A Different Take On Christianity And Abortion

reply to post by charles1952


Charles,

If what is inside the mother is a living organism of the human species, with an independent DNA, and whose body is obviously not the mother's body, and in an early stage of development, does Christianity allow us to kill it?

I think that depends on how Christians feel about the killing of women and children in the Old Testament. In the Christian Assembly of God church that I grew up in, in the 60's and 70', the following logic was also used to promote the idea of aborting unwanted pregnancies.

"But why take the lives of innocent children? The terrible totality of the destruction was undoubtedly related to the prohibition of assimilation to pagan nations on Israel's part. In commanding complete destruction of the Canaanites, the Lord says, 'You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons, or taking their daughters for your sons, for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods' (Deut 7.3-4). […]

God knew that if these Canaanite children were allowed to live, they would spell the undoing of Israel. […] Moreover, if we believe, as I do, that God's grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation. We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven's incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives."
William Craig Lane
www.theguardian.com...

When my older (saltine cracker white) sister became pregnant by a black man at 18, our church deacons and the pastor called her and my parents to a meeting where they all insisted she get an abortion, or she would be excommunicated and not allowed to finish her education at her Christian college.

At 17, I found myself pregnant and love with a man my parents didn't approve of. The same ordeal happened with me. I refused, and they all made good on their promise, I was kicked out of the church and my parents home.

My mother's logic was that I was bring a child into the world, a sinner with no hope of salvation, and therefore, destined to hell. She felt it was better that my daughter had never been born, rather than spend eternity in hell. My daughter is an atheist, and my mother died believing that her granddaughter was destined to hell.

Another reason that some Christians were in favor of abortions is their belief that we are the "last generation." I was, like many Christians, raised "knowing" that there was no future, that the tribulation and World War III would make life miserable for the entire planet. People would seek death, and not find it. They will run to hide, but there will no place to hide.

Who wants to have children under those circumstances?

Personally, I find these beliefs and the stance that my church and parents took with both their daughters abhorrent, and NOT a good excuse for their insistence on abortion. But, it was my circle's Christian stance.

That being said, I think that the morality question surrounding abortion is a personal issue, and not one that Christianity can rally around in unity.

The Catholic stance on the issue is empirical and doesn't even allow for birth control. Other Christians are okay with birth control and early abortions. Other's aren't okay with abortions at all, and want to regulate the sexual behavior of the neighbors.

reply to post by Egyptia


That's you point of view. It's not an empirical truth. And it's not necessarily biblical.

Women DO have a choice, and they always have, whether or not it's granted by the government or by you. God put herbs that cause abortions in plain sight. Women will continue to choose to have abortions because the choice is theirs.

reply to post by windword


Dear winword I see that you have trouble distinguishing between where the Truth of G-d is and where man's imperfection based biases smear the truth and distort it. These experiences and representations have nothing to do with G-d even though people were in positions of representing G-d and were supposed to be representing the Truth.

Instead you have found yourself in the middle of the oldest argument between man, religion and Truth. As humans continue to manipulate and distort the truth using religion people become confused and jaded not being able to distinguish between the two. Just because man infiltrates the truth using religion doesn't mean that what they do to us is any reflection of G-d or the Truth.

People who find themselves in the middle of this hypocrisy and contradiction usually become damaged in faith not being able to properly separate man's corruption whether they are in a religious position or not from our Creator and everything that HE has left for us. Unfortunately there have been many people caught in this cross fire causing a rift in their faith and knowledge in HIM.

Do not look for Truth in man, what he represents or in man's polluted understanding that in actions contradict truth and Love. You will find that way is laden with snares, corruption, lies and hypocrisies.

There is a compass within us all placed there in our created being guiding us towards HIS Righteousness in a knowledge of those things that are right and those that are wrong. This is undeniable no matter what people use to fight the direction of the compass within us using intellectual arguments, rebellion, denials including selfish motives that have within their own reasons hidden causes. Humans are fantastic at denying the truth but the compass is not ever broken within us we just choose to not hear it.

Here is where surrendering in HIM will remove the errors of personal prejudices and past hurts allowing the Truth of G-d's Way to prevail. Not in your own understanding and clouded judgements but in allowing G-d to lead you into the truth separating your own mind and feelings from that which you will allow HIM to Reveal.

We fail ourselves when we get in HIS way with all the things we use against HIM in a blaming for all the hurts we have suffered as a result of the pain inflicted upon each other in a condition of corruption that humans perpetuate against one another, some in the name of religion and others not. Sin and corruption have no prejudices and the father of lies prefers to operate and live inside the place where Truth resides most heaping the suffering thick upon us dividing us from the Truth blinding our eyes from HIS Shining Beacon of Light.

reply to post by Egyptia

Dear winword I see that you have trouble distinguishing between where the Truth of G-d is and where man's imperfection based biases smear the truth and distort it. These experiences and representations have nothing to do with G-d even though people were in positions of representing G-d and were supposed to be representing the Truth.

No need to worry about me and my spirituality. I have long since thrown religion to the curb. Although, the mindset of which I speak is still alive and well. I see it in Christians threads here on ATS all the time.

I don't know if you're a Christian, or who the "Him" is that you're referring to in your post. However, if you ARE talking about Jesus, remember these words?

Matthew 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Do you think that Jesus would approve of birth control in "those" days he speaks of? Do you think that many Christians think that NOW is "those" days, and things are only going to get worse?

So, taking the logic of William Lane Craig, isn't it a kinder thing to send an unwanted fertilized egg, embryo or fetus home to God, rather than risk the pain and suffering that it is destined to experience, and possibly have to endure an eternity of hell's fire?