China Takes Aim at Western Ideas

Originally posted by ForteanOrg

Originally posted by Mads1987
But I completely agree with you. We really need to figure out a way to unite mankind.

Weird to see an ATS member in favour of the NWO

Haha - I guess its not a very common sight around here.
But yes, I am in favor of a united mankind, however that man be a bit utopian. So I rather think of it, as working towards creating a non exclusive society, in which everybody can co-exist harmoniously. My big interest being in finding a system which has the ability to create consensus between people, understanding, peace etc. I do however not approve of any kind of totalitarian regime - so 'submission' should be voluntary. Totalitarianism is very counter-productive when harmony is your end goal.
Either way, my conclusion is that science, and the application of science in politics, is the only chance mankind has to create a better world - and yes, I do wish for a new world (order).

Originally posted by Mads1987
Haha - I guess its not a very common sight around here.

No, it isn't.

I do however not approve of any kind of totalitarian regime - so 'submission' should be voluntary. Totalitarianism is very counter-productive when harmony is your end goal.

Hence I'm an anarchist: there is nothing to submit to. However, anarchy can only work if here is order, order can only be created if all obey a certain set of rules (on which they all should agree). It takes enlightened beings, people that can think and realise the power of cooperation.

Either way, my conclusion is that science, and the application of science in politics, is the only chance mankind has to create a better world - and yes, I do wish for a new world (order).

Ah, yes. I guess you like the Venus project then, don't you?

reply to post by neo96


“Constitutionalism belongs only to capitalism,” said one commentary in the overseas edition of the People’s Daily. Constitutionalism “is a weapon for information and psychological warfare used by the magnates of American monopoly capitalism and their proxies in China to subvert China’s socialist system,” said another commentary in the paper.

The reality is the there are both two sides of the same devalued coin. Ultimately the consciousness of the peole all over the planet is going to cause these two systems to implode. Because someday a lot of people are just going to stop believing in these things are they are just going to walk away and we will get to watch it collapse. It isn't going to be fast and it isn't going to be pretty, but it is inevitble.

The history of communist countries, is that eventually they come to an end, and a new political system emerges. Could be democratic, fascist, oligarchy, etc etc...... As history tells us, no kingdom/nation lasts for ever....

U.S. its on its way out as well, its a corporate fascist oligarchy now, under the so-called impression that's its not

reply to post by ForteanOrg


I don't dislike the Venus project. I am familiar with it and have enjoyed hearing Jacque Fresco point of view a few times. But I generally find their approach to be to theoretical. They seem to jump straight to the utopian scenario where everyone wears white linen clothes. I am more concerned with " where to begin" or "what's the next step". Thus far my big concern has been dissemination - how does one go about talking about these things without scaring people away, generally how does one creates awareness on a subject.

ATS has been a great training ground.

reply to post by neo96


White is symbolic of spiritual purity.

What is fine dishware called?

China.

What color is it?

White.

Pornography is illegal in China. You didn't see any pink teddy bear meteors take out a bunch of microsoft windows in China did you? Chelyabinsk didn't have any windows left.

It's illegal to make pornography available to minors and yet I've had Masons in my family threaten me with spanking for making pornography available to minors.

China is probably a lot more sane than you think.

Christians get all caught up in the grace thing here. But China is probably a more adequate representation of heaven. It's rules and regulations. When was the last time you heard of a Chinese man taking a hatchet to his kids after downloading child porn and submitting to a cult that says that its okay to manipulate 14 year olds into marriage by prophets whose prophecies don't come true.

China doesn't tolerate cults, but they do tolerate Christianity, but not porn. Pornography rings are punishable by death in China.

When the battle of Armageddon is fought the Bible says that God will decimate those forces. What will he do that with? I suspect that it will be the Kings of the East, the 200 million man army all holding white china dish plates who will accomplish this task.

Not the Benny Hinns, not the David Koresh's, not tongue speakers, or snake handling Pentacostals, but rational Chinese men who don't tolerate religious nonsense that promotes rape and other nonsense.

The Chinese will cross the recently dried up rivers of the Tigris and the Euphrates as prophecied in the bible and make a quick end of this nonsense in the eastern mediteranean shores of Syria and Israel and Egypt.

