Salvation comes from within, NOT without

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by joeyv23

 

Salvation comes from within? I'm responsible for my condition in needing salvation. A sinner looking internally for a remedy for their own sin is like an alcoholic drinking to get sober.

What is a sinner? What makes a sin? Each of us comes from the same divine blueprint and we do indeed have it in us so 'save' ourselves, but I don't think it's sin we need saving from. It's darkness, which is ignorance of spiritual truth. We all have it in us to make the decision to learn about Spirit, Universal morals, and become enlightened. Enlightenment, to me in its most simple form, means ridding oneself of the darkness which is spiritual ignorance. That's not to say this experience is punishment. I see sinners as being deep in the matrix of the lower frequency vibrations/dimension. Are they wrong for where they are on their individual path? Certainly not!

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by joeyv23

 

Yeah many people believe that. That you are your savior, or you can save yourself, or God is within and other variants. That's fine if you believe that. I'm not going to get into a you're wrong or right argument about it.

However, my religion, Christianity teaches you can't save yourself. For example one passage from the Bible says, "do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black." And like I said, I'm not saying you're wrong.

While that passage is out of context. But it always made me think. I can't even change the color of a single hair on my head, but I would have the audacity to think I was in control of anything? That I could beat death? That I could beat the grave?

But what I could never relate to is why one would want to save themselves and fall into a religion of works and rituals trying to appease a God, or trying to save themselves, when I think Jesus is so much cooler.

Instead of me trying to appease him, he loved me so much he died to save me, before I even knew him. Just seems like a cooler story.

Instead of me doing some weird chants or whatever trying to get some far away distant God to notice me, or doing some weird rituals trying to save myself.

Jesus does it backwards. He loved us so much he did all the work to get us to notice him and to come back to him like a father. And all we have to do is say, okay, save me, and I'm saved.

That's the story in Christianity that I always related to. That humans have strayed away from their father, but he came back to get us. Not the other way around like many religions where God is far away and we're trying to get him to come back to us.

Don't take me the wrong way here, I say this with a smile.. you say you can't change the color of a single strand of hair... what about hair dye?

I definitely see us as co creators of our existence.

My issue with organized religion is the fact that it is (and I'm beating the dead horse here) they are a group of people's interpretation of a much higher understanding. That there were books taken out of the Bible by Constantine made me question at an early age the validity of what I was reading. I've since read into the gnostic teachings of the Nag Hammadi scrolls, as well as spent a great deal of time learning about any and every religion I could. At first I used the wiki machine, looked up an interesting topic, and then followed hyperlink after hyperlink trying to learn more about where the ideas and words came from. The rabbit hole deep is an understatement.

You mentioned chants. Isn't it a large part of Christianity to sing hymns? Chanting is simply tuning the different glands in the body using sound, because while we are particle... matter... we are also wave..energy.. This is mainstream scientific understanding matching up with esoteric ideas from many religions/paths.

I don't chant because it doesn't work for me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. But I will say that "God" is never distant or far away. It "God" is everything, including my consciousness, and therefore I'm part of the whole unit that is "God"

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by Rex282

 

I think you misunderstand me again. Like I tried to explain in my first post, I don't wish to argue with others about what they believe or tell anyone they're wrong. I only wish to clarify my post and what I believe and why it makes more sense to me in contrast to what OP believes. So, I only try to explain my belief. I'm not trying to explain why mine is right. OP might be right, but I'm only explaining why his view doesn't speak to me.

If you believe something else that's fine, but I don't wish to get into arguments about who's right and who's wrong. Just why what I believe makes more sense to me.

edit on 22-8-2013 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

This is the only attitude that's going to get us anywhere when talking about such hot button issues like spirituality and religion. Thank you

I understand what you are saying very very well ...it ain't rocket surgery.I am not arguing either.What you believe doesn't matter to me at all.I am not trying to explain what speaks to me at all either.I could care less what I "feel". I only care about the Truth not what I "believe" makes sense.I've believed many things that weren't the Truth and it never made them any less false.

edit on 22-8-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

To quote Charlie Chapman's speech from "The Great Dictator"
"We think too much, and feel too little"

I don't mean this as attack towards you, it's just what came to mind when I read your post

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Dianec

 

I think your example is extremely immoral. What kind of person allows their friend to take the blame for a crime that they themselves committed.

It was an analogy. It's a comparison in modern day terms of what Jesus did for us.

reply to post by joeyv23


Appreciate your sharing more of your beliefs in there. If Jesus (Immanual) did not die on the cross and rise from the dead this takes away the entire premise of Christianity it would seem. I am interested in your knowledge simply because I too believe something about Judas and Mary M has been off. I know there was a book from both found (in the Dead Sea scrolls?). Not sure on that but why haven't these been taken more seriously (as in altering wide spread belief systems). And if Jesus was betrayed by Judas would He approve of us casting stones when the point of His existence was love and forgiveness? I'm always willing to hear more about Jesus. I may not agree (it will resonate or it won't) but I personally won't take offense or judge.

