Were These Really Used To Take Over 4 Plane's ?

a reply to: andy06shake

Tell you this, and im nothing special, but should i find myself mid-flight with an idiot or even a group of idiots that decided to attempt to hijack the airplane with these things i would take off my belt and have at the fools rather go into the ground like a lawn dart. My moneys on me!

I'm sorry but that's easy to say now a)not being confronted with the weapon and 4 or 5 terrorists in a confined space and b)having the hindsight of knowing it was a do or die scenario. Generally you would expect a hijacker to have demands and want to get back on the ground alive at some point. If I were in that situation I'd be lying low and hope to not be noticed and wait for the situation to resolve itself.

a reply to: TheBolt

Don't be sorry, different people react differently to different situations. That's just our fight or flight reaction kicking in. However having been both stabbed and slashed I personally know that I would choose to fight and have a chance of success rather than be compliant and die In a fireball. Simply because I fear burning over stab wounds. As to terrorist demands, well at 30 thousand feet any demands they may have can have rather severe implications. Situations seldom resolve themselves, especially so with regards to terrorist acts thesedays.

As to terrorist demands, well at 30 thousand feet any demands they may have can have rather severe implications.

This is true. I've thought about it that way too. I mean even if they have demands...what if they aren't met?
I've also never been stabbed or slashed so I would have a fear of not just being knifed but the fear of the unknown. I suppose I've never been in a plane crash either, but I'd be playing the odds of what the most likely scenario would be.

a reply to: TheBolt

Any kind of scenario that involves a hostile terrorist or terrorist force gaining access to the cockpit and/or pilots is seldom going to end well.

Once they gain control of the aircraft that's pretty much the situation escalating way beyond control. Think of it this way if someone steps up and confronts the fools with an equal measure mayhem before they manage to get that far others will automatically follow suit, that's just human nature 101. And unless the rest of the passengers are also terrorists, which would kind of defeat the point of the terrorist act or exercise, there are far more of them than there are terrorists.

a reply to: andy06shake

And prior to 9/11, very few hijackings ended badly. Yes, a lot of them involved losing at least one hostage, but the majority of the hostages wound up going home to their family at the end of it. That day was the first time aircraft were hijacked and used as weapons.

a reply to: Zaphod58

"That day was the first time aircraft were hijacked and used as weapons."

Personally, given the amount of time commercial aviation has been available to our masses, i find it rather strange that it took nearly 50 or so years for someone to come up with and implement the idea of using our aircraft against us as a tactical missile.

a reply to: andy06shake

Because in the early days of aviation they tended to use bombs and blow the plane up, in many cases for insurance purposes. Then after they started hijacking them, they found that in most cases they could get what they wanted once they were on the ground.

I've been using box cutters for over 25 years in my supermarket job. They can cut very deeply, especially if you apply a bit of force. I've seen some horrible injuries from them over the years - they could easily cut a carotid artery, etc. I seem to remember the 9/11 terrorists had also ground down the end a little so the blade protruded a bit more. They are a very dangerous weapon, especially with a fresh blade inserted!

a reply to: NeuronDivide



Carotid artery injury's aside somehow i imagine the above situation apply's to any fool stupid enough to take on a plane full of passengers with a box cutter. Replace "Thats not a knife, this is a knife" with "Thats not a knife, but this is my fist, and these other people are my friends" and then see who prevails.

a reply to: andy06shake

Carotid artery injury's aside somehow i imagine the above situation apply's to any fool stupid enough to take on a plane full of passengers with a box cutter. Replace "Thats not a knife, this is a knife" with "Thats not a knife, but this is my fist, and these other people are my friends" and then see who prevails.

Big talk for someone sitting in a warm house on the ground.
If the hijacker had the box cutter to the throat of your sister you would act differently.

a reply to: samkent

They would need to get said blade there first. And it's not big talk, if you don't react everyone including your sister is most lightly in a hell of a lot worse situation. Your not retracting to prove yourself, your reacting to survive.

Your alternative is to simply sit there and comply allowing the situation to develop, possibly missing any window you may have to disarm the fool and wondering how you managed to get into the situation in the first place. I know what way i would jump!

And I'm not sitting in a house, I'm sitting outside in the sunshine.

While I agree with you that action is better than no action, the fact of the matter is that humans, when together in groups, exhibit the herd mentality. If the authorities are not doing anything (the flight attendants) then the people generally wont either. Maybe now during a hijacking people will react different knowing what they know about modern hijackings but back then they didn't. Even now people will generally just sit there waiting to meet their doom. It's just human psychology.