We're heading into a future of universal values and global culture. I actually see less diversity in our future on Earth due to increasing information and transportation technologies reducing the distances between people. The world is being wired up and interconnected and united, slowly. Every divisive element will slowly be blunted and ridiculed. We will all be absorbed into the global collective.

But then people will go off Earth and we'll be right back where we started. People on the Moon or on an asteroid or on Mars will not be as easily controlled and will start to separate. Just as people fled to North America for the frontier to erect a new (and free) country. I think many people who might colonize Mars will naturally be the kind of people who cherish the freedom to excel and prosper.

There might also be disabled people living in virtual realities with their own forms of virtual government. Depending on their connections to the real world, they may or may not be controlled. The more strongly connected to the real world, the greater the need for law and order is. So for those people who're disabled and want to be separate they'll turn to virtual reality to escape. It's possible new kinds of services or products will emerge to add value to virtual citizens. Either way, I don't think people living in virtual societies will have much influence in the real world.

I think people have a need to be different to reaffirm their identity. And this need is served by pushing the boundaries and breaking free from old customs and old lands where they were previously bound. This expresses itself when people sailed to North America to establish a new life and when they made/make virtual societies and when they'll travel into space and colonize other places outside Earth. People need a frontier to expand onto just as they need water or oxygen.

reply to post by neo96


Hong Kong is quite separate from mainland China.

second

Well while China is shooting for their freedom, our government is doing the complete opposite. The irony if it all.

Originally posted by Mads1987
reply to post by ForteanOrg

 

But I generally find their approach to be to theoretical. They seem to jump straight to the utopian scenario where everyone wears white linen clothes.

Haha, yes, that strikes a chord here

I am more concerned with " where to begin" or "what's the next step". Thus far my big concern has been dissemination - how does one go about talking about these things without scaring people away, generally how does one creates awareness on a subject.

I like it when people choose the path of graduality, like you do. Revolutions should be prevented if possible. I am an anarchist myself, but do not expect to see the realisation of my dream during my lifetime. But indeed, you should discuss your ideas - not only because they may help others to learn from you, but also they may help you rethink your views. Good. In the end we WILL unite, I'm sure, though it will take a few generations.

ATS has been a great training ground.

Indeed.

Originally posted by CatherineWheel
reply to post by neo96

 

Pornography is illegal in China. [...] It's illegal to make pornography available to minors [...] making pornography available [...] downloading child porn [...] tolerate Christianity, but not porn. Pornography rings [...]

You seem to be obsessed by porn..

For some reason I am totally unconcerned with China. Probably because I believe their entire economy is based on falsification of records. Also, their military hasen't ever ventured outside their own little corner of Asia. I'll believe they are a global force for whatever when I see it. Until then, they're all just whores to the U.S. Dollar.

reply to post by CatherineWheel



Lurker for many years, never signed up before, yada yada yada...

I've read comments on this article on multiple sites and I was going to bite my tongue.

But this post from CatherineWheel was the last straw. I do apologize in advance for the seemingly spontaneous ranting.

When the focus is on the States, the NSA or what not, I rarely see some people trying to defend it by pointing to the surveillance state in China. But when the focus shifts to China, many seem SO apologetic to the ruthless regime! Seriously, what is that? We are in a battle in fighting for our human rights, many of us, where ever we may be located. Let's not help the persecutors by defending (in this case) the Chinese communist party (CCP).. By pointing to the U.S. or to the 5000 years old Chinese culture and history. China's 5000 year old culture does not explain away the Communist Party, The CCP even tried to eliminate their rich culture in the cultural revolution!

Anyway, to the comment:

China is probably a lot more sane than you think. ... China doesn't tolerate cults, but they do tolerate Christianity

First of all, "China" what? The people? Their culture? Or their ruthless regime that controls the media?

Underground" Roman Catholic clergy faced repression, in large part due to their avowed loyalty to the Vatican, which the Government accused of interfering in the country's internal affairs. The Government continued to repress groups that it designated as "cults," which included several Christian groups.

