My Trip To Disneyland (August 2013)

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas

Overall, I enjoy your sense of humor, but attempting to lump me in with the anti-masons because I don't share every particular viewpoint of the ATS Masons, is highly inaccurate labeling of my beliefs concerning your fraternity.

edit on 21-8-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

And to my knowledge I have not done that. If you took anything that way, I apologize. Believe it or not, we are all capable of individual thought.
But just because we get along here, doesn't mean I will show you any mercy with that chemtrail nonsense.

I was discussing a point you made that I did not agree with. I will wait until you and Augie are done with your love in before I engage you again. Ya'll freaks have a ball.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It's a parody. No big deal. If you want to get uptight about something ... get uptight about the fingerprinting they do to get into the park .. and the face recognition that they use on visitors. THAT is something to get concerned about.

No, no, nothing sinister. It's just that the extra security measures are cheaper than the cost of hushing up child disappearances.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

If you were a member you'd see the absurdity of the idea that Freemasonry is controlled by others.

reply to post by KSigMason


I never believed or said that it was controlled by bad people

I think that's all nonsense to be frank, and I am very aware that the power structure of Freemasonry allows for no such thing. Am I correct?

Now, that is not to say I don't believe that some people join Masonry for the wrong reasons, and then walk away from it with thoughts of using their teachings for ill-gain. Doesn't mean they have any power or control over Freemasonry; just a new found control over their life, and what they do with it.

reply to post by network dude


I actually enjoy the company of you resident Masons here, and yes 'Auggie' this even includes yourself. While at times we may disagree with the standpoint and views of the other, overall I agree with your way of life. I agree with the virtues or cornerstones of Freemasonry. Which is why although I may not be a Mason, I have incorporated part of the Masonic tracing board into my avatar.

I sport it, not out of desire to be a 'wannabe', but because of the message or resonance that it instills in my heart. I sport your ideals, because they are something that I hold close to my heart. I strongly believe that information or knowledge is power, and what these symbols stand for to me, is a concept that I live my life by. They are there to empower my life, and transmute me from a good person, into a better person : the Great Work of lead to gold.

Take this away though : I am a freethinker, and as such, I always will be.

Overall, I have enjoyed our back and forth, and again while I may not agree with all of your beliefs or premises, again I'm not meant to. What's the point of life if everybody thinks and believes the same? Seems like a boring way for the GAOTU(Grand Architect of the Universe, yes I know what this means), to manifest himself.

Whether or not I agree with all of the personal views of our resident Masons here; I respect all of you, and yes 'Auggie' too

I hope that you continue to show me that equal level of respect, no matter how our standpoints may differ at times.

Ciao.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
Now, that is not to say I don't believe that some people join Masonry for the wrong reasons, and then walk away from it with thoughts of using their teachings for ill-gain.

This viewpoint continues to astound me. There is nothing you learn in Masonry that you do not already know; the Golden Rule. The expression 'making good men better' is not equivalant to 'making men good'. If you do not know how to already do this then you are not going to learn it in Masonry.

I feel you are using a very flawed analogy.

reply to post by r666evolution


Perhaps this is just a nod to all the theories out there?

reply to post by r666evolution


Walt Disney was a DeMolay, which is a group that was setup for boys and had its beginnings as a spin off from Masonry. It is all well known information. I do not believe he ever was Intiated let alone joined the Scottish Rite. He would have had to be a Master Mason before he could have become a Scottish Rite Mason anyway.

I'm probably late to this discussion but I thought that I would throw that out there.

Also just to stir the pot, if you look at some of the early animated features and cartoons that the Disney Studios produced in the 1930's and the 1940's you will find all sorts of masonic references. This is because many of his cartoonists and creative staff were Masons. This is also very well known to many people who study the Craft. Go figure that during a period when masonry had a huge number of members that many on his staff were Masons.

It gets really old explaining the facts to people about Masonry. You can find out a lot of very legitmate information out there if you are really trying to learn about a subject. I should probably just "lurk" in here and not post too often. It gets really frustrating hearing people who know a little belittle something a lot. The information is out there, try to become a student and a scholar.

Disclaimer for Sharkman: Master Mason, Blue Lodge-Past Master, 32' KCCH Scottish Rite, etc, etc, etc.... and Masonic Student, father, grandfather, contractor and general pain in the A$$ to most ignorant people I run into!

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by network dude

 

Do be quite honest, the condescending manner in which you (Masons) deal with most of the posts you find trivial on this website, certainly don't help your case.

I'm sorry if having to address the same previously-debunked canards over and over and over again makes you think Masons are being "condescending". It's the weariness speaking.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
However, I can not rule out the possibility and likelihood

Well which is it? A possibility or a likelihood?

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
that there are those who join Freemasonry for their own nefarious purposes, like I don't know; the very ill gain that you seek to prevent, when they fill out their petition saying not to?

Sorry but is this you reframing "mercenary motives"? If so, do you not understand its intent?

Fitz

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Regardless, you didn't answer MY question as to why even such a lodge would be necessary when the local lodge would do fine. Freemasonry isn't an aspect of the workplace...It's almost like keeping the separation of church and state in school.

Your basis to decide for another group of individuals what they should or shouldn't do is.....what precisely? I wasn't aware somebody had voted you ultimate arbiter of appropriate for others than yourself. Freemasonry is another outlet for men and aside from being a moral fraternity, it (like any grouping of like-minded individuals) also has a social component. In that regard, why do you have an issue? It isn't as if membership is compulsory.

