"Cowardly" Groklaw, Lavabit, and Silent Circle

page: 1
132
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
+75 more 
posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 10:43 AM
link   
The maelstrom of madness continues to circle the planet because of the long-entrenched corruption of the U.S. Government and its impact on global citizens everywhere. Last week, Lavabit, the private encrypted email service shuttered services because of NSA snooping fears. Also last week, Silent Circle, a similar service which has not yet been contacted by the NSA also shut down. Yesterday, with the approval of the White House, British authorities detained David Miranda, partner of Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald, under the UK's 2000 Terrorism Act. And now today, one of the pillars of accountability on the Internet, Groklaw, is ceasing operations.

Let's review some of the comments specific to the service shutdowns;

Lavabit's owner threatened with arrest for shutting down rather than spying on customers

Levison said he has been "threatened with arrest multiple times over the past six weeks," but that he was making a stand on principle: "I think it's important to point out that what prompted me to shut down my service wasn't access to one person's data. It was about protecting the privacy of all my users."


After Lavabit shutdown, another encrypted e-mail service closes

There are some very high-profile people on Silent Circle—and I mean very targeted people—as well as heads of state, human rights groups, reporters, special operations units from many countries. We wanted to be proactive because we knew USG would come after us due to the sheer amount of people who use us—let alone the “highly targeted high-profile people.” They are completely secure and clean on Silent Phone, Silent Text, and Silent Eyes, but e-mail is broken because govt can force us to turn over what we have. So to protect everyone and to drive them to use the other three peer to peer products–we made the decision to do this before men on [SIC] suits show up. Now—they are completely shut down—nothing they can get from us or try and force from us–we literally have nothing anywhere.


Groklaw Shutting Down Is a Huge Deal

Groklaw, a Website that has spent the past decade covering legal issues important to the open-source community, has decided to shut down.
The reason? Website founder Pamela Jones believes that Groklaw simply can’t continue in an environment of constant online surveillance, as highlighted by The Guardian’s recent revelations of the NSA’s top-secret monitoring programs.


Legal bible Groklaw pulls plug in wake of Lavabit shutdown, NSA firestorm

Blogger Pamela Jones will shut down her award-winning legal news website Groklaw following revelations that the NSA is intercepting the world's internet communications.
Jones, also known as PJ, said in a final farewell article that the shutdown of encrypted email provider Lavabit, used by whistleblower Edward Snowden, had prompted her decision to discontinue the site.



I see these acts as cowardly capitulation. This is not the time to lament and retreat. This is the time to proclaim, as loud as we (conspiracy theorists) can, THAT WE WERE RIGHT! And as such, acquiescence is simply not an option. The fight for our most basic rights is on.

The scale of the government wrong-doing exposed by Snowden's leaks are comparable only to the Pentagon Papers, leaked by Daniel Ellsberg in 1971. The scenarios are hauntingly familiar, a government trying to get news organizations to stop publication, the lawsuits going as far as the supreme court. The government, classifying someone who exposed deep corruption and Constitution-shattering indicted Ellsberg of stealing and holding secret documents (after first failing at espionage). But that's where the similarities end, because Ellsbereg had the courage, tenacity, and ethics to stand and make it a public fight. His bizarre trial ended in a mistrial, with all charges dismissed by the judge.

And now, Daniel Ellsberg has this to say: Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America

In my estimation, there has not been in American history a more important leak than Edward Snowden’s release of NSA material – and that definitely includes the Pentagon Papers 40 years ago. Snowden’s whistleblowing gives us the possibility to roll back a key part of what has amounted to an “executive coup” against the US constitution.

Since 9/11, there has been, at first secretly but increasingly openly, a revocation of the bill of rights for which this country fought over 200 years ago. In particular, the fourth and fifth amendments of the US constitution, which safeguard citizens from unwarranted intrusion by the government into their private lives, have been virtually suspended.

The government claims it has a court warrant under Fisa – but that unconstitutionally sweeping warrant is from a secret court, shielded from effective oversight, almost totally deferential to executive requests. As Russell Tice, a former National Security Agency analyst, put it: “It is a kangaroo court with a rubber stamp.”

For the president then to say that there is judicial oversight is nonsense – as is the alleged oversight function of the intelligence committees in Congress. Not for the first time – as with issues of torture, kidnapping, detention, assassination by drones and death squads –they have shown themselves to be thoroughly co-opted by the agencies they supposedly monitor. They are also black holes for information that the public needs to know.