The problem is, The Chinese communist party is a dictatorship defining what is a “cult”. Also declared atheistic, although the characteristic of the CCP is exactly in line with a dogmatic violent cult, (statue of Mao, the number one mass murderer in history, built in the year 2008 emphizes the great charismatic leader and the dogma that all power comes from violence etc.) which tolerates nothing it perceives as a potential threat to their regime or their dogmatic teachings:

The Government restricts legal religious practice to government-sanctioned organizations and registered religious groups and places of worship, through the Three-Self Patriotic Movement, and seeks to control the growth and scope of the activity of both registered and unregistered religious groups, including "house churches."

-wiki

It's a battle for the minds of the people, all ideologies must submit to the party's dogma.

A good example of how the CCP abuses the “cult” label, or a "heretical organization", is the persecuted Falun Gong people, which is a peaceful spiritual discipline which focuses on Truth, Compassion and Forbearance, looking inwards, meditating, improving one's moral character etc.:

On 20 July 1999, the Communist Party leadership initiated a nationwide crackdown and multifaceted propaganda campaign intended to eradicate the practice. In October 1999 it declared Falun Gong a "heretical organization" that threatened social stability, and blocked Internet access to websites that mention Falun Gong. Human rights groups report that Falun Gong practitioners in China are subject to a wide range of human rights abuses; hundreds of thousands are believed to have been imprisoned extrajudicially, and practitioners in detention are subject to forced labor, psychiatric abuse, torture, and other coercive methods of thought reform at the hands of Chinese authorities. In the years since the suppression campaign began, Falun Gong adherents have emerged as a prominent voice in the Chinese dissident community, advocating for greater human rights and an end to Communist Party rule

-wiki

take notice of "methods of thought reform", a.k.a. brainwashing in the must basic sense, in so-called re-education centers and in the process the Chinese Communist Party reveals itself as force of deception, violence and tolerating nothing that will not submit to the party their most private believes:

In 1995, Chinese authorities began looking to Falun Gong to solidify its organizational structure and ties to the party-state.[37] Li [teacher of Falun Gong] was approached by the ... Ministry of Public Health, and ... to jointly establish a Falun Gong association. Li declined the offer. The same year, the CQRS issued a new regulation mandating that all qigong denominations establish a Communist Party branch. Li again refused.[1]

-wiki

That was the beginning of the persecution!

My point is: The CCP claims ownership over the spiritual believes of citizens in China. Let's not underscore the degree of the tyrannical dictatorship there people.

Originally posted by VenatioAgon

reply to post by CatherineWheel

 

Lurker for many years, never signed up before, yada yada yada...

I've read comments on this article on multiple sites and I was going to bite my tongue.

But this post from CatherineWheel was the last straw. I do apologize in advance for the seemingly spontaneous ranting.

When the focus is on the States, the NSA or what not, I rarely see some people trying to defend it by pointing to the surveillance state in China. But when the focus shifts to China, many seem SO apologetic to the ruthless regime! Seriously, what is that? We are in a battle in fighting for our human rights, many of us, where ever we may be located. Let's not help the persecutors by defending (in this case) the Chinese communist party (CCP).. By pointing to the U.S. or to the 5000 years old Chinese culture and history. China's 5000 year old culture does not explain away the Communist Party, The CCP even tried to eliminate their rich culture in the cultural revolution!
....

China is probably a lot more sane than you think. ... China doesn't tolerate cults, but they do tolerate Christianity

First of all, "China" what? The people? Their culture? Or their ruthless regime that controls the media?

Underground" Roman Catholic clergy faced repression, in large part due to their avowed loyalty to the Vatican, which the Government accused of interfering in the country's internal affairs. The Government continued to repress groups that it designated as "cults," which included several Christian groups.

The problem is, The Chinese communist party is a dictatorship defining what is a “cult”. Also declared atheistic, although the characteristic of the CCP is exactly in line with a dogmatic violent cult, (statue of Mao, the number one mass murderer in history, built in the year 2008 emphizes the great charismatic leader and the dogma that all power comes from violence etc.) which tolerates nothing it perceives as a potential threat to their regime or their dogmatic teachings:
....

