Manning sentenced to 35 years

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by muse7
Not saying that I support the sentencing or the prosecution of whistle blowers but this man took an oath when he enlisted in the army and he leaked crucial information that was not supposed to be leaked.

He violated the rules, and like a lot of you like to say..this is a country of laws and they must be followed. He broke the law and now he's being punished.

I'd consider myself lucky if I were him.

We don't agree often but here, we couldn't agree more.

Like him, love him or hate him so much it vibrates? Manning still broke his oath, the law and by his own words and deeds? He was fully aware of it at every stage. He could have gone other routes and they may well have failed..but the fact he assumed and never tried means no one can ever know the result it may have had.

Regardless though, your ultimate point is the only point. We're a nation of law or we are not. Law must be blind in application as our rather checkered history of institutional discrimination shows without doubt for how it turns out, otherwise.

Personally? I thought the 20 years he freely admitted full guilt for was sufficient and the trial itself was a wasted play to build a case on Assange. Some connected to the case have stated the same thing. A hell of a lot of money, effort and resources for a trial to a man who was only doing 15 years less than this sentence ...WITHOUT the trial.

manning took no oath to protect and/or cover up human rights violations or war crimes, nor the nature of the entangling engagements represented by the diplomatic cables...
just sayin...

I know that "years" means differently than the years we know, so is it 35 years ie: if he's 20 and he goes to jail for 35 then he gets out when he's 55? This is ridiculous. He exposed the government and gets committed. I doubt he'll get that much jail time if there's a revolt in a few years. He'll probably be set free. But, judging on the outlook of things, I doubt there's going to be enough people that will give a damn about tyranny and just let it slide.

Originally posted by ObservingYou
I don't actually recall being this MAD at a peice of news before - If I ever see Obama, Ima slap him round the face and laugh all the way to my detention centre. Sick ffin pigs!!

I have been just recently. When Zimmermann was acquicted of his crime.

This verdict was unjust, this sentence is unconsciousable in light of other espionse cases where people actually sold or tried to sell secrets to a real or perceived enemy.

Mannings crime, I've come to believe, wasn't espionage - it was telling the truth about war crimes - it was embrassing the US government (and this from a believer in governance - in good/transparent/socially ethical governmnet).

I'm ashamed to be a US Citizen today....

The good who stand up for what's right are always either killed, imprisoned, tortured, destroyed in more creative ways or all of the above. I wasn't expecting a happy outcome to this or even one which might give me a little sigh of relief, but I'm still very saddened by this. Heroes are still shot to Hell, and meanwhile... (need I mention O. J. Simpson?)

This is not surprising but it is very saddening.

reply to post by TheMagus

No.. He didn't take an Oath to cover up war crimes or atrocities. I also consider what that Apache Helicopter did to BE a war crime, too. The friggin troops that came up after were no better, running right over one of the bodies, as I recall. Oh, that's the way to win all kinds of hearts and minds from every pair of eyes in windows for blocks.

If he'd stopped there, he wouldn't have necessarily ended up spending the best years of his life in prison. Unfortunately, by trial record, I believe the count was around 700,000 documents he dumped. I laugh at attempts to defend that. Really. It just flat out can't be done. Leaking suggests the concept of deliberately passing information.

He just cranked open the spigot on a fire hydrant and walked away, whistling....until busted. I didn't know this until the penalty phase of the trial. but there was a special team formed specifically to find, protect and where necessary, relocate those names that came among the 10's of thousands of daily patrol and contact reports he spewed. So the damage really was taken very serious and a lot of effort was put out in response to it all. The little things that trials help bring out....eh?

He would have known that by his defense team though, so I imagine it factored into his pleading guilty to the vast majority of the charges before the trial began.

reply to post by CALGARIAN


sorry, Calgarian, usually I read entire thread before reply, but I just cannot help myself here.

Sometimes, it seems we are traitors when trying to save the very thing sentencing and marginalizing us.....
Tetra50

ETA: He said he did what he did for love of country......I don't think any of us commoners out here argue with that.