Let's take a strong cue from an historic hero for accountability, Daniel Ellsberg, and project the courage he portrayed despite what must have been frightening times for him. We here on AboveTopSecret.com, and other conspiracy-focused websites across the Internet, have been saying the things Snowden leaked for years. Now that we have been soundly vindicated, the fight is here.


This is our time. This is our fight.

WE MUST toss aside the petty partisan wars that are merely a tactic in the grand Con Job being perpetuated on the American people and the world. There are no more liberals, there are no more conservatives, there are no more libertarians, and there are no more socialists. There are only those who are classified as potential enemies by the U.S. Government -- all of us.









edit on 20-8-2013 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-8-2013 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-8-2013 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 10:48 AM
link   
The Internet is our 'Final Frontier". The corrupted powers around the world fear it and have seen full well what people are capable of when the free exchange of ideas goes uncensored.

I fear the future of the free Internet, however. I don't think it will be obvious censorship or surveillance as the Iranians or Chinese governments use. I look for internet commerce to be taxed soon, which will bring the IRS and Treasury Dept. to bear as 'internet police', and that's when we can start to really worry.

Just my two cents.




posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 10:58 AM
link   
I thinks its about time we marched on DC.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 11:03 AM
link   
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


I am gunning for ATS to stand their ground if it comes to that.

I am certain that the Alphabet agencies are Very Aware of ATS and may feel somewhat threatened.

Those agencies are some tricky and conniving Sons-A-Britches who use tactics Equivocal to those of School Yard Bullies.

So I say to you Dear Mr. OverLord when they come knocking hand 'em a Full Middle Finger Salute and a Hardy Hi-Ho F[SNIP]KYOU and send 'em on their way.

They are certainly Not going like that all , But, .. .. What are they going to do?

I suspect these tactics are going to continue until they feel they have a "Grasp" on things although that day will Never come.

I do see that people are starting to Not take to kindly to the dealings of the NSA and those who would partake in the elimination of rights and invade privacy as though it were a Drunk Prom Date.

Hopefully those who become targets will stand their ground as well and send a message that ALL of this S[SNIP]T has got to stop.

Remember, .. .. Strength in Numbers.

edit on 20-8-2013 by ShadellacZumbrum because: (no reason given)


+3 more 
posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 11:07 AM
link   
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 



This is the time to proclaim, as loud as we (conspiracy theorists) can, THAT WE WERE RIGHT! And as such, acquiescence is simply not an option. The fight for our most basic rights is on.

This is our time. This is our fight.

all of us


Well, being the boss man, surely you can consider the possibility of departing from your rules and getting a petition together.

Between your ATS, Facebook and Twitter accounts as well as those of your membership it is time to say enough is enough.

It is our fight.

United we can send a clear message that the real enemy IS the US government (or specific controlling elements within).

Time to Break Bad Bro.

Because I for one am sick of this snip...........if not now, when?

If not us, who?



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 11:18 AM
link   
At what point do the people who don't frequent this site, or similar, realize what's happening? Because apparently it's not important enough to stop what they are doing and throw a stone in the cogs. We conspiracy theorists have been right about alot of things and thank God people are paying attention.

Finally our voices will be heard and not ignored (like Dr. Paul has been).
All too funny to say "I told you so".
But we say it to ourselves.
Outsiders rarely listen to anything but what the TV tells them.
Let's hope they start to get the picture.

I fear our voices are getting tired, and maybe that's the object of this game.
The gov't is so relentless and powerful that they just sit back and wait until we die down again.
Like a lion stalking it's wounded prey. Once we lay down, it pounces.
Then the death blow.

99.9% of the people don't realize that without We the people, this gov't is NOTHING.
We feed them, we cloth them.
We support their companies and pay their wages.
We protect them and we provide for them.
We administer their health care and services.
If we decide to shut them down, WE have the power to do so.



The question remains...
When are WE going to do something about it?


Excellent topic, Bill.



edit on 20-8-2013 by havok because: ugh spelling



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 11:28 AM
link   
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


IMO Groklaw shutting down because of email not being secure is silly.

Email has never been secure. EVER!

It's plain text going over the wire.
Anyone with access to a pc, router or network tap on any given network can capture packets and read anything in the clear.

And it's been this way since the creation of email.

