Surah Qiyamah(The Resurrection)

reply to post by logical7


An answer to those verses there. 72 and 73.

The book of Malachi puts the hierarchy of Heaven as this. The Lord of Hosts. The Lord. And the 2 messengers in that order. See Malachi 3-1. However this is what John 1-1 says.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And John 10-30
I and my Father are one.

Essentially the Lord, or Jesus Christ is a part of the Lord of Hosts. Your dealing with a God here. A supreme being. What that is specifically may be in a form that simply cannot be explained to a average human. But per the book it appears that this being has the ability to separate into 2 discrete beings. So technically worshiping Jesus Christ is not a violation of verse 72.

Verse 73. There seems to be some confusion as to what is the Trinity consists of. But if God can fracture into 2 separate beings then a third may be possible. It also appears to be a matter of semantics. God has many names. Holy Ghost appears to be a reference to the dead and risen Jesus Christ. So see above. Verse 73 might have a point. It's not 3 it's 2. With a name taken out of context. We may have to wait and ask him when he reappears.

As for the rest of it it appears he was a messenger to the world then in the first century AD. But what was supposed to happen was broken and delayed by 2000 years. He's clearly much more than what Mohammad gives him credit for.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by ntech

 

The Judgement Day and Apocalypse are not the same.
I am not having much knowledge about the Christians idea.
Prophet Muhammad pbuh talked about a Malhama(A great war) before the return of Christ. The Judgement Day would be a later event.

When Jesus pbuh came the 1st time the Jews rejected him and he was raised up back.
Therefore the Jews are still waiting for their Messiah.
This place would be filled by a man who would claim this and would even do miracles but in reality he would be the Anti-Christ.
Jesus pbuh would come down and destroy that AC and establish a kingdom of peace and prosperity for a duration.

Well to go through your questions sequentially. These are my views and not essentially mainstream Christianity's. But I know things that they don't however.


Judgment day. Will occur sometime after the year 3000. Also known as the White Throne Judgment. Essentially the sinners and the saints meet their final rewards. And God and the saints move on to the New Jerusalem and New Earth. The old one destroyed in fire. See Revelation 20-23. And 2 Peter 3.

The Apocalypse. That is a big subject. It's the period of time before Judgment day. Here's how I see it.

The Apocalypse started back in the 300-500 BC era with the start of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 prophecy. 70 weeks of years or 490 years were laid on the Jews. But there is also 2 breaks in the prophecy. At the 7 week or 49th year point and at the 69th or 483 week of the curse. Now here comes the big problem. This curse was supposed to have been taken care of in the first century AD. But something happened that needed to be dealt with first. And what happened was the curse of Malachi was triggered.

The quick and dirty on that is the first century Apocalypse was supposed to have had 4 messiahs appear. According to Malachi the Lord, Elijah the Prophet, and the two messengers were supposed to appear. But according to Matthew 17 Elijah the Prophet as John the Baptist was killed by Herod at the behest of Salome and her mother. Who were related to a High Priest. And that triggered the curse for Elijah the prophet apparently had a major role to fill.

So working out the details in the book of Hosea and the day of Jezreel prophecy it turns out this is a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse. So technically it should end in the 2020s.

So far the time line is the first 69 weeks ended in the 25 to 30 AD region and the curse of Malachi took over from that. Pushing out the final 7 years to the 2020s approximately. The end of days as Daniel puts it. The final 70th week. However there is also another time span to be aware of. The "generation" of Matthew 24.

Per the prophecy end time events are to considered as leaves on a fig tree in the spring. And the problem is that a nation of Israel appeared on the world scene in May 1948. A reinstated nation of Israel is implied in the Bible as a major end time event. Clearly the generation started on or before that day. And after the end of WW2 as implied by verse 6. And per Psalms 90-10 it could be 70 to 80 years long. So the last possible date for the Apocalypse to end and the 1000 year reign of the saints to start is May 2028. Or August of 2025 in the other direction.

And that puts the start of the 7 year agreement of Daniel 9 at 2018 to 2021 and the Antichrist/Dajjel at 2021 to 2024. As the 3rd king of the kingdom of the north of Daniel 11. A reincarnation of Ancient Rome taking on the reincarnation of Ancient Persia.

Also at the end of that war it appear there is a short period of 45 days of literally hell on earth where most of what's left of the Antichrist's subjects and possessions are destroyed. Satan is shut up in the pit. And then the first resurrection occurs.

Things to watch for now? And details I haven't covered yet.

Continued.

Originally posted by ntech
reply to post by logical7

 

An answer to those verses there. 72 and 73.

The book of Malachi puts the hierarchy of Heaven as this. The Lord of Hosts. The Lord. And the 2 messengers in that order. See Malachi 3-1. However this is what John 1-1 says.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And John 10-30
I and my Father are one.

Essentially the Lord, or Jesus Christ is a part of the Lord of Hosts. Your dealing with a God here. A supreme being. What that is specifically may be in a form that simply cannot be explained to a average human. But per the book it appears that this being has the ability to separate into 2 discrete beings. So technically worshiping Jesus Christ is not a violation of verse 72.