With living another 100 years elsewhere - already thinking no on that (without hearing what you have to say). I say this because even Native American accounts place a man of who may have been Jesus appearing after the resurrection (who appeared and then disappeared). There were also guards by the tomb who would have taken their job quite seriously given the severity of allowing a theft of the body. I'm thinking even those in power knew a miricle had happened since the guards were not killed.

I believe we have a responsibility to use what's been given to us (the story/knowledge and ability to have relationship) to be freed from our shortcomings. If someone is truly invested in the relationship it can free them. If its just words it isn't enough.

Originally posted by Dianec

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Dianec

 

I think your example is extremely immoral. What kind of person allows their friend to take the blame for a crime that they themselves committed.

It was an analogy. It's a comparison in modern day terms of what Jesus did for us.

Don't take this the wrong way, as it's the underlying OP, and I in no way mean to belittle you by saying this, but your comparison was one in modern day terms of what YOU believe Jesus did for us.

Originally posted by Dianec
reply to post by joeyv23

 

Appreciate your sharing more of your beliefs in there. If Jesus (Immanual) did not die on the cross and rise from the dead this takes away the entire premise of Christianity it would seem. I am interested in your knowledge simply because I too believe something about Judas and Mary M has been off. I know there was a book from both found (in the Dead Sea scrolls?). Not sure on that but why haven't these been taken more seriously (as in altering wide spread belief systems). And if Jesus was betrayed by Judas would He approve of us casting stones when the point of His existence was love and forgiveness? I'm always willing to hear more about Jesus. I may not agree (it will resonate or it won't) but I personally won't take offense or judge.

With living another 100 years elsewhere - already thinking no on that (without hearing what you have to say). I say this because even Native American accounts place a man of who may have been Jesus appearing after the resurrection (who appeared and then disappeared). There were also guards by the tomb who would have taken their job quite seriously given the severity of allowing a theft of the body. I'm thinking even those in power knew a miricle had happened since the guards were not killed.

I believe we have a responsibility to use what's been given to us (the story/knowledge and ability to have relationship) to be freed from our shortcomings. If someone is truly invested in the relationship it can free them. If its just words it isn't enough.

I should have chosen my words better, I didn't mean that he lived on for another 100 years, but that he lived to be over 100.

Explanation for the guards not seeing the healers... there was a hidden entrance to the tomb. His body wasn't removed, he was healed for 3 days and then escaped using the hidden entrance.

Judas didn't betray him, He was pushed as the betrayer in order to further the plans of degrading the man that was Immanuel and his teaching/followers. It was Juda Ischariot that betrayed Immanuel with a kiss.

I'm glad for the intelligent not flaming discussion. Thank you

Originally posted by joeyv23

Originally posted by Dianec

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Dianec

 

I think your example is extremely immoral. What kind of person allows their friend to take the blame for a crime that they themselves committed.

It was an analogy. It's a comparison in modern day terms of what Jesus did for us.

Don't take this the wrong way, as it's the underlying OP, and I in no way mean to belittle you by saying this, but your comparison was one in modern day terms of what YOU believe Jesus did for us.

If someone asked you to explain what it means when people say "Jesus died for our sins" how might you better explain it? I personally look for as many ways as possible to help people get it if they can't wrap their minds about what that means.

For any interested in reading more about the hidden truth of the story of Immanuel, check out this link, but be warned.. without an open mind, the truth will not be seen. There is much more to the story and we have only barely BARELY scratched the surface here.

"And They Called His Name Immanuel - I Am Sananda"

The best source for everything Immanuel/Jesus/Esu/Sananda

Set of new scriptures as written by Sananda himself

Originally posted by Dianec

If someone asked you to explain what it means when people say "Jesus died for our sins" how might you better explain it? I personally look for as many ways as possible to help people get it if they can't wrap their minds about what that means.

I would say that he didn't die for our sins, but that he came here to show us that we could indeed have 'salvation' and that it comes from each and every one of us. This goes back to my remark about the meaning of salvation as converting darkness/ignorance into Light/knowing. Side note.. Gnosis means Knowing. Makes the word agnostic make a lot more sense

reply to post by joeyv23


That isn't what the bible says though. It states He died for our sins (a savior will come; the savior came, etc). Changing this meaning changes everything we know about Christ. I have read some of your first attachment. Page 59 refers to Israel and alludes to how evil they are and how we should not advocate for them but rather realize its between them and God. I don't deny its between them and God but we are also told these are Gods chosen people. Jesus was a Jew. It also states in the bible those who hate them - God would turn against them.

