateful for our choice. I feel so sorry for his mum and dad. We don't need gov or media to tell us anything...I knew then what I know for certain now, that it's simply too dangerous to send our kids to the US, though even we were surprised this happened in the epitome of quietville OK.

We have had our fair rash of utterly insane teen behavior here too..we're not immune to this 'insanity whatever' that is going around the world....same MO..completely conscienceless acts undertaken by kids who have everything at their disposal, at least here though, most teens don't carry guns. It doesn't stop attacks with knives machete or car attacks...but it gives the unarmed a fighting chance.

This isn't a race issue, though we're are being led to that by msm....it is an issue of conscience...building them..or not...as, black white or brindle, that what is missing.

edit: vale to the gentleman lost, what a survivor.

Ro

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Since you seem to like to derail the thread with other topics and hypothetical scenarios, let me ask you this.

Do you think Martin would have tackled Zimmerman and started beating him if he knew that he was armed?

reply to post by IvanAstikov

You seem to know your stuff and have a rational outlook on life, so I just wanted to get your feel for how many gun owners would be capable of carrying out the feats you described upthread, such as shooting the attacker of a woman being raped, or the 2 youths in a car park attacking an 88yr old guy scenario?

What percentage would shoot? That's easy! The percentage that wants to live.

From what you've said, it appears you'd be happy with the majority of gun owners getting out their guns in such circumstances, amirite?

That's the spirit of the second amendment as upheld by the SCOTUS; the right to bear arms for lawful self defense and the defense of others.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


My mentioning of the Zimmerman case wasn't me bringing it into the topic, it was in response to somebody else's inevitable mention every time a black person commits a horrific crime. Don't try and make it out like I'm derailing the thread, and as to your hypothetical about whether Trayvon would have attacked George if he'd known he was armed, the answer is no, but I don't think he attacked him anyway, except in self defence, and even then, not very effectively.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Okay, then let me back up a step and remove the edge from my words... lol... I was mistaking your messages for leading a different direction and that's my bad for how this topic often goes. Assumptions.... Ugh.. (holds out paw to be slapped).

In all honesty? About the %'s I said above is what I think is realistic. Then halve those for everyone but the combat vets on ever doing it a second time. After all, the first time? No one knows what comes next for the mental anguish and self recriminations on even the justified one. The second time? Oh, now they know what horror awaits from what happens when they take the next action.

What do I know? No.. I haven't shot anyone, for the record on these topics. I've been in two situations where I was shot at and was returning the fire to keep from BEING shot but neither happened under circumstances I care to elaborate more on right now. Suffice it to say, I learned something about myself and found my actions more acceptable the second time than the first. The other thing I consider in why and how I came about carrying a gun was something that happened when I was 18. A friend betrayed me and convinced someone I was a "snitch" for his own personal gain. That led to a confrontation I wasn't expecting with a wild eyed junkie holding the point of a knife over my heart strong enough to draw blood. I'd have thought I might pee my pants or shake or something...to have guessed before it actually happened? In reality I shocked myself by going ice cold and really, no longer caring in the moment if he did it or not. That' in hindsight, is all that kept it from happening, IMO. He saw that in my eyes, I was just as cold crazy as he was at that moment ...

Such is life and how NOT black/white defense is, eh?

So... If I came upon to kids kicking the stuffing out of an old man I could see may be killed by it? The only thing I'd hesitate for in shooting them both, to save the man's life? Is insuring the downrange didn't have innocents to be hit with a miss or pass through.

reply to post by seabag

The 2nd was written in a different time and place, and not by people who were capable of predicting the future. Any reasonable argument in favour of guns in the hands of members of the public shouldn't need to have an archaic bit of writing to bolster it.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


I know how tempting it might be to want to shoot two low-lifes who were beating up an elderly person, but do you really think that is the appropriate response for ANYONE carrying a gun, even if they were able to beat the # out of the two attackers easily with their bare hands? I wouldn't expect an 8 stone female with no unarmed combat experience to steam in there with fists flying if she was carrying a gun, but I'd have different standards for an unbeaten rising mma star.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

Don't try and make it out like I'm derailing the thread

Then what does the % of gun owners with a CC permit who would use deadly force have to do with an 88 year old vet getting beaten to death by a couple thug wannabees?

I don't think he attacked him anyway, except in self defence, and even then, not very effectively.

So you're saying George tackled Martin and shot him? None of the evidence in the case says as much. In fact, everything points to race having NOTHING at all to do with the whole thing as much as people try and link it to a white on black crime.

Double

Post

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by seabag

 

The 2nd was written in a different time and place, and not by people who were capable of predicting the future. Any reasonable argument in favour of guns in the hands of members of the public shouldn't need to have an archaic bit of writing to bolster it.

I specifically said "as upheld by the SCOTUS". It may have been written long ago but the interpretation by the SCOTUS was not.

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held in a 5-4 decision that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home and within federal enclaves

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior

Then what does the % of gun owners with a CC permit who would use deadly force have to do with an 88 year old vet getting beaten to death by a couple thug wannabees?