Verse 73. There seems to be some confusion as to what is the Trinity consists of. But if God can fracture into 2 separate beings then a third may be possible. It also appears to be a matter of semantics. God has many names. Holy Ghost appears to be a reference to the dead and risen Jesus Christ. So see above. Verse 73 might have a point. It's not 3 it's 2. With a name taken out of context. We may have to wait and ask him when he reappears.

As for the rest of it it appears he was a messenger to the world then in the first century AD. But what was supposed to happen was broken and delayed by 2000 years. He's clearly much more than what Mohammad gives him credit for.

Lord of Hosts just mean Lord of Armies, its just a way to say God.

Jesus pbuh also said that the disciples are all one in him, so does that mean that they also share divinity?
If he gets that blame by saying I and my Father are one.

It just means that one in will as he submitted to God, just like the disciples submitted to God and obeyed him.

John was written/altered when the corruption of divinity being attributed to Jesus pbuh was already prevalant and the copies show that the scribes tried to make him appear divine by trying to remove parts that made him look too human etc. If the book(gospel) comes after a belief then it cannot be taken as prove for the same belief.

Surah 3
79. It is not (possible) for any human being to whom Allah has
given the Book and Al-Hukma
(the knowledge and
understanding of the laws of
religion, etc.) and Prophethood
to say to the people: "Be my worshippers rather than
Allah's." On the contrary (he
would say): "Be you Rabbaniyun
(learned men of religion who
practise what they know and
also preach others), because you are teaching the Book, and
you are studying it."

80. Nor would he order you to take angels and Prophets for
lords (gods). Would he order you to disbelieve after you have
submitted to Allah's Will?

reply to post by ntech


You asked about the Jewish messiah. There's a problem there. Jesus Christ is supposed to return but. Somebody is supposed to precede him. Per the books of Malachi and Zechariah the Lord has two messengers/branches. Normally he has a posse. But one never showed up in the first century AD. Also in Zechariah it is prophesied that each branch is to build a temple. Clearly the 2nd one is to precede Jesus Christ and rebuild the Jewish temple. The Jews call the guy the Ben Joseph messiah. And Christianity has him as the 2nd witness of Revelation. The first being the other branch who was there to build the 2nd temple back in the BC era.

Also something that has to happen according to prophecy is the Gog-Magog attack of Ezekiel 38 and 39. Apparently Israel faces a major overwhelming attack from Russia and middle eastern nations in the latter days. And God himself steps in at the last second and 5/6th of this army is destroyed. If this Ben Joseph messiah shows up then this sounds quite likely.

Also would the Ben Joseph and the Madhi be the same person?

And another detail to worry about. Put simply some bible prophesies have multiple fulfillments. And the prophesies of Daniel look very suspicious at present. According to my checklist he predicted 9-11 and Afghanistan and Iraq being conquered. Leaving event 4 on the list as next up. And that appears to be Persia being conquered. And event 5 could be a consequence of Gog-Magog. The destruction of a number of nations in the world.

reply to post by logical7


Ok, then.

Genesis 18.
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

Daniel 10
4 And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Hiddekel;
5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

Daniel 12
5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

How can the Lord swear on himself? Or he is swearing on a higher power than himself?

Daniel 7
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

The Son of Man and the Ancient of Days as 2 separate beings.

Mark 2-28
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

He is claiming to be the Son of Man. A being that exists in Daniel and precedes Jesus Christ by 500 years approximately. It would appear that while Judaism doesn't care about the issue it does appear that "God" may have existed as multiple beings in the Jewish Torah.

I'd say the question is open. Also one thing that the Quran does not take into account is if Jesus Christ was also possessed by God. It that was the case then technically he is God and he can make those statements.

And this.

Matthew 27
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Did the spirit of God leave his body just before his death? And was he feeling it for those last couple of minutes?

And one last thing. There is that curse still running. According to Isaiah 6 you're really not supposed to know all the details.

9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate'
12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

reply to post by ntech


Prophet Muhammad pbuh had said that the history/fate of the two nations(the jewish people and the ummah of Muhammad pbuh) would be as similar as the two shoes are similar.
So there would be a large scale persecution of muslims which already started with the afghan war.

Prophet Muhammad pbuh also told

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: (The Prophet)
said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and
our yemen." People said, "Our Najd
as well." The Prophet again said, "O
Allah! Bless our Sham and yemen."
They said again, "Our Najd as well." On that the Prophet said, "There will
appear earthquakes and afflictions,
and from there will come out the side
of the head of Satan." (Book #17,
Hadith #147, Bukhari) It can be deduced from the above
Hadith that Najd is neither blessed
nor a good place but one of Fitna
and Evil. Najd has been deprived of
the prayers of the Holy Prophet (Sallal
Laahu Alaihi Wasallam) and therefore Najd has the seal of misery and
misfortune and hoping for any good
from there is going against the Will of
Allah. The Arabic word used in the above
Hadith is Qarnush Shaitaan, which
normally means the horn of Shaitaan.
But the 'Misbahul Lughaat', a
dictionary printed in Deoband has
the following meaning: "One who follows the advice of
Shaitaan."

the present rulers of Saudi Arabia are from Najd.
And they are allies of Israel.

Also Quran forbids from being allies with the judeo-christian zionist alliance.

So what i feel is that the Anti-Christ would appear in Israel and claim to be God.