I respectfully say that thus far some of this is what we are warned of in the bible (false teachings, confussion, prophets, etc). Satan in the master of confussion. I believe in the end we will only know the truth if we have relationship and listen to that higher self (part of us that embraces the all knowing - or God/Spirit). I wouldn't read this with a logical mind only but sit with it and ask yourself if it resonates with your deepest self. I'm still reading it and it will take awhile since I'm interested at what's out there.

I'm not saying Its all wrong or right (as an opinion), but rather care should be taken (especially in times like this). I'm not a religious person but rather think of myself as spiritual. I know men wrote the bible, inspired by experience and God. Who decided whose stories went into it is a different matter. I think some important accounts from 2000 years ago were left out. I don't think main teachings will change though. The same teachings are taught over and over again with different words and stories to convey the same lessons (trust in something greater than yourself; have faith that even this invisible force exists; don't clutter or clog the ability to connect with God with emotional and moral garbage (sin), build relationship (spend time meditating/quiet and listening), know there is a greater purpose, etc.

To change very clear teachings from the bible means to undo the well known purpose of Jesus. To do this is to unravel His legacy and what would be the purpose behind this. Without resurrection there is no Christianity. What's the purpose of debunking this other than to take Christianity out of the picture and de power Jesus' influence?

Originally posted by Dianec
reply to post by joeyv23

 

That isn't what the bible says though. It states He died for our sins (a savior will come; the savior came, etc). Changing this meaning changes everything we know about Christ. I have read some of your first attachment. Page 59 refers to Israel and alludes to how evil they are and how we should not advocate for them but rather realize its between them and God. I don't deny its between them and God but we are also told these are Gods chosen people. Jesus was a Jew. It also states in the bible those who hate them - God would turn against them.

It also says that talking to a women who is menstrual is a sin. I can't believe that the Bible is the truth that it's purported to be. Is there truth in it? Absolutely. The same can be said for all religions. Christ is a word that, while most of us connote it with Jesus, is an adjective to any path one takes that has a foundation of Love. Christ/Chrystos/Crystal Consciousness (that we are evolving into now) is where it came from.

The Bible says that Israel is the holy land and it's inhabitants are God's chosen. We are ALL Israel. I cannot for one minute fathom a loving omniscient, omnipresent, conscious entity would care for a minute where people go to learn about their spirituality and divinity. I also cannot hold to God... everything... turning it's back on one part of itself because that part 'hates'. Hate comes from misunderstanding, which breads fear. Fear is a product of being in the lower frequencies/dimensions. It's all part of our growth. We have/are learned/learning how to transmute fear into Love. That's one of the major things that I believe we came here to do.

I respectfully say that thus far some of this is what we are warned of in the bible (false teachings, confussion, prophets, etc). Satan in the master of confussion. I believe in the end we will only know the truth if we have relationship and listen to that higher self (part of us that embraces the all knowing - or God/Spirit). I wouldn't read this with a logical mind only but sit with it and ask yourself if it resonates with your deepest self. I'm still reading it and it will take awhile since I'm interested at what's out there.

I'm not saying Its all wrong or right (as an opinion), but rather care should be taken (especially in times like this). I'm not a religious person but rather think of myself as spiritual. I know men wrote the bible, inspired by experience and God. Who decided whose stories went into it is a different matter. I think some important accounts from 2000 years ago were left out. I don't think main teachings will change though. The same teachings are taught over and over again with different words and stories to convey the same lessons (trust in something greater than yourself; have faith that even this invisible force exists; don't clutter or clog the ability to connect with God with emotional and moral garbage (sin), build relationship (spend time meditating/quiet and listening), know there is a greater purpose, etc.

I'm not a religious person either, but I am spiritual. I see religion as having served it's purpose but the time has come that we remember that we don't need a building or a priest or necklace to connect us to the Divine Love of Everything that is/we are.

To change very clear teachings from the bible means to undo the well known purpose of Jesus. To do this is to unravel His legacy and what would be the purpose behind this. Without resurrection there is no Christianity. What's the purpose of debunking this other than to take Christianity out of the picture and de power Jesus' influence?

