Were These Really Used To Take Over 4 Plane's ?

Ok you guys, take one of those plastic utility cutters and drop it from 16 feet, onto concrete, like I have many times, only to see them break apart.
You clearly don't know what you are talking about, I have worked with these knives my entire career, have you ?
I have broken more and seen more break apart from drops, they are not robust knives.
Yet somehow you think they survived an epic explosion and a massive drop with no damage ?

Oh and top of that the black box doesn't survive but a plastic knife does, with no visible damage, REALLY ?

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Take a bottle of Jim Beam and drop it from 5 feet, it will shatter. I've already made that point previously.

I have thrown objects similar in size and shape to that box cutter long distances, they did not break. Determining is something is going to break on impact depends on a lot of things: speed, force, angle of impact, source of impact, ect. I have dropped a ceramic plate before, it did not shatter, on another occasion, it did. Was the government behind either incident?

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
You clearly don't know what you are talking about, I have worked with these knives my entire career, have you ?

I cant speak for the others but I moved past having boxcutter as a requirement in my job description literally decades ago.

If you want to claim some sort of expert knowledge of box cutting devices be my guest but it does nothing to bolster your argument.

Construct your argument from quantifiable data such as the tensile strength of the material used measured against the mass of the boxcutter multiplied by the velocity you expect the boxcutter to be travelling at when it impacts the ground.

Don't forget to factor such things as terminal velocity from atmospheric resistance.

Failing that, google Argument from (personal) incredulity.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


reply to post by Blue_Jay33


When the planes hit the buildings everything inside them was still moving at the speed of the plane. The outer fuselage came apart on impact, and the force of impact would have killed everyone on board, but smaller lighter objects may very well have been ejected from the impact zone some considerable distance.

Their condition on hitting the ground depends on a number of things, including prevailing wind, whether or not their fall had been broken on the way down and the surface type they landed on.

And sometimes, weird stuff just happens. Heres a story of a woman who survived a 33,000ft fall without a parachute

I need to step away from this thread now, as my chances of typing a banable offence are really increasing based on the last three posts, especially since one is a MOD. I will agree to disagree at this point.

To anyone who feels that crashes are neat and orderly I suggest you stop by any police station.
Ask them what almost always happens in every high speed motorcycle crash.

Their shoes fly off.
It doesn't matter if they are shoes or boots or tied or buckled they fly off.

Weird things happens in a crash.

Another example the Columbia shuttle crash.
Video tape survived.
A fireball breakup but plastic and mylar survived.

If anyone appreciates how dangerous these 'box cutters' are it'd be me.

I merely slipped when using one to cut thin plastic drain pipe and almost removed a finger. That's no exaggeration as it happened to pass through a joint cutting everything (tendons & blood vessels) leaving the finger dangling by what flesh was left. Needed immediate microsurgery to save it (the finger) and years of recovery but fortunately I still have it even though it'll never be as good as it was.

And that was just one accidental swipe of such a blade that was about half the size of the hijackers' knives. In practiced hands they're a deadly weapon, have no doubt.

reply to post by Pilgrum

i bet the family hide all the sharp things when you are coming over
jk

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
I need to step away from this thread now, as my chances of typing a banable offence are really increasing based on the last three posts, especially since one is a MOD. I will agree to disagree at this point.

I'm with you amigo. I honestly can not fathom the gullibility of the defenders of the official BS.
I think 9/11 will go down in history as " The Day of Eternal Coincidence " One of the greatest mysteries of the universe LOL . And NO ! I will not debate or argue this scenario with ANYONE !

I can tell just from reading the first page that for once on a 9/11 thread everything that needs to be said has been said.

if we think about 9/11 with a 2013 perspective then how anyone could have done what they done with small knifes defies belief

but if we remember that this attack happened in 2001 where before then no plane had been hijacked in American air space and the assumption was always if i plane was to be ever take it would be for either hostages or ransom of some kind, not to turn the plane into a missile. In addition to this security on domestic flights was much more relaxed compared to what it is today.

There really is very little more to say than that because it was the 2001 aviation security mindset that meant they could get on a plane and take it with seemingly little effort by today's standards

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin



No plane had been hijacked in the US since about 1972, when screening laws were put into place.

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer
It's too bad there were no 9/11 truthers on board those planes. I'm sure you guys would have just kicked those terrorists up and down the center aisle before securing them with duct tape.

Finally somebody who understands that a plane full of people should not have been taken over by several folks with box cutters. It would never happen again. Not that I believe it happened the first time. There is no way a few people with box cutters could outfight a plane full of passengers.

reply to post by groingrinder


You never worked with, our anywhere near an airline did you? They didn't have to "out fight" anyone. Prior to that day, flight crews were trained to submit, keep the passengers calm, and get the plane on the ground. At that point either negotiations or someone storming the plane, it would end, hopefully with a minimum of casualties. Prior to then if a hijacked plane crashed (with one exception I know of off the top of my had, that wasn't technically a hijacking) it was because the hijackers were stupid ( the Ethiopian 767 that ran out of fuel because they hijacked a short haul and wanted to go to Australia is a prime example). I don't know of any off the to of my head that were deliberately crashed, except the one exception I mentioned. That was a case of revenge after he got fired, when a former boss was on the flight. He walked into the cockpit and executed the pilots. No demands, or anything, just shot them both dead, so technically not a hijacking.