Siding with the goverment is NOT patriotism. Siding with the People is.
Disobeying wrong or unjust laws is a duty, remember.

Exposing crimes is not a crime, exposing tyranical actions is never a crime.
With the logic of some members here, the conspirators against Hitler deserved what they got.

SO MR MANNING AND MR SNOWDEN ARE NOT CRIMINALS?

Why are they still being hunted ? OH because the people that run the NSA are guilty of alot more crimes than either of these two Gentlemen Patriots who are being hunted for speaking out against corruption.

It is kind of a no-brainer if you actually think about it and refuse to listen to the bull# spin the media puts on it.

as of now THERE HAVE BEEN NO CASUALTIES CAUSE OF THE LEAKS..

There certainly was casualties at Benghazi but that was because the CIA said they surrounded the building while the terrorists where attacking oh wait CIA is actually the Terrorist branch of the US GUBMENT

CIA = SA
NSA = SS

Seriously guys it is getting a bit pathetic you all have guns point them at the people committing the wrong stop pretending that you can't do it.

Romans 13.3

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.


THATS FROM THE BIBLE


THE BIBLE IS TELLING YOU BEAR ARMS IN THIS VERY SITUATION.

It is times like this my Messianic Complex goes off the hook.

reply to post by Gestas


Yes, because the very idea of security for the people is antithetical and now incongruent with the actions of said agencies supposedly designed to keep us safe.....or anyone else anywhere, for that matter. It has become, increasingly, about KILLING, not SAVING........
Respectfully,
Tetra50

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by ObservingYou
I don't actually recall being this MAD at a peice of news before - If I ever see Obama, Ima slap him round the face and laugh all the way to my detention centre. Sick ffin pigs!!

You wont laughing to anywere as Obama SS goons will shot you dead.......

are you drunk?

My god, by the time that poor guy gets out, he and his jailers will have forgotten why he was in there, plus he will not survive on the outside, he will be so institutionalised.

Originally posted by muse7
Not saying that I support the sentencing or the prosecution of whistle blowers but this man took an oath when he enlisted in the army and he leaked crucial information that was not supposed to be leaked.

He violated the rules, and like a lot of you like to say..this is a country of laws and they must be followed. He broke the law and now he's being punished.

I'd consider myself lucky if I were him.

laws created by the corrupt to hide and cover up their corruption. Screw that, what about principles and morals and human decency.

He probably took that oath with all the best intentions. When he was sworn to secrecy he probably didnt know what corruption is going on around him and was told false truths about why its a secret. Do you honestly think that the right thing to do is ignore the corruption?

get real! I am totally and completely behind the Mannings and Snowdens of the world who are the real heroes. They are the ones risking everything fighting for transparency and truth...the military just fight for the government.

Manning is not lucky...none of us are right now!

No one wants to hear my voice, but maybe I've got something smart to say. Stay in school. Protect your rights. Never rat on your friends. Hitler is dead, but there is always hope in the world. There were far worse people in history and in the future, but crimes against humanity should not be tolerated.

Originally posted by wrabbit2000

 

I also consider what that Apache Helicopter did to BE a war crime, too.

I believe the count was around 700,000 documents he dumped. I laugh at attempts to defend that.

I will defend him. The "government" officials, the tax payers' employees, including so-called "Congress", make laws to suit themselves, then choose to apply "our", no their, laws when and where it pleases them. Government officials do whatever is convenient to further their own interests. Not the interests of the American people.

What happened to the people who committed what you refer to as war crimes? What happened to the people who committed Iran Contra? Fast and Furious? How about the Gulf of Tonkin that never happened, who misled the US military to raise the stakes in Vietnam? How many people died there?

The government officials sent troups into a foreign country to execute a man - without any kind of a trial - and then refuses to release any evidence of what happened. The identity of the SEAL team that performed this task was disclosed, causing its members to fear for their lives. Then they died. Who disclosed this information? Joe Biden.