If she's this outraged then she needs to be focused on getting the word out on this and educating people about what's going on.
edit on 20-8-2013 by grey580 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 11:47 AM
link   
If these individuals running these companies were being threatened with arrest for not complying with orders to allow access to the email data on their servers, then I don't see what else they could have done but to fold shop. The last Snowden revelation was specifically flagging the use of encryption as a filter in their internet dragnet. How easy would it then be for them to declare that you could be harboring terrorists via your email service and basically knock down the door to access the servers that hold all the information that you, as an entity swore to protect? If you thought that your users' privacy was at extreme risk, then would you leave it sitting there, operational and waiting for that potential day? For Lavabit and SilentMail, the move makes sense. For Groklaw...maybe not much so but it really reads like a self-protective move as somewhere in the comments a person noted that Groklaw used Google. Anyways, that's just how I see it, I guess. If you can't reasonably provide a specific service, then your onus is to your customers to assure that you did all you can to ensure their privacy.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 11:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
I thinks its about time we marched on DC.

Why not just do it instead of just talking about it here on the internet?? The thing is that most of you americans are either cowards, lazy or both. You rather sit in comfort at home instead of actually doing something.
It really amazes me how there has been no protests and even how average joe is pretending everything is the same and that they knew about all this already, even though they called us all crazy just one damn years ago for claiming that our governments are spying on their own civilians.

I wonder what you are waiting for really.. It really cannot get much worse than it is now as we have already reached 1984 level when it comes to surveilance.
edit on 20-8-2013 by juleol because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 11:52 AM
link   
reply to post by grey580
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I think it's way bigger than that. Yes, all of us have realized for years that you shouldn't put anything in an email you wouldn't post on the office bulletin board. Somebody with the keys to your company's email, or someone with a real mind set to find out what was being sent could do so. But until recently, I don't think there was any big concern the government was systematically surveilling everything and anyone 24x7.

We used to have at least a presumption of privacy when it came to the government, and the feds (and locals) used to have to have probable cause and a warrant to violate that privacy. Anything uncovered without said warrant was inadmissible in terms of prosecution.

Now it seems we're all subject to scrutiny, probable cause be damned, and prosecution isn't even the big fear. Due process? Now you just get droned or dropped in a hole or otherwise personally or professionally ruined.

That's the Big Deal, to me.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 11:57 AM
link   
reply to post by grey580
 

This is very different than knowing that your own government is tracking and storing everything.
For all we know they could even have been ordered to hand over some data. If they even share that information that they have been ordered by US government/NSA to hand over data they will be treated like they are the enemy of the state.
This is also why big companies like Microsoft, google and so on refused to tell us the truth, as they would risk severe punishment if they did so.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:02 PM
link   
reply to post by yeahright
 





But until recently, I don't think there was any big concern the government was systematically surveilling everything and anyone 24x7.


Recently? Did you forget about carnivore?
We've known about that since 2000.
This site started talking about carnivore in 03. I don't think this nsa surveillance program was unexpected.

However it certainly is illegal. And I agree it's a big deal.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:04 PM
link   
reply to post by grey580
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

"Recently" is a relative term. For me, 'recently' is anything after Clinton's first term.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by juleol
reply to post by grey580
 

This is very different than knowing that your own government is tracking and storing everything.
For all we know they could even have been ordered to hand over some data. If they even share that information that they have been ordered by US government/NSA to hand over data they will be treated like they are the enemy of the state.
This is also why big companies like Microsoft, google and so on refused to tell us the truth, as they would risk severe punishment if they did so.


The NSA has already shared info with the DEA about drug dealers. And the worst part of that sharing was that the DEA was making up where they got the information. Since they wouldn't of been able to use the information in a court of law. The DEA is very guilty of breaking the law. Tampering with evidence?

Well I don't blame MS and Google. The government is playing games with those NoSuchLetters they send out. If the government tells you not to talk or else. You either don't talk or you move to Brazil or another country with no extradition policy and hold a press conference..



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:15 PM
link   
There was a good article about what to expect in the future from humanity which i was unable to find. However the point was that we will reach a point where we would have to pay to stay anonymous and logged off. I believe this time is already around the corner.
edit on 20-8-2013 by Laxus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:16 PM
link   
reply to post by grey580
 

Or you do like Groklaw and just shutdown the entire business.. I personally respect that better than them handing over information while lying about it like Microsoft and Google is doing now.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:26 PM
link   
I think unfair to criticize Lavabit LLC without understanding the magnitude of the legal trouble they have been pinned into by the government.

Levison has been legally gagged. Would Above Network LLC react with the same resolve to fight a gag order?

He is fighting in the 4th Circuit where Risen from NYT was stripped of his journalistic confidentiality and said he would go to prison if he'd lose appeals. He didn't shy away from a legal challenge.