All the crews on that would have been surprised, and scared, but would have gone with their training. The passengers would have listened because every other time on the news, the plane landed somewhere. We know better now, and the new mindset is to fight. The mindset at the time was to submit.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Have you ever been cut by one? Even by accident? I have. Blood everywhere. Very deep cuts, too, if you do it just right.

Now envision one being wielded by a sociopath bound and determined to kill, or at the very least, hurt you... Not to mention catching you by surprise?

Yes, it could be done.

At first glance? Seems unlikely, doesn't it? That's a razor blade in that thing. Sharp. Used by someone who doesn't intend to survive the day...

Yes, it could be done.

The hijackers had the boxcutters .... but they also said they had bombs and that if the passengers cooperated then they wouldn't set the bombs off. That's what passengers said in their cell phone calls home before they were killed.

So it was more than just boxcutters .. it was the threat of the bombs ...

They should start calling "9/11 truthers", "9/11-grasping at strawers"

The amount of sheer ignorance in this thread is staggering.

Weird things happen in a crashes, if you drop something from a height of 100 feet or 10.. and the only things you have to factor in are the height from which you dropped it and the mass of the object, it is pretty damn clear on what will happen 9/10 times.

If you cannot understand WHY this one thing happened to survive given all of the other factors in a plane hitting a building. Then you should stop posting.


I will also comment on the validity of the "fear factor" of having a knife capable of cutting through carpet, drywall and various other objects that are a lot thicker than human skin.

You are flying a plane, sitting in a 4 point harness in a compact area, someone comes from behind with a box cutter on your jugular. ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN WOULD FREEZE. Do you even know how long it takes to bleed out if that artery is cut? Not very long. Ohh and also, the people threatening you have said there is a bomb on board.. yea lets call their bluff @10+thousand feet in the air with 150+ innocent passengers.

You 9/11 grasping at strawers are really dense sometimes..

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Komodo

 

And how exactly are they going to be a "one man army" strapped into that seat with a four point harness, and having that little bit of room to get out of the seat, unless they motor it (slowly) back all the way?

Look bro.. I'm no expert ..never claimed to be and you seem to be a pilot and i respect that.. and I'm not here to hash out the details of what's been gone over here on ATS a million times before.. because I was DONE WAY back in 20009 shortly have I joined ..

The post I replied to was to provide a little insight to what I know about vets that know hand to hand combat .. and know it personally because I raised by one, and that SHOULD the captain be a former fighter pilot, and got out of his seat to commence a serious beat down of said hijacker within seconds of the plane being hi-jacked... it would be a GAME changer for sure IMO.. due to the 'weapon' involved .. and it not being a bomb (totally different senerio)

So now..perhaps you can answer some questions that have been floating around this site which keep cropping up..

can captains put a jet on auto pilot and let the co-pilot take over .. ?

Is is even possible that the captain can get out his seat for a 30s beat down and climb back in his seat it ??

Are former jet fighter pilots trained in hand to hand combat and if so, are they hired on as commercial pilots ?

Does the pilot cabin door remain locked from the inside all the time while a hijack is involved .. ?

Does/Can a commercial pilot carry a weapon of some sort?

reply to post by Komodo


Either pilot can put the plane on auto pilot. It's just a series of switches, usually on the overhead panel.

Many former military pilots become commercial pilots after their military career ends. Quite a few trained to some degree of hand to hand. The problem comes with getting up. You generally have to motor the seat back to get enough room to get your legs clear of the control yoke, and that takes five or ten seconds.

Pre-9/11, the cockpit doors were locked, but were flimsy enough you could kick through them with a few good kicks. It was a safety feature to allow fire fighters to get to the crew in case of a fire (or the crew to kick their way out).

Some pilots now are armed, but prior to that day, the idea was to submit and get on the ground where negotiations could take place.

reply to post by seagull


Yes I have been cut by them many times, I am not saying a utility knife couldn't be a deadly weapon.
In fact if you were to pair these two together you would have a very deadly weapon.
But this wasn't what was used.

25mm Olfa blade

Large Olfa Knife

Originally posted by GR1ill3d

The amount of sheer ignorance in this thread is staggering.

I agree!

Originally posted by GR1ill3d

You are flying a plane, sitting in a 4 point harness... blah blah blather...

Anyone who thinks that pilots sit strapped in with the two shoulder harnesses on the entire flight is mistaken.

Originally posted by GR1ill3d

You 9/11 grasping at strawers are really dense sometimes..

Thank you.

And people who are saying that pilots are going to sit there not once mind you, but four times and not try to defend themselves must never have heard about

Federal Express Flight 705

which happened in 1994.

Federal Express Flight 705 Cockpit Voice Recorder Transcript

Sanders, Tucker and Peterson had survived a suicidal act of piracy, but at a terrible cost. Sanders suffered multiple lacerations to his head, had been stabbed in his right arm and had a dislocated jaw. His right ear had been almost completely severed. Jim Tucker’s skull was severely fractured. The right-sided paralysis would pass, but he would experience ongoing motor-function impairments to his right arm and leg. He was also blinded in one eye. Andy Peterson also suffered a skull fracture, as well as a severed temporal artery. None would ever fly again.......