700,000 ? Out of how many millions of "secret-government" documents per year? Why are government officials keeping this many secrets out of sight of "We the People" - their employers?

The day that the government officials can be trusted - because they have very few documents they try to hide from us -

and the day that government officials get punished for their crimes-while-on-the-people's-salary -

is the day that I will agree that somebody who discloses "secret-government" documents must be punished for it.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


This is sick Wrabbit, and I expected better of you.

The man exposed blatant violations of international human rights, by the US Government, and instead of them owning up to it, and actually being held accountable for their evil deeds; they ruin the life of the man who did the right thing, WHETHER IT WAS AGAINST "MILITARY" LAW OR NOT.

So what if Manning broke the law, by exposing these crimes? Where is the accountability to be had by our federal government each and every day when they break the very same laws? Double standards don't beget adherence..

The division of power is important for every democracy. Power itself is a drug that debouches those who get it or want to get it to misuse it or do wrong.
So the judicial system must controle the politicians. And this is only possible, when the judges are independant.
A military court is never independant. How could judge Denise Lind incorporate the perception of Bradley Manning as somebody, who did something good for humanity? She could not, because she is just a gear-wheel in a big machine. A 35 year sentence is beyond any reasonable judgement.

So if the judicial system does not fullfill its role and becomes the servant of politics instead to correct political wrongdoings then the world needs more people like Manning and Snowden.

If anyone has to ask if Bradley Manning did the right thing... and really has to question it. Ask yourselves where else did the cases of illegal actions he uncovered in the military get disseminated? If the whistleblower system was effective these incidents would have already been scrutinized.

If it's not a whistleblower, it should be an internal checks and balances agency or department that is responsible for these kinds of things.

If it never comes to light and is buried, then there is a major problem with the system. If it takes illegal actions to bring things to light, there needs to be major overhauls on how it works.

Simple as that.

It should be for the greater good. Anything the government or its branches do, for the greater good.

He wants to be a woman, named Chelsea...didnt see that coming...

This is from the first chat logs that trapped him:

(1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just... dont wish to be a part of it... at least not now... im not ready... i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me... plastered all over the world press... as boy...
(1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i've totally lost my mind... i make no sense... the CPU is not made for this motherboard... (1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy
(1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
(1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out... to be myself... and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations
(1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
(1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now...
(1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged... and figure out how on earth im going to transition
(1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed (1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologically

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Some people here would worship the Rosenbergs as heros and probably figure Benedict Arnold was simply a misunderstood patriot.

I really don't' have time for the hero worship anymore on this. The kid accepted guilt by his own choice, his supporters can't even accept, which is so sad I honestly find it amusing for that. The kid pleads GUILTY by HIs OWN choice....and his fan club can't accept he did wrong. :shk: What does he have to do? Make a statement on world television to note the fact even HE knows he screwed up badly? He does..has said as much and did accept those pleas with the accompanying sentence they likely carried.

I've said he shouldn't have really gotten more than 20...but that's not enough. In this world, criminals aren't criminals if we like the crimes they commit or we figure they had really really good reasons for breaking laws left and right.

Cool.... and hero worship of lawbreaking ...even for the right reasons..is how we're Rome in full burn right now. First the Government broke every law it figured it wanted to and told us how the ends justified any means. Now WE, the public, have come to follow them down the same moral toilet by saying the same thing. 'Crime isn't crime when WE say it isn't'....except, gee...."We say" can have up to 300 million different interpretations.

....and a Nation built and run on law for most of it's existence becomes a nation falling into anarchy and general collapse....while people celebrate the very mechanism causing the largest part of it. TOTAL disregard for ANY law we deem was worth breaking for whatever reason WE deemed it was right.

At least Manning had class, maturity and the ability to FACE his own actions in the end. His statements made it clear he has. It's a damn shame his cheerleaders and fan club can do at least as much as the target of affection has.