He already raised 90% of what he made annually within weeks via his PayPal defense fund for the 4th Circuit case he linked from his notice.

Read this highly unusual, off-character news article by

By Michael Isikoff
NBC News National Investigative Correspondent
investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/13/20008036-lavabitcom-owner-i-could-be-arrested-for-resisting-surveillance-order

(...)

Levison said he started Lavabit 10 years ago to capitalize on public concerns about the Patriot Act, offering customers a paid service — between $8 and $16 a year — that would encrypt their emails in ways that would make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for law enforcement agents to decipher. He said that until he shut down, his small company was generating about $100,000 in revenue annually with about 10,000 users paying for the encryption service.

(...)

Levison stressed that he has complied with "upwards of two dozen court orders" for information in the past that were targeted at "specific users" and that "I never had a problem with that." But without disclosing details, he suggested that the order he received more recently was markedly different, requiring him to cooperate in broadly based surveillance that would scoop up information about all the users of his service. He likened the demands to a requirement to install a tap on his telephone. Those demands apparently began about the time that Snowden surfaced as one of his customers, apparently triggering a secret legal battle between Levison and federal prosecutors.

Levison said he has been "threatened with arrest multiple times over the past six weeks," but that he was making a stand on principle: "I think it's important to point out that what prompted me to shut down my service wasn't access to one person's data. It was about protecting the privacy of all my users."

He has also started a legal defense fund and said he's gotten "an overwhelming response," raising more than $90,000 in the past few days. Among those now backing him is former Texas congressman and Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, who told NBC News on Tuesday that Levison's legal battle "should be in the interests of everybody who cares about liberty."
edit on 20-8-2013 by wujotvowujotvowujotvo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by juleol
reply to post by grey580
 

Or you do like Groklaw and just shutdown the entire business.. I personally respect that better than them handing over information while lying about it like Microsoft and Google is doing now.


I don't know man.
Lavabit and Groklaw might be in different situations. I don't know.

Personally. If you feel that passionate about something. You shouldn't go away. You should raise awareness.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:38 PM
link   
How long until these over-reaching paranoid criminals want to control ATS?

Maybe a thread hits a little to close for their comfort. This is not impossible.

Our very Liberty is at stake. They have stepped way over the line.

We must unite. We were born "Free Men" and I intend to die that way.

In History we will be known as the cowards who gave away our Freedom.

All for some food stamps and some crappy Healthcare.

Wake Up America !!!



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:49 PM
link   
Great thread. I am not sure it is cowardly however. I consider it to be a deeply unfair fight. The companies are served and or subpoenaed from secret courts operating under secret laws to the extent the companies cannot even comment on what had transpired. In the case of Lavabit it was basically 2 guys vs the entire resources of the US govt. Do you play a game if the deck is stacked against you and you lose every time? It is very very expensive to take on the US govt. I think they may have done the prudent thing and saved thier money.. The fact is at this point the US govt will go to any length to punish people invved in this. Examples? Forcing the President of Boliva or Honduras plane down. Detaining the reporter from NY times for hours( she is now subject to enhanced security screening every time she goes anywhere) it is affecting her job and her ability under the Constitution to have freedoms that are guareenteed her as a member of the media... Taking the gear she was using... GCHQ detaining Greebwalds partner for 9 hours. Taking all his electronic devices. Etc...

It is a unfair fight that it does not surprise me many people do not want to attempt. Lets examine some of the ways the owner of Lavabit could be harassed.. He could suddenly be audited. He could have to pay extreme lawyer fees to take on Govt. He could be trailed.. His phones or computers hacked. He could be harassed and blacklisted. He might have ended up dead like Hastings did.

I posted much of this information in a earlier thread. I am using a service called enlocked for email. It is free and easy to use. It is not perfect but it encrypts email.. Why make it easy for them? I am not hiding anything at all it is the point. I hate feeling like I am being watched.

Because of my blog and many topics I have written about I fully expect that even I will be subject to enhanced screening at any airport now. It is worth the price to me so far.. There may come a point that it isnt.

I would very much argue Skeptic you have it backwards... It is the actions of the United States Government which are actually cowardly. They are trying to bully and intimidate people.. So far it's working.

www.enlocked.com...
edit on 20-8-2013 by GArnold because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-8-2013 by GArnold because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-8-2013 by GArnold because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-8-2013 by GArnold because: (no reason given)





new topics
top topics
 
132
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join