Fitz

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


reply to post by VeritasAequitas



Oh, not again. (facepalm)

reply to post by r666evolution


OP, I have to agree with those on the board who are skeptical about what you state. I feel Disney was just making it fun. The Knight thing... maybe it's just his way to wink at the mason community, you know... Most mason groups will also use greek letters, since it was the language in which the original scriptures about Jesus are written. This.. this is just fake, just a parody. I wouldn't fall for it mate.

Respectfully

Swan

reply to post by Fitzgibbon

Well which is it? A possibility or a likelihood?

I don't suppose you've ever heard of a likely possibility eh? I mean all things are possible in this world, but it's about which possibilities are more likely.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Well which is it? A possibility or a likelihood?

I don't suppose you've ever heard of a likely possibility eh? I mean all things are possible in this world, but it's about which possibilities are more likely.

"However, I can not rule out the possibility and likelihood" you said (but chose not to quote for context); the entire relevant quote is "However, I can not rule out the possibility and likelihood that there are those who join Freemasonry for their own nefarious purposes, like I don't know".

As you point out, the word "possibility" covers a multitude of circumstances and in normal usage implies 'can not absolutely rule out' as in "There's a possibility that Sasqautches exist".

A likelihood is a horse of a different colour.

A likelihood suggests that more often than not (and usually much more often than not), something will happen as in "If you hold an open flame to a sheet of paper, there's a likelihood that it will catch fire. You, however, are using them interchangeably when clearly they are not interchangeable.

So again, for clarity's sake which is it? Is it a possibility "that there are those who join Freemasonry for their own nefarious purposes" (to which I would have to concur that one can't entirely rule out the possibility that some shallow few may join Masonry for mercenary motives) or is it a likelihood "that there are those who join Freemasonry for their own nefarious purposes"?

If the latter, I should like to know where you get your evidence?

Fitz

Originally posted by swanne

Most mason groups will also use greek letters, since it was the language in which the original scriptures about Jesus are written.

?

Freemasonry is not Christian.

Many (possibly most) Masons aren't either.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Since you want to argue semantics : Probability. Happy?

reply to post by Saurus

Many (possibly most) Masons aren't either.

To which I shall again post this quote for those of you who conveniently missed or overlooked my quotes from Freemasonry at the heading of page four...

Famous Freemason and former Harvard student Albert Pike (1809-1892) believed true Freemasonry represented something akin to the ancient doctrine of the Aryan race—a fact not widely recognized. Pike, a pillar of American Masonry, is best known for his 1871 book, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

But few realize he penned two other noteworthy books that examine ancient Aryan spirituality: Aryan Deities and Worship as Contained in the Rig-Veda, and Irano-Aryan Faith and Doctrine as Contained in the Zend Avesta. “The world owes all its correct and profound conceptions of the Deity, and its knowledge of the existence of the human soul, to the great Aryan race.” —Albert Pike, Irano-Aryan Faith and Doctrine as Contained in the Zend Avesta

What religion is the Aryan race responsible for bringing to us? Hinduism...

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
Albert Pike (1809-1892) believed true Freemasonry represented something akin to the ancient doctrine of the Aryan race...

Albert Pike believed it. That makes it his opinion...

Furthermore, did you perhaps miss the very next phrase.... :

—a fact not widely recognized.

reply to post by Saurus


Oh really? What say you for these two other quotes?

“The real source from whence the Ancient Wisdom came was…Old India, the Mother of Civilizations and Religions, and of the esoteric or concealed wisdom.” —Dr. J.D. Buck, Mystic Masonry

“It has been called “The Third Eye.” The Ancient Hindus called it the Eye of Siva…It is atrophied, and therefore dormant in the average individual…The Eye of Siva is, in fact, an All-Seeing-Eye; for it practically annuls Space and Time as concepts on the physical plane…
A real Master [Mason], then, has the Eye of Siva; the pineal gland, dormant in others, is active in him…”
—Dr. J.D. Buck, Mystic Masonry

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Saurus

 

Oh really? What say you for these two other quotes?

“The real source from whence the Ancient Wisdom came was…Old India, the Mother of Civilizations and Religions, and of the esoteric or concealed wisdom.” —Dr. J.D. Buck, Mystic Masonry

In my opinion, there is some truth to this.

“It has been called “The Third Eye.” The Ancient Hindus called it the Eye of Siva…It is atrophied, and therefore dormant in the average individual…The Eye of Siva is, in fact, an All-Seeing-Eye; for it practically annuls Space and Time as concepts on the physical plane…
A real Master [Mason], then, has the Eye of Siva; the pineal gland, dormant in others, is active in him…”
—Dr. J.D. Buck, Mystic Masonry

That is his take on Mystic Masonry. While I don't quite share his view on the pineal gland, I do believe what the following quote suggests:

“The magic in these Masonic rituals is very, very old. And way back in those days, it worked. As time went on, and it started being used for spectacle, to consolidate what were only secular appearances of power, it began to lose its zip. But the words, moves, and machinery have been more or less faithfully carried down over the millennia, through the grim rationalizing of the World, and so the magic is still there, though latent, needing only to touch the right sensitive head to reassert itself.”
~― Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow