Were These Really Used To Take Over 4 Plane's ?

a reply to: Bilk22

I'm just saying it's plausible.

But no swinging a purse or some luggage, or spilling boiling coffee at them will not likely dissuade a psychopath swinging a knife. Basic rule is if the guy is with in arms reach and he has a blade, whether you're armed or not yourself, you're screwed. Don't underestimate a blade. The fear of a blade is real and I don't fault people for not rising up to the challenge of fighting to disarm a guy holding a blade.

a reply to: Zaphod58

So once it was clear to everyone onboard that the hijackers were willing to kill, there were no passengers that would have taken things into their own hands. That's what you're claiming. You're also claiming that a flight attendant did see at least one coworker killed and she would then try to dissuade passengers from confronting the hijackers? This happened on four flights and they all went down the same way? Box cutters? What a shameful story to defend.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Bilk22

I'm just saying it's plausible.

But no swinging a purse or some luggage, or spilling boiling coffee at them will not likely dissuade a psychopath swinging a knife. Basic rule is if the guy is with in arms reach and he has a blade, whether you're armed or not yourself, you're screwed. Don't underestimate a blade. The fear of a blade is real and I don't fault people for not rising up to the challenge of fighting to disarm a guy holding a blade.

Disarming someone with a blade used for slashing vs thrusting, in the tight quarters of a plane would be a very simple prospect. The blade is no longer than the reach of the perp. It cannot do much if any damage used as a thrusting weapon. The whole story is shameful.

a reply to: Bilk22

It's far from the first time hijackers proved they were willing to kill, and no one did anything.

Hijackers executed a US Navy diver on board. Some hostages were held for weeks before being released.

TWA 847

Multiple hostages were executed before the aircraft was stormed.

EgyptAir 648

Hijacking events since 1970, almost all of which had fatalities.

US hijackings since 1970

What makes these so special that people would have fought? Because you say so?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Bilk22

It's far from the first time hijackers proved they were willing to kill, and no one did anything.

Hijackers executed a US Navy diver on board. Some hostages were held for weeks before being released.

TWA 847

Multiple hostages were executed before the aircraft was stormed.

EgyptAir 648

Hijacking events since 1970, almost all of which had fatalities.

US hijackings since 1970

What makes these so special that people would have fought? Because you say so?

Keep promoting the story. Hope it makes you feel good. Box cutters

originally posted by: samkent
You are thinking with a 2013 brain.
Not a 2001 mindset.

Before 2001 hijackings were about money or prisioner release.
Not using the plane as a cruise missile.

If each of those planes passengers knew they were to sacrificed, none of the planes would have made it to their targets.

Even today if someone held a boxcutter to your mothers throat you would hand over your wallet.
Even today carjackings happen with simple knives or less.
Even today banks are robbed with knives or simple threats.

What's off is your assumptions.

In 2001 I thought in hijackings they gave in to the demands because thy almost always ended peacefully.

originally posted by: LOSTinAMERICA

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
So the other day at work I was looking at a "box cutter", it is the smallest knife with very little blade.
Something seems off that 4 planes were hijacked and taken over with this tiny cutting tool.

"Box Cutter"

I think it was remote control that took over. It all speculation on my part and I'll never believe the official story. Too many inconsistencies. When Larry said pull building seven, I was like, how can they setup the demolition that fast? How does the two main towers fall upon their own footprint? Why wasn't NORAD taking care of business? Why was the debris shipped off secretly? How did they find the passports intact? Inquiring minds want to know.

Box cutters my ass.

Larry said "pull" as in "pull" the emergency personnel from the building and stop fighting the fire IMO. he was talking about all the people who died, so they just pulled the firefighters off building 7.

a reply to: Bilk22

Correction disarming anybody with a blade is never a simple prospect in close quarters.

A box cutter may not be the best choice as a thrusting weapon but it will do. Like I posted earlier in this thread all one has to do it dig the box cutter in 2 inches (granted it's the kind with a blade strip) and the persons a goner.

As far as slashing versus thrusting for the disarm. Both are difficult. Thrusts are much easier to parry than slashes. A guy at close quarters with a blade is a worst case scenario.

But even slashing a box cutter is pretty nasty. In the Filipino arts there is a basic entry called a Split Entry/Gunting. Hold a box cutter in your right hand. Anytime someone reaches out with their right arm. Parry with your left and slash the inside of their bicep (the soft veiny vulnerable part) with box cutter. it's fast and it works nearly every time. Now that person has lost the use of that arm. has nerve damage and may be slashed bad enough to exsanguinate terminally. Now you are safely on the outside of their shoulder and they can't counter. You're up on them and if they try to fight back they will just turn into the knife and get stabbed or slashed worse. DO that to anybody who gets close enough to try and disarm you. Wanna make a bet nobody is going to challenge you after that moment and that you will have control of the population stuck in the cabin with you. A lunatic slashing with a blade is very dangerous.

a reply to: Bilk22

It has nothing to do with box cutters. It has to do with the mentality of hijackings. It wouldn't matter what they used the result would have been the same.