As for which hurts more. The consensus from most knife experts is slashing hurts much more than stabbing. Stabbing is of course more effective and individual experiences vary, but due to anatomy slashing is more painful. Hell I've never been slashed. Did take some minor stabs (no more than 3/4 an inch deep) on my forearms on the inside where they stick the IV by the elbow in a altercation. Nothing major, but I didn't even know I was being cut/stabbed until 15 minutes after the fact and someone told me I was bleeding, bleeding a lot. My arm was black for a month. I just thought I was getting punched. Most people that survive a knife stabbing said they initially thought they had just been punched hard and had no idea until they woke up in the hospital that they had been stabbed. Either way its a crappy thing for anyone to experience, most people will do all they can to not experience it, myself included. Most of those people if told to sit down and shut the F up by the person holding the blade will do exactly that.

Can't fault people for not underestimating a blade and being submissive even until their end to avoid being cut.

And lets get real here, simple knife assault looks like this. This could have easily been done with a box cutter. You blaming people for not wanting any of this? I don't. I wouldn't want that either.

www.chemicalbiological.net...

a reply to: NeuronDivide

Especially when you aren't expecting anything, and it come upon you from behind.

I've also seen some horrific cuts, suffered one or two myself, from them. Blood everywhere.

Well you can certainly see who is here to defend the OS. That's for sure.

Two box cutting hijackers are being defended. What a sad commentary.

Someone already pointed out the idea - how do we know they used box cutters? Is there any film? Is there any first hand report to confirm this?

Defeating a box cutter wielding idiot would only take the use of a carry-on bag to deflect any attempt at slashing. The whole premise of the box cutter is idiotic. Anyone that defends it ......................!

a reply to: Bilk22

And you can tell who has no idea what they're talking about.

The flight crew would have actively discouraged fighting back by the passengers, unlike now. There were hijackings where they took an active role in stopping people fighting back by getting in their way, or delaying them, because that was the protocol.

And yes, there were reports from at least one flight that they were using box cutters and blades.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Bilk22

And you can tell who has no idea what they're talking about.

The flight crew would have actively discouraged fighting back by the passengers, unlike now. There were hijackings where they took an active role in stopping people fighting back by getting in their way, or delaying them, because that was the protocol.

Your post is laughable. People ignore the requests/demands of flight attendants all the time. Got proof of the box cutters? Then you can claim you know what you're talking about.

a reply to: Bilk22

Nobodies defending the terrorists or their actions. People are just saying that a box cutter, any blade is a significant weapon, is capable of holding a plane up, and nobody is to be blamed for not trying to disarm the guys with the blades. That's all.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
So the other day at work I was looking at a "box cutter", it is the smallest knife with very little blade.
Something seems off that 4 planes were hijacked and taken over with this tiny cutting tool.

"Box Cutter"

I think it was remote control that took over. It all speculation on my part and I'll never believe the official story. Too many inconsistencies. When Larry said pull building seven, I was like, how can they setup the demolition that fast? How does the two main towers fall upon their own footprint? Why wasn't NORAD taking care of business? Why was the debris shipped off secretly? How did they find the passports intact? Inquiring minds want to know.

Box cutters my ass.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Bilk22

Nobodies defending the terrorists or their actions. People are just saying that a box cutter, any blade is a significant weapon, is capable of holding a plane up, and nobody is to be blamed for not trying to disarm the guys with the blades. That's all.

There were lots of "significant weapons" onboard those planes that could easily have overcome a box cutter. The whole story is shameful and idiotic. There were stainless steel utensils in the galley. There were boiling hot pots of coffee and water in the galley. There were fire extinguishers. The idea that this went unchallenged on four flights is not believable. Oh yeah they fought back over PA.

a reply to: Bilk22

And they would place themselves between the passengers and hijackers.

As for box cutters and knives, Flight 11 reported that people had been stabbed when the flight was taken. At least one of the Flight 93 calls reported a cardboard cutter type weapon. There were multiple reports of people being stabbed or having their throats cut when the hijackers took the planes.

Sweeney called flight services manager Michael Woodward and said she saw only four of the five hijackers believed to be aboard. She described them as Middle Eastern and said they had stabbed two flight attendants.

"A hijacker cut the throat of a business-class passenger, and he appears to be dead," she added. The hijackers stormed the front of the plane and "had just gained access to the cockpit."

As for knowing what I'm talking about with the crew giving in:

"The traditional method of dealing with the traditional model of a hijacking was to accommodate, negotiate, and do not escalate," said John Mazor, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, the world's largest pilot union. Since most hijackers just wanted to go some place or achieve some political aim, crews were taught to give them what they wanted.

www.boston.com...