A good example of how the CCP abuses the “cult” label, or a "heretical organization", is the persecuted Falun Gong people, which is a peaceful spiritual discipline which focuses on Truth, Compassion and Forbearance, looking inwards, meditating, improving one's moral character etc.:

On 20 July 1999, the Communist Party leadership initiated a nationwide crackdown and multifaceted propaganda campaign intended to eradicate the practice. In October 1999 it declared Falun Gong a "heretical organization" that threatened social stability, and blocked Internet access to websites that mention Falun Gong. Human rights groups report that Falun Gong practitioners in China are subject to a wide range of human rights abuses; hundreds of thousands are believed to have been imprisoned extrajudicially, and practitioners in detention are subject to forced labor, psychiatric abuse, torture, and other coercive methods of thought reform at the hands of Chinese authorities. In the years since the suppression campaign began, Falun Gong adherents have emerged as a prominent voice in the Chinese dissident community, advocating for greater human rights and an end to Communist Party rule

-wiki

take notice of "methods of thought reform", a.k.a. brainwashing in the must basic sense, in so-called re-education centers and in the process the Chinese Communist Party reveals itself as force of deception, violence and tolerating nothing that will not submit to the party their most private believes:

In 1995, Chinese authorities began looking to Falun Gong to solidify its organizational structure and ties to the party-state.[37] Li [teacher of Falun Gong] was approached by the ... Ministry of Public Health, and ... to jointly establish a Falun Gong association. Li declined the offer. The same year, the CQRS issued a new regulation mandating that all qigong denominations establish a Communist Party branch. Li again refused.[1]

-wiki

....
My point is: The CCP claims ownership over the spiritual beliefs of citizens in China. Let's not underscore the degree of the tyrannical dictatorship there people.

Unfortunately, I'm limited to only giving you one star, I would give you several if I could. Excellent post.

Of course, they went after Falun Gong. It empowers the INDIVIDUAL, something they cannot tolerate. It's too dangerous to allow the proliferation of individuals who can think for themselves, who know methods to negate their brainwashing, and who know how to circumvent even their physical imprisonment.

Originally posted by CatherineWheel
reply to post by neo96

 

When was the last time you heard of a Chinese man taking a hatchet to his kids after downloading child porn and submitting to a cult that says that its okay to manipulate 14 year olds into marriage by prophets whose prophecies don't come true.

edit on 20-8-2013 by CatherineWheel because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-8-2013 by CatherineWheel because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-8-2013 by CatherineWheel because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-8-2013 by CatherineWheel because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-8-2013 by CatherineWheel because: (no reason given)

I'd just like to point out that the Chinese state run media would likely not be reporting something like this. The CCP believes they are creating a utopia and any negative news, such as your example, is going to be swept under the rug.

Remember Andrei Chikatilo in Russia? Killed like 53 people and it was largely kept out of the media, so as to not make the party look bad.

Everywhere you go on planet Earth, people are people. I'm sure there are more than a few weirdos over there, just like here, Europe, South America, the Middle East and everywhere else human beings live.

Well, before I hit reply I did a quick Wikipedia search and here's what I came up with for Chinese serial killers:

People's Republic of China

Gong Runbo: found guilty of the murders of six children and teenagers aged between nine and 16 from 2005 to 2006; executed 2007
Huang Yong: between September 2001 and 2003 killed at least 17 teenage boys; executed in 2003
Shen Changyin and Shen Changping: found guilty of the murders of 11 prostitutes
Yang Xinhai: confessed to killing 65 people between 2000 and 2003; executed in 2004
Zhang Yongming: between March 2008 and April 2012 killed 11; executed in 2013
Zhou Kehua.: A former soldier who targeted ATM users. He killed 10 people and evaded the law for 8 years, before being shot in a shootout with police after a year-long manhunt

here's the link

reply to post by neo96


what role will China play in Syrian conflict? I've read that China has strong interest in Syria

Originally posted by farhad
reply to post by neo96

 

what role will China play in Syrian conflict? I've read that China has strong interest in Syria

Banker.

Arms supplier

Pretty much what they have always done, just never gets talked about.