used in ww2

The German Kriegsmarine operated FL-Boote (ferngelenkte Sprengboote) which were radio controlled motor boats filled with explosives to attack enemy shipping from 1944.
Both the British and US also developed radio control systems for similar tasks, in order to avoid the huge anti-aircraft batteries set up around German targets. However, none of these systems proved usable in practice, and the one major US effort, Operation Aphrodite, proved to be far more dangerous to its users than to the target.

aphrodite

Aphrodite and Anvil were the World War II code names of United States Army Air Forces and United States Navy operations to use B-17 and PB4Y bombers as precision-guided munitions against bunkers and other hardened/reinforced enemy facilities such as those targeted during Operation Crossbow.[2]
The plan called for B-17 aircraft which had been taken out of operational service – various nicknames existed such as "robot", "baby", "drone" or "weary Willy"[3] – to be loaded to capacity with explosives, and flown by radio control into bomb-resistant fortifications such as German U-boat pens and V-weapon sites. It was hoped that this would match the British success with Tallboy and Grand Slam ground penetration bombs but the project was dangerous, expensive and unsuccessful.

Then man landed on the moon.

a reply to: loveguy

They also required extensive modification. As would a 767 or 757.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Bilk22

Correction disarming anybody with a blade is never a simple prospect in close quarters.

A box cutter may not be the best choice as a thrusting weapon but it will do. Like I posted earlier in this thread all one has to do it dig the box cutter in 2 inches (granted it's the kind with a blade strip) and the persons a goner.

As far as slashing versus thrusting for the disarm. Both are difficult. Thrusts are much easier to parry than slashes. A guy at close quarters with a blade is a worst case scenario.

But even slashing a box cutter is pretty nasty. In the Filipino arts there is a basic entry called a Split Entry/Gunting. Hold a box cutter in your right hand. Anytime someone reaches out with their right arm. Parry with your left and slash the inside of their bicep (the soft veiny vulnerable part) with box cutter. it's fast and it works nearly every time. Now that person has lost the use of that arm. has nerve damage and may be slashed bad enough to exsanguinate terminally. Now you are safely on the outside of their shoulder and they can't counter. You're up on them and if they try to fight back they will just turn into the knife and get stabbed or slashed worse. DO that to anybody who gets close enough to try and disarm you. Wanna make a bet nobody is going to challenge you after that moment and that you will have control of the population stuck in the cabin with you. A lunatic slashing with a blade is very dangerous.

So now these guys were expert in Filipino arts?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: loveguy

They also required extensive modification. As would a 767 or 757.

desperate times...desperate measures.

Tell the guy with an IQ of 80 that he's doing the right thing...

a reply to: loveguy

So they put the passengers and crew on a heavily modified aircraft, and none of the pilots or ground crew noticed?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: loveguy

So they put the passengers and crew on a heavily modified aircraft, and none of the pilots or ground crew noticed?

IQ of 80...
the poor idiot willing to control the remote; nobody has to be on board?

Any living souls that died in a plane crash died where the war exercises took place off shore?

Lets review flight 93? And the guy that flew into the mountainside recently killing all on board...

One photo reveals a wide spread debris field while the other is simply a large mysterious hole in the ground.

sorry about the diversion OP.

a reply to: loveguy

So they added even more complexity by swapping planes. And despite the flights being tracked for pretty much the entire time, none of the controllers noticed. And how did they get them out to sea?

Once again, apples and oranges. Germanwings hit the side of a mountain and exploded. Flight 93 hit a reclaimed mine that was filled in with fairly loosely packed dirt.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: loveguy

So they added even more complexity by swapping planes. And despite the flights being tracked for pretty much the entire time, none of the controllers noticed. And how did they get them out to sea?

Once again, apples and oranges. Germanwings hit the side of a mountain and exploded. Flight 93 hit a reclaimed mine that was filled in with fairly loosely packed dirt.

You can rely on anyone's word you want.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: loveguy

So they put the passengers and crew on a heavily modified aircraft, and none of the pilots or ground crew noticed?

No.
The planes were swapped.
I don`t know what happened to the passengers and crew of all flights but i think they were taken from the planes, being told it was a drill.
After using some of these people to make phone calls...( this was vital for pointing the finger ) ...they were then murdered.
Meanwhile the heavily modified aircraft were flown by remote to their targets.

No hijackers.....no box cutters....in my opinion.
Whats the opinions of all the people you know in the airline business ?
Are they actually agreeing with your thoughts on the flight attendants doing nothing ?

a reply to: lambros56

So how did they pull the switch off? They would have had to have some way to get the aircraft on the ground, and somewhere it wouldn't be suspicious to hide the duplicates.


Yes. The ones that I was working with at the time didn't see anything odd about how the crew reacted. We talked about it a few times and they all said they did right by not fighting back, based on the information they had at the time.

a reply to: dfens

I will star you just for your avatar...Bubbles.

The TPB are great. ( and for those who don't know TPB stands for Trailer Park Boys not Powers That Be)