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The Death Penalty vs. Life Imprisonment vs. the prison mentality

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posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:15 AM
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I bring this up because many people seem to be no longer afraid of prison and some actually seek it out. The way I see it is that if someone is in prison, it should not be a pleasant experience whatsoever. I know that I am opening a can of worms here, but here goes…

I am a proponent for the death penalty as well as life imprisonment, and I am not at all humane about either.

If someone is sentenced to death, I think that a good strong hemp rope works just fine and should be open to the public as well. If the rope breaks, then the executioner shoots. It doesn’t need to be televised either, You Tube will ensure widespread dissemination.

If convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment without parole and all appeals are used up (limited to 5), then into solitary you go. Guards don’t talk to you, no medical help, no reading material, no radio or TV, no window either. Just a heated 6x8 cell with a bed and crapper. Soundproofed, so that no codes can be tapped to other cells. No family visits either. Oh, you’ll be fed, but forgotten by the rest of the world. And that is where the perp will sit until they die. I guess that is still a death sentence isn’t it.

For those sentenced to a limited time in prison (1-20 yrs) life should not be much better. No TV, No papers, No books, No weights or sports, No industrial work, No school either. Time outside is limited to 1-3 hours (population dependant) a day with only 10-20 people max at any time, which may limit time spent outdoors to once a week. All meals will be nutritious but redundant. Over population should not be an issue either. After all, if they had chosen to live an honorable life they wouldn’t be there.

If any riots break out and commands are not immediately obeyed, then the guards are authorized to use whatever measures to bring things under control, this includes shooting the rioters.

It is obvious that many criminals do not care about getting caught, and the ones that do often commit suicide. Those who serve the shorter sentences would spread the word. “You don’t wanna go there.”

Are my ideas cruel? I think so. But I also think they need to be implemented.

The message is; “If you’re not prepared to do the time, then don’t do the crime.”




edit on 21-8-2013 by TDawgRex because: spelling




posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:26 AM
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Your not one to cross i can see. :p

From the minute we are born we begin to die. Some people realize this and do not fear what cant be changed.

I know someone who committed crimes daily so he could go to prison and get fed clothed housed and free cable tv.

Why would you want to work like a slave when you can get it handed to you, literally.

I seem to have forgotten my train of thought........Oh yeah, once people feel that they have nothing left, they give up the will to fight and go down a road where they will be cared for till the end.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:29 AM
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I used to believe as you do, but I have come to realize that a society can not be truly civilized by killing its prisoners. Society cannot set the example of killing its prisoners and treating them inhumanely and still maintain its heart and soul.

Now don't get me wrong. If someone did something to my daughter I may very well be angry enough to kill, but it would be in anger and the passion of the moment. This is very different than what you are proposing.

Society has the benefit of hindsight and time. To execute an unarmed prisoner, regardless of the crime, is barbaric when you put it in the context of a civilized society.

This is my opinion. Your opinion may vary.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Metallicus
 


I used to believe as you do as well. But with the advent of the internet we are now starting to see into the minds of criminals a whole lot better.

Some just do not care…so why I ask should we care about them?

Life is tough, no question about that at all. But I think that a death/life imprisonment/prison sentence should be even tougher.

It should be something to be avoided at all costs. And the cost is actually cheap. Live a good life, get educated, find a job and raise a family. I will grant you that those aren't really that easy, but they are better than spending time behind bars the way I propose.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

I am a proponent for the death penalty as well as life imprisonment, and I am not at all humane about either.

That's actually too bad as our humanity is what sets us above other animals.



If someone is sentenced to death, I think that a good strong hemp rope works just fine and should be open to the public as well. If the rope breaks, then the executioner shoots. It doesn’t need to be televised either, You Tube will ensure widespread dissemination.

This seems a bit over the top. When we stop a wild dog sometimes it shot if there is no other way. Otherwise we put it down with an injection. We can at least offer the worst of our brothers or sisters the same.



If convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment without parole and all appeals are used up (limited to 5), then into solitary you go. Guards don’t talk to you, no medical help, no reading material, no radio or TV, no window either. Just a heated 6x8 cell with a bed and crapper. Soundproofed, so that no codes can be tapped to other cells. No family visits either. Oh, you’ll be fed, but forgotten by the rest of the world. And that is where the perp will sit until they die. I guess that is still a death sentence isn’t it.

Why not just torture them until they die. That seems to be what you suggest. We could just strap them to a gurney in the dark and shoot them full of hallucinogenic drugs until they went mad. That might be more humane.



Are my ideas cruel? I think so. But I also think they need to be implemented.

Yes they are cruel, beyond cruel actually. Rather than implement your ideas I suggest we just drag the convicted from the courthouse and shoot them around back. It would be more merciful.

Note I believe in the death penalty as well. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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I don't understand life imprisonment. The role of prison is to punish the wrong and serve as rehab for the now ex-con to never want to come back. If in for life, then both of those roles no longer apply. (and why should the taxpayers feed, clothe, and house this person for life?).

No, life imprisonment should be equated to a death sentence, simple as that. If serious enough for life in prison, serious enough for the death penalty, in my book.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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I am much more comfortable with shooting those with life/death sentences than I am torturing them. Kinda like I would rather swat a fly dead than pull off it's wings and legs.....

Think about your post. It is advocating cruel and unusual punishment.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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Yeah, I realized when they built the prison in Manistee, and I found out that Judges and Lawyers where going there, because they had the most extensive law library, anywhere around, that something was seriously wrong with the system.

Get out of prison, with a college degree. Or, like someone I knows father, have to continually be moved from prison to prison, because the other prisoners start calling you the godfather (he's a lifer).

I am for the death penalty, as there are truly evil people out there. (the above fellow is one.)



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:53 AM
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Yah let's publicly hang criminals so the next criminal would hopefully think twice about committing a crime. You say not televise it, but some Joe would take his IPhone out and record and upload on youtube. That would work to pave the path of justice but then again who's going to rob us off to pay taxes for these prisons? Tax tax tax.

Just look around..society praises psychopaths and criminals and the thug mentality. The media and the entertainment industry work very hard to breed criminals and make it a "cool" thing. Social engineering at its best.



And no you are not cruel, we just need a better justice system.

Eta: I wasn't being sarcastic with my beginning post.

edit on 21-8-2013 by PurpleVortex because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Bassago

When we stop a wild dog sometimes it shot if there is no other way. Otherwise we put it down with an injection. We can at least offer the worst of our brothers or sisters the same.


I think people need to see criminals kicking at the end of a rope. Just for the message. A injection can be construed as a peaceful end by those observing it. Giving a peaceful end to someone who did not give his/her victims the same chance.



Why not just torture them until they die. That seems to be what you suggest. We could just strap them to a gurney in the dark and shoot them full of hallucinogenic drugs until they went mad. That might be more humane.


Torture? Yes I can see it as that. And I bet there are people out there who would like that life. But the threat of punishment of basically being erased, I think would be a huge deterent.



Yes they are cruel, beyond cruel actually. Rather than implement your ideas I suggest we just drag the convicted from the courthouse and shoot them around back. It would be more merciful.


Sorry, we do agree to disagree, but I don't think we should show criminals any more mercy than they did the victims.

I believe that all executions should be public, violent and the convicted gagged so there may be no last statements. Sometimes no mercy is called for when putting down a rabid animal.


edit on 21-8-2013 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:54 AM
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It all depends on what your view of prision is.

Is it punishment, or is it Rehabilitation.

We like to pretend we are an enlighten society (we are not) and that prison is for reforming an individual from criminal to productive citizens.

NOW if you wan't to drop all pretense and make prison for punishment only well that's another issue .


In practice the truth is far worse, the system is imbalanced and broken, at which point Myself, I can not be a proponent of a death penalty.

IF there is even the chance a law abiding citizen faces death due to procedural flaws in the system than we shouldn't be putting people to death.

