Video, August 18, 2013: "Moon’s Orbit Shifted 34 Degrees In 12 Days"

Video: "Moon’s Orbit Shifted 34 Degrees In 12 Days"

The uploader presents his 10 minute video claiming that the "Moon’s Orbit Shifted 34 Degrees In 12 Days"
He uploaded this video on August 18, 2013.

Please watch and explain how he is either right or wrong.



From the text accompanying his video:

Let me be very clear. The coordinates related to the equatorial plane can vary, it is not the same observation as to the ecliptic. Venus is great measure of the ecliptic. The emphemeris diagram shows you where the moon has traveled with respect to venus.

The Moon's path actually does hug more closely to the ecliptic than to the celestial equator. Yes, the plane of the Moon's orbit is inclined by an average of 5.15° to the ecliptic. and yes, the celestial equator is inclined by 23.44° to the ecliptic. The nodes (points at which the Moon's path and the ecliptic intersect) retrogress through the ecliptic with a period of 18.6 years. In 2006 the inclination of the Moon's orbit relative to the equator was at a maximum of nearly 29°. In 2015 it should reach a minimum of about 18°. So, in case someone tries to talk over your head the fact of the matter is that the moon should never be more than 5 degrees off of the ecliptic. Venus is great indicator in this regard. If the moon is 30 degrees away from venus.... there is a problem. But you must measure them at the same points on the horizon to be more accurate.

Here was the predicted path of the moon in August.
www.curtrenz.com... You tell me if its variation off the ecliptic changed.

in-the-sky.org...

Bottom line is that the moon should never set more than 6 degrees from where venus sets. On Thursday is was 30 degrees south. That's the bottom line.
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are

I know there has been many people who anecdotally have felt the moon and also the sun were not as they used to be.

Personally I don't know anything about it, but the first time i witnessed a huge red low on the horizon boat moon here in Ca. on the coast, I was so amazed that i wrote to astronomy sites who assured me i was only seeing a normal moon phase.

I then looked up the maps of the moon and their phases for us here and what I found was that we should have had a normal crescent moon at that time. Why the discrepancy from what the maps all said and what were were seeing and what we was being told.

Then there is the fact that my bsh that is a shade plant up against the back of my home now is in the sun a large part of the day after so many years of only shade in that area. the trees and plants are all in the same place so how is it that it is now sunny where it was only shade.

Wow, this video is all over the place, but I think the key to his confusion lies in the bit at 5:50, where he doesnt understand what "declination" means.



Thats a capture of his video (from 2:15) showing the moon, and how it is confined to the "moons orbital plane".
This is perfectly accurate, but Declination is derived from the earths equator line, which, as you see, is the exact angular distance away from the moons orbital plane that he is concerned about.

Thus, when he says "I was shocked", its only because he didnt understand.



Edit - at 3:35, he reads the exact wikipedia page that would have helped him, except he emphasises the WRONG plane:

The Moon differs from most satellites of other planets in that its orbit is close to the plane of the ecliptic, and not to the Earth's equatorial plane.

Thats the key, the moon does NOT orbit the earths equatorial plane, but thats what Declination is.

reply to post by Char-Lee


That's why this video caught my eye: Numerous threads about the Sun or the Moon being not quite where they should be. Remember the Inuit threads of a while back? Recall reading all the various posts from members saying that they saw the Moon not where it should be. Interesting stuff.

reply to post by alfa1


Lay it out for us. Half the reason for this thread is solicitation of answers as to why "this guys wrong". The other half is, of course, the exact opposite.

I'm not an astronomer. I can't make heads or tails of it.

Well i am none the wiser either however i would have thought that if the moon was not in its predicted
position or the sun for that matter (in reality meaning earth out of position)
then surely the most obvious thing would be ocean tide times and heights would be out of whack
from THEIR predicted positions!

I'm neither an astronomer nor a geologist, but it would seem to me that such a drastic change in the Moon's orbit would cause massive tidal and tectonic disruption on Earth.

But again I'm no scientist...

So, you can refer to things in space using any number of different coordinate systems.

One used in the video is the ecliptic, and that is essentially the plane that all the planets in the solar system use in their orbits around the sun.

Another is the plane that the moon uses to orbit the earth. As the guy correctly says, it does not differ more than about 5 degrees from the ecliptic.

But a completely different one is the equatorial plane, which is derived from earths spin, and is centered on the earths equator. Because this one is just a thing for earth observers, it has nothing to do with objects orbiting anything, and differs from the ecliptic by the 27 degrees of earth tilt.

Add this to the 5 degrees the moon can move from the ecliptic, and you have the moon being able to differ 30 something degrees from the equatorial plane.



And then you make a youtube video about it.

reply to post by ShayneJUK


reply to post by NthOther


Tides. Yup. That was the first reply in the comments section from the video.
I'm not a scientist either.