I wasn't asking how many would use deadly force, I was asking how many people he thought would be effective at it, and sort of pondering how little help they were to this guy. I'm kinda surprised this WWII vet wasn't carrying a gun himself, considering that guns for self-defence were supposedly de rigeur for the likes of him, ie. the weak and vulnerable, but even if he had, it wouldn't have been much help in a sudden attack. If we are going to improve things, rather than point the finger of blame at a sub-section of society, such matters need to be considered, not just brushed aside in favour of pet beliefs.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
So you're saying George tackled Martin and shot him? None of the evidence in the case says as much. In fact, everything points to race having NOTHING at all to do with the whole thing as much as people try and link it to a white on black crime.

Tried to detain him and then shot him. The most reliable bit of evidence, Zimmerman's nen call, clearly suggests it was George who was closing ground on Trayvon right up until his call ended. Only those with a vested interest in believing differently would think his attitude and motivation changed after he'd ended his phone call. As to whether race was involved, his brother is a racist and his best friend on the estate is one also, so, make your own mind up whether George is just extremely tolerant of his friend and bro's opinions, or whether he might even share them among the right company.

reply to post by Strewth


Good post!

The people that are trying to stir this up are as crazy as Charles Manson.

It's disgusting to witness people spreading race hatred and inciting race hatred.

I love black people, I love white people and everyone in between!

Some of the posts here on ATS are bordering on inciting racial hatred.

reply to post by seabag


"Within the home and federal enclaves"

In 1960, there were about 5,000 enclaves, with about one million people living on them. These numbers would undoubtedly be lower today because many of these areas were military bases that have been closed and transferred out of federal ownership.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Says nothing about carrying them in public places.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
I can bet that most whites feel the same way that we do, and the same as the people on those sites I mentioned; but they don't want to be called a racist.

Other blacks like me do as well, but they fear the 'Uncle Tom' insult.

I have grown a thick skin to the distractions as such, and am not ashamed at my utter disgust at this subculture of blacks...

Who can refute that the black race is rapidly going backwards?

I'm black too. Don't label the whole race because of a subculture. All races have subcultures, don't think It's just black people. Contrary to popular opinión, most black people denounce the stupidity that SOME black people exhibit.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


I don't really need that "Archaic" bit of writing to support my right to bear arms. Though it is a nice thing to have.

I just need common sense, realizing that criminals have guns and other weapons of violence to include the fists and legs and are not afraid to use them.

As a law abiding citizen, I want those criminals to think twice before any assualt upon a innocent. "Is he/she armed?"

It's to bad this man wasn't armed.

The point of this thread is more to show that when the MUCH higher instances of black on white crimes happen , they are glossed over and avoided. We now have 2 big killings that were nothing but a true racial attack committed by black guys, and the story is lightly being put out there, but not even close to the way the Zimmerman case was and still is. But you wait till some rednecks start "retaliating" if any more attacks happen, and that will be plastered across the globe.

I would rather it not be made a big deal on the media of races in crimes, as they are criminals no matter the color of their skin, but I can not stand the double standards that exists today, even the POTUS goes right along with these methods of double standards.

I wish this old timer was armed, but nothing we can do about that now.

reply to post by Wiz4769


This more than anything. The double standard is super wrong. The Zimmerman trial should have gotten the same amount of press as the trials for Chris Lane shooting and the inevitable trials for this murder. Why are white on black crimes so much more important than black on white crimes? Why can't people see that if blacks don't like being discriminated against, what makes them think that whites will tolerate it?

The MSM (NBC MSNBC CBS CNN) won't report on this because Jackson and Sharpton won't say anything. They are Obama lackeys and butt kissers and will only print stuff that fits Obama's narrative of the horrible white people.

As for race relations, I live in Alabama and it seems to me that "in person" relations could not be any better. It is the media stir up that is causing underlying fears of each other.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by Cancerwarrior

 

My mentioning of the Zimmerman case wasn't me bringing it into the topic, it was in response to somebody else's inevitable mention every time a black person commits a horrific crime. Don't try and make it out like I'm derailing the thread, and as to your hypothetical about whether Trayvon would have attacked George if he'd known he was armed, the answer is no, but I don't think he attacked him anyway, except in self defence, and even then, not very effectively.

And what was Trayvon defending himself from? Someone watching him?

Anyways, last I heard, the Spokanne PD has begun a man hunt to catch the bastards who beat the old man. And when I say bastards, I mean that literally, and that's one of the root problems of this subculture/

just as in the 2 bastards that shot the toddler in the face

the 3 bastards that jumped the white teen on the school

and the 3 bastards that murderd an innoncent jogger.

I'll go ahead an say it....liberal policies and single motherhood have created a subculture/society of PSYCHOPATHS, and before someone attempts to ask, "ButterCookie, what are your solutions?", I'll tell you.

We MUST rid the nation of this cancer.

There is no magical 'program' that will cure their psychosis...they don't need love. It's much too late for that.

They need not breed anymore and they need to be isolated from civiized society, so that they do not reproduce any future (pyschopaths).