Why we COULD repel an alien invasion

Originally posted by The GUT
^^^Who said Druscilla doesn't have an imagination? Huh?^^^ Nice, D.

Druscilla has more than an imagination. Iv'e alway thought she knows much more than she is letting on.

I guess so in that opinion considering the unknown amount of variables, especially in war . We'd have home field advantage that for sure. However, we have a hard time getting to the moon

As for how well we could defend our selves, it would have depend on what alien you would be facing wouldn't it?

I think it gives a broader view of what we could compare are our selves too. And sure it unknown possibility, but it an educated guess.

And maybe if we did end up destroying a portion of their force, and send them running. Their would be limited offensive options there that would actually be effective. Let alone the amount resources it would take just to get it out of the atmosphere.

As for assuming I know that they want to invade, is no different then the assumption we could repel. Why didn't you put We could, instead of WHY?

Next thing I know you folks are telling me they after oil next.

reply to post by James1982


No concentrated target like a singular planetary species could ever withstand any concerted effort at invasion.

From an outside perspective, there's only ONE target.
From a planetary perspective, the entire rest of the universe is the range of possible targeting to fight back at.

Aliens would only have one target; Earth.
To defend Earth from any hostile extraterrestrial effort, Earth would need have defensive capability far beyond the capability of a single planet's resources, even had we technologies 100-200 years beyond what we have now.
All Earth's eggs are in one single basket.

Any hostile space faring technological species intent on taking ANY singular planet anywhere in the galaxy has the overwhelming advantage of the gravity well, as well as the strategic position of attacking from any position, even counter planar to the ecliptic at solar planar 'North' or 'South'. Additionally, as stated, the aliens would only have one rather conspicuous and easy to hit target, as well as plenty of native material in-system to use for the fabrication of any and all devices including simple kinetic weapons.

From a species perspective existing on a single planet, were Earth to encounter a hostile extraterrestrial species with designs on forcefully taking this planet for themselves, Earth would be doomed.
The human species would have a better chance if spread out throughout the solar ecliptic, but, even then, a sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial species would need only engineer/program our sun, or even a solar body dozens of light years distant, to pulse a Gamma Ray Burst; effectively killing off all biological life for several, if not hundreds of light years.
After some cleansing GRB action, there's nothing to stop anyone or anything from traipsing in to dance on our cooked and smoking remains.


There's no real defense against a GRB, other than RUNNING well in advance of it ever happening.

reply to post by James1982



Think of the horrific catastrophic weapons we have already developed, and are now just beginning to work with. Laser based weapons platforms(typically for shooting down missiles), Russia and the US are both working on the Rail gun Idea, kinetic energy weapons, shaped charges, Nuclear weapons, all the disgusting array of poisonous gasses, Microwave weapons, sonic weapons. Directed energy weapons, indirect energy weapons.

Now take a race, that figured out even if some what primitively as you suggest to get to earth.

The nearest star system would be hundreds if not thousands of years away with out Light speed travel, let alone FTL travel. Their ship would have to be capable of supporting generations of their species. Producing any and all food, water atmosphere and gravity they need to survive such a journey. It would also need the necessary means to protect itself from potentially hostile threats.

To those Aliens coming to our planet we could be viewed as unwanted pests. When we come across pests we don't like, we decimate them. They would likely gas us, or use some blanket type weapon on us. I doubt they would do any actual fighting against us. IT would be foolish for a limited force to take on our numbers.

They're technology would be the issue for us. They've traversed interstellar space. They can resist EMP, flares, extreme gravitational forces, likely our primitive kinetic weapons(bullets, shells,).

They are likely capable of building robots as well, and would likely use drones just like we would.

The issue with our robots is many of them are just as vulnerable as we are. Fire destroys a lot of them. Radiation destroys them(see fukushima). You can shoot them, blow them up, microwave them, EMP them.

It depends both on their motive and on their technology base.

If motivated by desire for minerals (illogical since the universe isn't short in that area) or out of sheer xenophobia then as noted we are doomed. Potentially without ever seeing the enemy. Any number of remotely deployed means could lay waste to us and we currently have no defence.

