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Can Spirits/Demons lie?

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posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 04:17 PM
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Ive heard numerous times on the radio (CBC in canada) and its an old belief of the Siksika tribe (my tribe,aka blackfoot) that when confornted by a spirit/angel/demon/entity that they canot lie if asked a direct question (i.e. are you really my mother, are you decieving me,etc) any pyschics here that can confirm deny or elaborate?




posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 07:43 PM
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Demons lie all the time. Deceit is their primary weapon, since they can almost never affect the physical world except through such things as possessing humans. They lie to everyone, including themselves, which is one of the main reasons they became demons in the first place.

Non-demonic spirits, or "angels" are generally pretty honest, but they are not omniscient and can be wrong, just like humans.

The best rule of thumb when dealing with spirits is to remember that they are pretty much the same as us: it takes all kinds to make a spirit world.

If you are looking for truth and honesty, my advice is to look within, and be skeptical of everything anyone tells you.

That includes what I just told you.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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Majic is bang on.

Satan and his many helpers-lol. Lie all the time. Want to know why?

It is because Satan is all about illusion and when one does this or follow this path it leads to nothing but pain and misery.

But scince Satan is in hell why should It care about you or me!



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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Since when do spiritual entities actually communicate to living things in the physical realm? How do you tell if the person supposedly communicating with spiritual entities is not merely out of their mind? Don't you need proof something exists before you can speculate on its behavior?

- Attero

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Attero Auctorita]



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 12:27 PM
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Not on a spiritual level answer: (i.e. satan not included) Demons (if you consider them in this case not part of satan) can lie. Sometimes if you use an ouija board you can come in contact with one and they will lie to make "friends" with you. I think that demons are almost the same thing as an angry spirit, but with more "power." Don't know if this helps any.



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 12:52 PM
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Attero Auctorita:

Prove love.

et al:

Yes, mischievous entities do lie. If you are unsure if it is the truth you hear, ask the entity to repeat the answer in reverse. If you get gobbledy gook, you're normally dealing with a mischievous spirit otherwise you'll get the same answer but "differently". For example, "go to the house" may be retold truthfully as "the house you must go to".



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by astoreth
Attero Auctorita:

Prove love.

Eloquent and apt.

How can you prove anything in the end? All we can ever know is what we perceive and what we remember -- which itself is based on what we perceive.

We already know that our perceptions are subject to error, sometimes substantial error. Under such circumstances, how can we really be sure of anything?

The art and science of philosophy seeks to resolve precisely this question, and philosophy has so far failed to do so, though it has been studied and contemplated for millenia of human existence.

Can anyone here honestly do any better? Has one among us finally found the answer all our ancestors searched for in vain?

Spiritual communications may indeed be nothing more than self-delusion and madness. Believe me, the thought has crossed my mind far more often than not!

But in the end, which is worse? Accepting the possibility that spiritual communication exists, or accepting the certainty of one's own madness?



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 07:06 PM
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A lie is a creative act. Spirits are repetitive and uncreative. Therefore they can't lie in a strict sense.

What looks like lies is really wishful thinking on the part of the onlooker. Spirits just tell us what we want to hear. In return, we provide them with a home. In the process, either we become heavy with accumulation of spirits or we refine them and prepare them for a better next life.



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by StarBreather
A lie is a creative act. Spirits are repetitive and uncreative. Therefore they can't lie in a strict sense.

Speak for yourself.


Your statements assume that all spirits are the same and inferior to our spirits (unless you consider everyone to be "repetitive and uncreative"), which has never been proven one way or the other.

What evidence do you have that spirits aren't creative?

In fact, I am fairly sure we will come to find the opposite is true: that all spirits are very closely related, that we are all actually brothers and sisters.


Originally posted by StarBreather
In the process, either we become heavy with accumulation of spirits or we refine them and prepare them for a better next life.

There seems to be some inherent contradiction in your theory. If spirits can progress to a "better next life", what prevents them from progressing to a level equivalent to or more advanced than ours?

Perhaps you can elaborate on how we are actually different from spirits?


[edit on 11/12/2004 by Majic]



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 07:36 PM
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Since the Grand Poo-bah of demons is the original liar, I guess it is safe to say, yes.



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 09:18 PM
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Majic/Anibal is quite right.


Free will in the discarnate dimensions grants one the choice of telling what one thinks is the truth or willingly attempting to deceive.

When most souls leave the flesh they join a group consciousness of like-minded individuals. They do this for telepathic unity (which gives them comfort, support and a sense of family) and for the advantage of increased energy levels from combining their soul energies. By definition, Group Entities are deceptive because they strive to promote their own agenda whereby they value membership and influence of the group over the Absolute Truth.

For example:

Ask a Hindu GE if Ganesh is a god and you'll get an answer in the affirmative. Ask a Christian GE if Jesus is Lord and you'll get a resounding "yes." Ask the latter group if Ganesh is a god and you'll get a "no." Ask the former group if Jesus is above all the other gods and you'll also get a "no." Both of these relatively common angel collectives reside in the Mid Realms of Spirit and are basically spiritual, but that does not insure that they tell the Absolute Truth as both are promoting their own agenda.