So... could someone translate alpha1's post regarding declination and such into something very simple that I can understand.

reply to post by alfa1


Have a cigar sir

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
reply to post by ShayneJUK

 

reply to post by NthOther

 

Tides. Yup. That was the first reply in the comments section from the video.
I'm not a scientist either.

So... could someone translate alpha1's post regarding declination and such into something very simple that I can understand.

Ah did not actually watch the video

here is the wiki page on declination if this helps.

declination

As another example of how he doesnt understand what he sees, consider this extract from 10:18 in the video...


He uses this to demonstrate that Venus (southwest) is quite a long way from the moon (south), and puts forward the argument that this 45 degree separation is impossible because they should never be more than about 5 degrees apart.

What he doesnt realise is that he is using his horizon as a reference, whereas his personal horizon on earth has nothing at all to do with the ecliptic.

Now, if I draw the ecliptic onto that start chart (slightly curved, even though I cheated and used a straight line)...

You can now see the planets and the moon are ALL quite close to the plane of the ecliptic, exactly where they should be.

What the deuce? I'm giving stars to debunkers. Who would have thunk it?

Originally posted by alfa1
Wow, this video is all over the place, but I think the key to his confusion lies in the bit at 5:50, where he doesnt understand what "declination" means.

Thats a capture of his video (from 2:15) showing the moon, and how it is confined to the "moons orbital plane".
This is perfectly accurate, but Declination is derived from the earths equator line, which, as you see, is the exact angular distance away from the moons orbital plane that he is concerned about.

Thus, when he says "I was shocked", its only because he didnt understand.

edit on 20-8-2013 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

Edit - at 3:35, he reads the exact wikipedia page that would have helped him, except he emphasises the WRONG plane:

The Moon differs from most satellites of other planets in that its orbit is close to the plane of the ecliptic, and not to the Earth's equatorial plane.

Thats the key, the moon does NOT orbit the earths equatorial plane, but thats what Declination is.

edit on 20-8-2013 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

12 days is almost the 14 days it takes to go from Full to New Moon. In this image, the New Moon would be on the sun-ward side of the Earth. The apparent " change" in orbit would be twice the difference of the moon's orbital plane and the ecliptic, plus the 23 degrees of Earth tilt.

Each month the moon appears to move far North and far South, depending on moon phase and season of the year.

In the Northern Hemisphere, Full moons in the winter are at their furthest apparent northern position, and during the summer, the Full moons appear to be further South. New moons would be opposite. 2 weeks between New moon and full moon.

alpha 1 has very good explanation.

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are


Could it be that the moon has not changed, but the Earth?

When there was the Earth Quake that cause the Problems with Fukashima it was noted at that time that the speed of the planet increased slightly from that event.

Do you think it might have been enough to move us or change OUR Orbit over a period of time?

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
When there was the Earth Quake that cause the Problems with Fukashima it was noted at that time that the speed of the planet increased slightly from that event.

The big Japanese earthquake a few years back was *calculated* to theoretically have changed the length of the day by 1.8 microseconds.
As far as I'm aware that tiny amount was never observed, just theoretically calculated by one guy.

Originally posted by alfa1
Wow, this video is all over the place, but I think the key to his confusion lies in the bit at 5:50, where he doesnt understand what "declination" means.

Thats a capture of his video (from 2:15) showing the moon, and how it is confined to the "moons orbital plane".
This is perfectly accurate, but Declination is derived from the earths equator line, which, as you see, is the exact angular distance away from the moons orbital plane that he is concerned about.

Thus, when he says "I was shocked", its only because he didnt understand.

edit on 20-8-2013 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

Edit - at 3:35, he reads the exact wikipedia page that would have helped him, except he emphasises the WRONG plane:

The Moon differs from most satellites of other planets in that its orbit is close to the plane of the ecliptic, and not to the Earth's equatorial plane.

Thats the key, the moon does NOT orbit the earths equatorial plane, but thats what Declination is.

edit on 20-8-2013 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

Hey! That's a graphic I created myself and posted here on ATS in one of the "The Moon is Upside-down!" threads by "CherubBaby" or "luxordelphi". Here it is in This Post of mine form one of those threads.

The guy who made this video didn't credit me for the graphic I created. But then again, maybe I don't want him to credit me, considering he seems to be very confused about what he is talking about.

However, to the YouTube uploader -- you're welcome!


The guy in this video doesn't seem to be grasping the situation properly. The moon's orbital plane is both above and below the solar system's ecliptic (and sometimes on the ecliptic -- it varies). The Tilt of the earth could put people above and below the ecliptic depending on the change of seasons, and above or below the orbital plane of the Moon, depending on the season. On top of all that, the orbital plane of Venus is about tilted 3.4° (max) relative to the solar system ecliptic plane, and Venus, too, is sometimes above, below, and on that ecliptic...

...So putting all of these variables together, there is not one single "Venus to Moon" relationship that we should see in the sky. That relationship would vary.