If on the other hand they wish to use us in some way, or they are interested in the planet for its bio-diversity then we have some chance, or at least some chance of figuring out whats going to come. Even if we were still powerless in the end. Whatever they did would of necessity have to be more subtle and tailored to the environment.

www.popsci.com...

It a sci-fi weapon that has a real possibility of being real in the next few hundred years. The source of it power is gravity, and it would hit like a nuclear bomb without the radiation. It would be effective for global take over, just hit every city with one or two telephone poll rods, then send in the recovery crew to take whatever resources are there would be for the taking.

Also the biggest factor in such a topic would be "who" were fighting. It could be a race that act like locusts from independence day or they are refugees and just desperate. It just reap and destroy there. Or maybe your fighting a race with a warrior like culture such as a Klingon or a protoss, and they only wage war with those that are on their level. Cause to them our weapons are water guns to a glock.

In the end, the best weapon we would have against them would be psychological really, that is if they get really cocky with their disposition on superiority(and thats if). Then it a knife from the shadows that could cripple them and give a strategic advantage.

Again these are just estimations.

I also realized that I need to spell check before I post.

reply to post by James1982


Well it's obvious if you look at the cues in the movie. The government is a totalitarian government and used a false flag operation to incite a war.

OT: I'm sorry if a race of aliens has the tech to cross the chasm of space from even a star as close as Alpha Centauri (4.36 light years away) they would have the available weaponry to annihilate us rather easily. I mean we can barely get to the moon (some argue we can't even do that) and we can still wipe all life out on this planet.

Battle of the mind would give them an advantage over the weak minded wretched man.
We are not content with our existence, to a point were total dedication to reason warrants
existence. Even if the will to live is universal, we as self-minded self preserving beings,
would and could not fight our own demons so to speak.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by James1982

 

I'm sorry if a race of aliens has the tech to cross the chasm of space from even a star as close as Alpha Centauri (4.36 light years away) they would have the available weaponry to annihilate us rather easily. I mean we can barely get to the moon (some argue we can't even do that) and we can still wipe all life out on this planet

Sorry , but, this kid of thinking is simply uninformed. Y'all have known since the UK dude leaked his Pentagon data about "secret space" fleets, and officers. Y'all, dismissed it out of hand; y'all were wrong.


This is over-simplified, but will serve



If / when ET shows up, he will be in for a fight. But, even if these futuristic machines are not available, the Terrestrial Human Species is a very tenacious creature, he will eventually prevail against ANY odds.

Y'all should also understand, that ALL of the technology to build the machines in the video exists today, and, has existed for at least 10 - 15 years. All of the science is reasonable well understood; so, ET ain't so far ahead afterall.

Travel from Earth to Alpha Centauri Is easy with the new Terrestrial space tech. Shouldn't take much more than a few years (5 - 6).

reply to post by Specimen


I used "why" as in "reasons why we could possibly repel an alien invasion" I didn't think I really needed to flesh the title out that much, figuring people would understand it's basically a list of scenarios in which aliens wouldn't be able to easily overtake us. I also used caps for "could" to emphasize the difference between "could" and "would" since I'm proposing scenarios where a human victory is possible, not making absolute statements such as "we would defeat the aliens" or "the aliens would defeat us"

Originally posted by The GUT
What if Aliens had navels? Would they contemplate them? What if we were, so to speak, no more than the lint in an Alien's navel? Could we still defeat them?

What if there were no more "Allien If" questions ever posted?

Sorry, James. Truly. Just had to get that off my chest. I feel better now.

edit on 22-8-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

If we were mere naval lint I doubt we would even be on their radar. Going smaller than naval lint, maybe we are the bacteria or virus to the aliens. Bacteria and virus are tiny, have zero technology, for all intents and purposes don't even think, yet they are a HUGE threat to humanity with all our tech and knowledge compared to them.

People don't think widely enough when considering alien scenarios, there are infinite situations and circumstances, and in the infinite is our potential salvation.

And if there were no more "what if" alien threads the UFO forum would be a much slower place.

Originally posted by Caver78
Nice premise!
Here's my take on it. If they were all that & a bag of chips we wouldn't have the 3am kidnappings, they seldom have snagged anyone in the middle of the day out of their cubicle, if you get my drift? They only seem to approach humans once they are sleeping. (in general) Plus they block most memories to the point the human has faulty recall for sometimes years.

IF.....if they were so all fired superior and confident I don't think this would be the case. So far assuming abductee reports are accurate they are hesitant to face us head on. To me this indicates a weakness, and something we should look at closely.

Of course I can only go on reported information so this is hypothetical.
On the other hand if they are here just to pillage they wouldn't care much how badly we're jacking the joint up!

edit on 22-8-2013 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)

Good points.

From our human perspective their unwillingness to openly confront would imply a weakness, that they have a great fear of us. There could be other reasons why they use all this cloak and dagger nonsense (assuming for a minute that these abduction tales are true) that aren't related to weakness or fear that we just can't think of. (well, I can think of several, but we don't know what's actually happening)

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by James1982

 

No concentrated target like a singular planetary species could ever withstand any concerted effort at invasion.

From an outside perspective, there's only ONE target.
From a planetary perspective, the entire rest of the universe is the range of possible targeting to fight back at.

Aliens would only have one target; Earth.
To defend Earth from any hostile extraterrestrial effort, Earth would need have defensive capability far beyond the capability of a single planet's resources, even had we technologies 100-200 years beyond what we have now.
All Earth's eggs are in one single basket.

Any hostile space faring technological species intent on taking ANY singular planet anywhere in the galaxy has the overwhelming advantage of the gravity well, as well as the strategic position of attacking from any position, even counter planar to the ecliptic at solar planar 'North' or 'South'. Additionally, as stated, the aliens would only have one rather conspicuous and easy to hit target, as well as plenty of native material in-system to use for the fabrication of any and all devices including simple kinetic weapons.

From a species perspective existing on a single planet, were Earth to encounter a hostile extraterrestrial species with designs on forcefully taking this planet for themselves, Earth would be doomed.
The human species would have a better chance if spread out throughout the solar ecliptic, but, even then, a sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial species would need only engineer/program our sun, or even a solar body dozens of light years distant, to pulse a Gamma Ray Burst; effectively killing off all biological life for several, if not hundreds of light years.
After some cleansing GRB action, there's nothing to stop anyone or anything from traipsing in to dance on our cooked and smoking remains.


There's no real defense against a GRB, other than RUNNING well in advance of it ever happening.

edit on 23-8-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

Your making assumptions again to support a absolute single outcome. Who says the alien's would make a concerted effort to invade Earth? That's the point, you do NOT know (despite cryptic words that imply knowledge to some on here)

You keep saying any alien species, why do you assume any invasion would be taken on behalf of an entire species? I've laid out several scenarios thus far that are possible reasons an attack on Earth wouldn't be made with the full brunt of their technology and military.

You keep saying, for certain, any alien attack on Earth would be impossible to defend against. You are talking in absolutes, and when doing that you need concrete evidence and logic to back it up.

I, on the other hand, am not stating an absolute that we WOULD win. I'm saying we COULD win, due to any number of factors that effect the invaders that we have no idea about. In saying something COULD happen, you only need to back it up with possible situations where that scenario COULD take place.

Once again, both sides make assumptions, the difference is that stating for certain that we would, or would not win requires actual knowledge and evidence of everything involving the attacker, information we do NOT have, so you cannot come to either conclusion.

To prove it's possible for us to win, one needs to only present a single scenario where we could. I've posted several. And I've yet to see anyone challenge the logic of those scenarios, only repeat the same "high tech civs wouldn't have a problem destroying us" over and over again, which as I said makes tons of assumptions that you don't know the accuracy of.

reply to post by James1982


Your post screams desperation. like we are actually under alien attack. and are running through a lot of assumptions of how we can defeat them, knowing deep down we can hear them saying "checkmate"
If any of the witnesses and reports are to be believed of silent craft then they are not depending on finding a planet that has a refuling station. any reports given of so called craft have most always remarked on the speed of those things.... I think its a backward step to assume they are getting to earth in some old crocked out backfiring banger they managed to knock off from some other space travellers..... I am a believer in something from someplace else, if its actually beings of some kind or images projected into our skies or solar system I don't know, obviously if the government have picked up a handful of beings from another world it's anyones guess if there is communication with them. as in having a conversation... they don't need to talk to us to reverse engineer their craft, and did we kill the ones that supposedly survived. it would seem a bit risky to send them back home, but not to drift from your post too much, I don't think we could defeat them if any of the sightings and reports are real.... I don't think they need an army. probably about 5 of them is enough and maybe just one. whatever, I guess I am saying one team so however many that is.......... but just in case you are right, then MAYBE you need to make sure you have lots of ammo for your catapult... got mine ready...