I recommend the link to the new scriptures as dictated by Sananda/Jesus himself. His power is our power. He is our brother. He loves us and wants good things for us. He will rectify the wrongs perpetuated by those that twisted his and other spiritual teachings. He will return. Right now he is what many would call an extra-dimensional being. He exists at a higher vibratory frequency/dimension. We have moved out of the "3rd" dimension that we are so familiar with towards the "5th" dimension that Heaven was previously known to exist. It will literally be a return to Christ Consciousness and as an end to suffering, Heaven on Earth. We are currently in the "4th" which is a transition. Gaia (the consciousness of our planet) has already moved into the "5th" which is why we're seeing this crazy weather anomalies this year. She is cleansing herself.

Dec 21 2012 didn't come and go with nothing happening. The seed of our ascension were at that time planted in our souls so that we may return above the veil, into Christ Consciousness. The timing has everything to do with cosmic cycles. I enjoy discussing this with you and hope that we can continue. We're both seekers and the truth will, as you say, be revealed

Check this video out. It's the first one of a 4 part documentary, and I recommend it to you now as it pertains to the Logos. Sananda/Jesus is the Logos.. or consciousness of our Local Universe. Sol/Helios is the Logos of our star system, Gaia is the Logos of our planet and we are each Logoi.

It occurs to me at this time that I have done what was needed. The information is here. Those that want it, take it, it is yours. If anyone is interested in talking to me more, feel free to shoot me a U2U, but my part in this thread is finished.


I love each and every one of you who took the time to read these words regardless of if you accept or deny them. That is your choice. I leave you in the Love and Light of all that I Am/We Are.

reply to post by joeyv23


Hey, Joeyv23: You sent me a reply I didn't see till too late/early in the night/morning to give it the appropriate concentration it deserves in reading and answering, yet. So please don't leave just yet, for after some sleep, I plan on reading what you wrote and responding. It's a long an deep reply, and deserves more than the 1/3 of my brain that's been active after a very long day.
Tetra50

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You do realize that the choice to believe Jesus died for our sins comes from within yourself right? So your salvation still relies on whether YOU make that choice (leap in logic) or not.
So yes, even in your situation, salvation comes from within because you made that choice, no one else.

reply to post by joeyv23


Thank you for the really helpful feedback. I like the way your presented all of that. I especially enjoyed how you referred to the 4th and 5th dimensions. I'm still reading from one of the links you provided and had to drive a long distance today so am a bit slow in finishing but have not forgotten about continuing this discussion.

In the meanwhile I feel a shift in consciousness all around me. May explain the 4th and 5th. It's as if there is a pull to move forward yet a tension - likely because whatever this is is unfamiliar/novel. I see there is not so much a change in biblical teachings but a deepening of the understanding as I get more into the readings you linked. Will continue to read now so will be back later.

PS. When you speak of pure love and union with Him it does seem to be closer somehow - as if more people (I'm noticing) are turning back to something greater than themselves (whatever their higher power is). I am still having a hard time with no death and resurrection though. Had a hard time believing it "did" happen forever but now having a tough time thinking it didn't. Only because I have learned that this is what makes Jesus extraordinary - sets Him apart. Who knows if an alien (from a different galaxy that is more emotionally and morally advanced among other abilities) or truly a human connected to an invisible non alien life form. I am just stuck on the idea of a resurrection having taken place. Open minded but still there.

Salvation comes from within, not without.

'Salvation' is a red herring in the scheme...fire&brimstone, manufactured monsters have turned it into a race to an invisible finish line - dates and all (or interpretations of prophecy of such).

Folding back on accepted logic makes it internally consistent as a 'system'...and outside of this accepted 'system' of interpretations are labelled as satanic, against Gods' will (simply because they are not elements that fit the internally consistent and accepted logic). This is to be expected...the mandate of free will makes it operate in this way - that gift cannot be repealed...so questions and doubt continues around the effects of the mandate...time stricture is a red herring in the scheme (with regards to soul development)...and the musings of the ants on a small blue planet (special in its positioning and purpose) are mumblings and white noise...

Responsibility only comes from free will...no free will, no responsibility...but we are not bots...beings infused with the ability of free will (which is a creative principle) must and should take responsibility within a system that cannot be altered, because it is the paragon of love and freedom...unfortunately it is also the instrument of aberrant creations of horror (subsequently used to illustrate an internally consistent system using the free will mandate that is creative in principle, and is allowed under it)...ALL comes from me...

Apologists argue the will of God, detractors argue the influence of 'outside' forces (as if we had not learned that what we see, experience is not perceptually based?!)...

We are the 'within' that create the 'without'...it is our birthright...enter responsibility for what you create...

Å99

reply to post by joeyv23


From with in comes the knowledge that you are a sinner. Salvation ? Not with out Christ pal.
Won't happen.

I thought about it a while, and I would like to keep talking to you guys about all of this. I don't have internet at home and only get on at work. I'll be back at work Monday night at 2300 EST. Looking forward to it Light and Love for all of your weekends