The more truthful and objective discarnate elements are those who seek to become a "Light onto Oneself" and are not part of a collective consciousness that strives to further its own agenda. These are the discarnate Saints. True Saints in the Spirit do not promote the "gods" from the traditional religions but instead pursue transcendent spirituality with an individualistic focus.

One must also keep in mind that a discarnate or group thereof may be telling the truth as he or they see it but still be wrong. Honesty does not guarantee knowledge or wisdom in any particular subject.

It also helps to understand that the discarnate dimensions consist mainly of a large collection of special interest groups. Like political parties in the flesh, they generally promote only part of the truth in order to further their own particular platform.

As with the flesh, the mob mentality in the discarnate dimensions is generally more interested in gaining more power and influence than in furthering an accurate appraisal of the situation.

A timely example is all the people who channeled that John Kerry would win the Presidential election. They received that information from Group Entities who wished to promote that agenda but whose prejudice tarnished their perception of reality.

From my many years of experience as a spiritual medium, here is a guidepost in getting accurate information from Spirit:

The more powerful channelings are usually deceptive or just wrong as they come from Group Entities. The more subtle, quieter messages that do not have a whole lot of energy surrounding them but are pure and sincere (and are representative of discarnate Saints) are generally more accurate. So if you feel a lot of energy surrounding a particular message from Spirit, you can safely assume that it is wrong.

Indeed, this constitutes a rather strange paradox but I have found it time and time again to be the case.




posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 10:56 PM
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I am new to the group. I am glad to be here, wherever here is.

I am 3/4 blackfoot indian also. I don't think it has anything to do with wether or not evil spirits can or can't lie to us. I think when we are on the other side, which to me is going to sleep and entering into another realm from the physical realm, we are all the same. We learn as we experience more of the other side. Just as when we were born into the physical realm, we had to learn. It is alote like the physical realm. If you tell an evil spirit or demon, tell me the truth or leave my presents, it is like people in the phys. realm, some may listen and some may not. If they don't listen, just turn away and go somewhere else. When you are in the spiritual realm you just have to be prepared for anything. You are not in Kansas anymore. This is just from what I have experiences over the years. They only have as much power as you give them, so don't give them any. Well, this is just how I have handled it, but everyone is different.
Thanks for allowing me to be part of the discussion.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by Kings Knight mare
Ive heard numerous times on the radio (CBC in canada) and its an old belief of the Siksika tribe (my tribe,aka blackfoot) that when confornted by a spirit/angel/demon/entity that they canot lie if asked a direct question (i.e. are you really my mother, are you decieving me,etc) any pyschics here that can confirm deny or elaborate?


Hi Kings Knight mare.

I have been involved in this field for over 30 years. Over that time I have learnt a thing or two about the "out there" stuff.
What creates the greatest confusion, is when people contact the closest plane to this one. This plane is the "Limbo" plane, peopled by human beings who have not crossed over, after physical death. Some of them do not even know they have died. They still have the same personalities and traits, both good and bad, that they did when physically alive. This is the area where most poltegiest activity emenates from.

As this plane, is very close to the physical earthly plane, it is very easy to connect to.
Do some of those in this plane, lie to you, well yes, of course they do, afterall, they are really still the humans they were in physical life. Some are jokers, some are not, some are really vindictive sods, just like in physical life.

Genuine connection with loved ones, who have crossed over, is on another level. This level, or to be correct, levels, is where the truth comes across from the genuine departed person. From these levels, there can be NO lies told.

Cheers

Malai5.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 08:51 AM
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malai5:

Well said.

I call the lower plane the "psychic plane" and the higher planes the "spiritual planes".

I refer to psychic's as those that connect to the lower plane and spiritual people as those that connect to the higher planes.

Anyone can connect to the psychic plane but I believe you have to be true to connect to the spiritual plane.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 08:55 AM
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From my many years of experience as a spiritual medium and also as a counselor for victims of discarnate demonic attack and alien abduction, I have also learned that occasionally an unstable Saint/Archangel in the Higher Realms has been known to willfully attempt to deceive someone in the flesh. But there is a price to pay. That price is a lessening of the deceiver's ability to unite with The Light, the extent of which is determined by the degree of harm caused to one or more innocents. Resulting in the deceiver descending to the Mid or even the Lower Realms where souls of common morality dwell.

We all have free will to tell the truth in the flesh and in the Spirit; but when we purposely deceive another, we lessen our ability to unite with The Light when our souls are free of matter.




[edit on 13-11-2004 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 08:59 AM
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I couldn't believe the title of this thread, but then on thinking about it....came to the reality that many are not knowledgeable on such things. I usually stay out of these threads, but thought it was important to reiterate what was said that yes they do and can lie and no one should be playing with anything do to with spirits unless they have studied and know what they are doing...I am experienced and know what I'm doing and still stay clear...it's just smart!



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