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Caver78
IF.....if they were so all fired superior and confident I don't think this would be the case. So far assuming abductee reports are accurate they are hesitant to face us head on. To me this indicates a weakness, and something we should look at closely.

Okay, I admit it, sheesh! I've hypothesized pretty much that exact thing before. Starred. However, if--and that's just another "if" piled upon a galaxy of "ifs"--abductions are related to the UFO phenomenon, wouldn't that constitute an invasion of sorts? Are we defeating that invasion now?

If it is abductees then it sounds like biological sample collection.

The sample collectors aren't into risking themselves unnecessarily with the native animals. Maybe it's a demotivating minimum wage dangerous job in ET's economy? Maybe they're just peons in a large galactic pharmaceutical corporate empire?

If you had to collect gorilla semen for The Man....and gorillas had guns....you'd act the same way.

Even if their "sneakiness" does suggest a weakness, they still seem sneaky enough to abduct us and get away with it. All they would have to do is keep abducting us one by one and, instead of returning us to our hypothetical beds, just set the anal probe on "Puree."

Right. Obviously if these abductee reports have anything to do with actual ET aliens, then ET is not interested in war with us.

How is that possible when you can't control spiritual essence?

reply to post by flipflop


I don't have any fear or an alien invasion so no desperation here. Honestly the whole idea of aliens invading seems terribly arrogant, as if Earth or humanity are something special in the universe. But if there were an attack, there's plenty of reasonable possibilities that would allow us to win.

If there was desperation, it was me being desperate to stop hearing the same tired lines over and over and over again. Par for the course on ATS I guess. Sorry for trying to bring a different viewpoint to the table.

Originally posted by James1982
reply to post by flipflop

 

I don't have any fear or an alien invasion so no desperation here. Honestly the whole idea of aliens invading seems terribly arrogant, as if Earth or humanity are something special in the universe. But if there were an attack, there's plenty of reasonable possibilities that would allow us to win.

If there was desperation, it was me being desperate to stop hearing the same tired lines over and over and over again. Par for the course on ATS I guess. Sorry for trying to bring a different viewpoint to the table.

Gets a bit redundant don't it?

reply to post by James1982


James1982, the title of your very own OP is Why we COULD repel an alien invasion.
To me the operative word in that title is INVASION.

Invasion does not require any other living thing to be left standing. Invasion only requires the invader to eventually establish a foothold, regardless of whether there's anything living left on the ground or not to pose any sort of resistance.

Thus, I take the stance of an alien species, group of species, machines, or any extraterrestrial agency intent on INVASION.
The OP is about repelling an invasion, right?

I disagree that there's any chance for a single point at the bottom of a gravity well to have any success at "winning" any invasion scenario.
A single target at the bottom of a gravity well is at an extreme handicap even were it fighting against an equivalent technology enemy (Invading ET). The higher "ground" wins.

As stated before, if ET were capable enough, all they'd need do is engineer a GRB somewhere in the local Galactic and thus kill ALL life over the span of several, if not hundreds, or even thousands of light years.
GRB would be quite an effective weapon in getting rid of any pests on any enviable real estate.

Even if aliens only had technologies similar our Earthly Middle Ages, but in space, if they could JUST land on our moon, then proceed to lob an unceasing monsoon rain of moon rocks at us with primitive catapults, and smash our little blue Camelot to smoking ruins.

We're an EASY target at the bottom of a gravity well.
We lose, even against primitive style cartoon space knights with space catapults on the moon.

reply to post by Druscilla


You got me there, invasion would imply a large scale massive assault of some kind.

I just meant an attack of some sort. Basically a situation where we battle aliens.

It's more of a thought exercise than anything else, people poo-poo the idea of battling aliens as if every possibly situation where we would have to fight them would include their entire specie's technology and resources.