NOW if you wan't to drop all pretense and make prison for punishment only well that's another issue that deserves its own thread on its own.
edit on 21-8-2013 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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in all actuality.. prisoners have it better than a greater majority of people that break their backs trying to provide for their families.

knowing this i'm honestly surprised there hasn't been some sorta push changing laws so that's it's harder to get imprisoned and sent to jail or sending a resume before being considered for incarceration haha

anyway.. all three topics would be hard to consider unless whatever the crime was, was committed against you.

if someone killed one of my family members i'd definitely be for the death penalty, life just means a "limited" vacation coupled with the game of staying alive and not getting gang raped in the shower and the "prison mentality" is more like what happens after being in jail for a long time.

what i hate about the whole topic is.. just like in society, in jail your surroundings reflect on how rich you are and all the country club like prisons there are.. the entire judicial system is horrifying to me actually.

if you think about it long enough you'll make yourself a prisoner in your own home, scared of being wrongly convicted, not have the money to pay for anything even close to decent legal representation to prove your innocence.. etc.. uhg it never stops.

"they" count on you fearing this and just want you to stay home and keep filling up social media websites with your personal information and have you ever noticed that like telling a stranger your secrets you will post your information on the net, stuff you don't even tell your closest friends or family? haha think about it.

hmm i kinda stayed on topic for the most part.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
I don't understand life imprisonment. The role of prison is to punish the wrong and serve as rehab for the now ex-con to never want to come back. If in for life, then both of those roles no longer apply. (and why should the taxpayers feed, clothe, and house this person for life?).

No, life imprisonment should be equated to a death sentence, simple as that. If serious enough for life in prison, serious enough for the death penalty, in my book.


It's the bleeding hearts that make this so. They feel better about themselves by changing the laws. I actually agree with your book.

But since things are the way they are. Make their life miserable and forgotten by the rest of us. Think of it this way. Once the door is closed on a lifer, the trash is taken out and forgotten. And the lifer has no one to blame but himself.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


Cameron Todd Willingham....that name is all I need to know to tell you that even if an argument can be made for the death penalty, we are not capable of utilizing it properly.

I am a firm opponent of the death penalty (relatively rare coming from Texas).

I believe that making prisons tougher only makes prisoners tougher. Reality proves this out. Instead, we should make prisons that acheive a goal: creating better people.

How do we do that? Well, that is another debate. However, what we have today only creates prisoners who are more angry, stronger, and better equipped (both physically, and through connections) to cause harm to others.

The viewpoint you espouse seems to hinge on a feeling of superiority. Of putting other humans into a subhuman status. It certainly doesn't consider that our prison system should have the goal of reducing crime, and that the environments we create there need to meet those goals.
edit on 21-8-2013 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Which page in your book discusses Cameron Todd Willingham?

ETA for those not familiar:

www.newyorker.com...
edit on 21-8-2013 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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Yep to prison making them stronger. Just why do we have gym equipment in prison? If anything, we should be making them slower, weaker, etc. so they'll be easier to catch if they screw up again!

And voluntary vasectomies, so they don't breed more little hooligans...in exchange for a lessened sentence.

I keep thinking of Demolition Man, where he kept knitting....

edit on 21-8-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Well, it also teaches a mindset. Someone who has been to a penitentiary leaves with a mindset that changes them. More manipulative, more self centered. It is understandable, given the environment they were in. But we do everything we can to make it worse for everyone with the way we run our prisons.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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I agree prisoners should not be allowed TV, weights and boxing bags etc.However I think they should always have access to the appropriate books, education is important and reading a book might actually change their thinking. I disagree with the whole killing thing though, simply because I don't believe or trust the justice system and I would hate to have my life in the hands of a corrupt system.



posted on Aug, 21 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 



I don't understand life imprisonment.


Sure you do.... we all understand it...

Prisoners make money for the owners/investers of the prison... Its a lucrative business

And the longer a prisoner is in said jail.... the more money he makes the prison at the taxpayers expense

Its one of the best ways to milk the public for money... which is why there are so many prisons in America...




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