Obama Has Blown Half Of Obamacare's Legal Deadlines

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by lernmore

 

Stop making yourself cry already, manipulating people through emotion is just insulting.

The whole thing needs to be re-thought, and not just the parts they're trying to leave that obliterate the middle class.

atually it is the op that is manipulating people,
and by omitting the real victims (Americans who are sick)

he is just opportunistically using the suffering of others to make political points

it sickining that he did not even mention those who will go without medicine while this plays out,

this thread is not about love or light,
it is about hate.

xploder

i did'nt know "love" was forcing the poor to pay a "tax" via threat of Imprisonment on there healthcare. What about those that cant afford this new tax? I dont even know how im going to afford this new tax, were already on the edge of the cliff as it is.

Me and my wife chose not to pay heathcare. We roll the dice and save money. Yes if we get sick, we're screwed but we're young and dont get sick. NOW im forced to pay for Insurance I don’t want!

reply to post by XPLodER

atually it is the op that is manipulating people,
and by omitting the real victims (Americans who are sick)

he is just opportunistically using the suffering of others to make political points

You're doing fine. And so is the schlock Obama Administration.

These 'delays' and bureaucratic boondoggles are making the problem, not me.

Thanks for the 'political points' you have added !!

it sickining that he did not even mention those who will go without medicine while this plays out,

Where in ObamaCare are drugs exclusively covered ?

I actually don't know. Honest.

I thought that was up to 'employers' to include a package with a co-pay ?

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by XPLodER

 

What is this today ? Old home week or something ?

I ask again.....

What good has the Obama Administration done for the 'weak and sick' ?

We have had Medicaid in all 50 States plus the Territories for decades

.

Where's the beef ?

The entire Obama Administration is a sloppy schlock operation.

ObamaCare is no exception to the corruption either !!

you did not even mention the "human element" of this op,
weather by accident or not,
you did not mention the people harmed by this slow roll out,

that gets my heckles up!!!!

do you even care about the effect of this on people?
enough to change the op and mention them?

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

who is suffering Exactly? Im a little lost on this...

the only people i see suffering are the poor who are forced to pay for this dang thing.

pretending to be blind to the problems of others is shocking,
we watch from our little country and ask "how can people be so cruel to each other?

we see the thousands of people lining up for health care payed for from donations world wide so that americans can have eye glasses,
so that americans can have dental operations

our little country "gives" charity to you big powerful country so people can be healthy
its a tiny amout of money we give, we are not the richest nation on earth!

if other countrys care enough to give to THE PEOPLE who are suffering,
money from their own pockets,

why not you?

you only see money,
i see the change in life for a person who needs care,

wake up greed is not going to fix your problems.

if i can donate to caring for americans,
you can at least pretend to care about americans

pffft

xploder

What little money we have we donate to the church that provides for the needy. We don’t need government to help us.

reply to post by XPLodER

wake up greed is not going to fix your problems.

Really??? Who is greedy? The people whom understand our country is already broke? The people whom understand that Obamacare is nothing more than a carefully crafted plan to "transfer wealth" to those whom are already wealthy????

Try asking all of our doctors in the US whom are retiring if they are doing it because they want too or because they are being forced too!!!

Try addressing the panel of executioners whom have no medical background whatsoever whom are in charge of saying whether or not your elderly parents deserve to live or die because of their age.........regardless of what your doctor wants to do to keep them alive!

Damn man, you call those whom are opposed to corrupt politicians greedy?

You are either being willfully ignorant, or perhaps you are a member of the "Obama Truth Squad"?

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by lernmore

 

he is just opportunistically using the suffering of others to make political points

this thread is not about love or light,
it is about hate.

xploder

OK I'm suffering now.
What hate?

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by XPLodER

 

I wonder if there isn't another way to look at this. I don't think anyone is happy that people are suffering, and they are. It's not just health insurance, but it's the economy, privacy, our overseas relations, just about everywhere.

i agree, we need to do SOMETHING,

I also think everybody would be cheering on any rescue, but isn't the question is this a rescue?

the insurance companies own washington, big pharma owns washington,
this is not the optimal design for health care, but with all the power to make decisions in the hands of lobbyists,
this is what was passed,

to squander the opportunity because of politics is heartless.
make obama care work!!!!! change the bits that are profiteering and cruel.

People, organizations, government employees, cities, and entire states are being granted modifications to, or exemptions from, this law. After three years to prepare for it, the government which fought so hard for it is saying it can't possibly work, maybe later, after the next elections.

the political class are bought and payed for,
but i must point out that for the people who are suffering,
they dont really care is it is politically corrupt,
they want to live and be better regardless of how that comes about
lets not forget this debate involves the LIVES of people,
it is not JUST ABOUT POLITICS

The latest estimates I've seen indicate that 30 million will still be uncovered after the law is activated. And there will be fewer physicians to treat them. Many are saying that the new requirements will mean that paperwork will consume up to half or 2/3 of their work day, and they want out.

a flawed approach is better than what has been going on up till now.
fix the problems "on the fly"

I think the point is that it is becoming more clear that this plan is unworkable, and as soon as we can toss it and start again we can begin a real rescue.

if the political establishment had not been so heavy handed in protecting the profits of big pharma and big insurance, you would have a real working system like ours here,

pharma and insurance is too powerful to ignore,
if you want a better deal or a different option,

take money out of politics and try again,
other wise this gastly system is an improvement for more than it inconveniences

xploder

reply to post by camaro68ss

i did'nt know "love" was forcing the poor to pay a "tax" via threat of Imprisonment on there healthcare. What about those that cant afford this new tax? I dont even know how im going to afford this new tax, were already on the edge of the cliff as it is.

you fear going over "the cliff",
i ask "what about those who have already feel of the cliff?

Me and my wife chose not to pay heathcare. We roll the dice and save money. Yes if we get sick, we're screwed but we're young and dont get sick. NOW im forced to pay for Insurance I don’t want!

i hope you never get sick,
i cant give you an easy answer,

but if you did get sick would you want help?

xploder

reply to post by camaro68ss

What little money we have we donate to the church that provides for the needy. We don’t need government to help us.

bless you for your charity and human caring


there are many not so fortunate as you,
if every body gave what they could afford there would be no need for obama care!!!

thank you
respect

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Obamacare is a government issued Monopoly forced to increase the cost of heathcare to line the pockets of the Politicians. If you dont believe me, follow the money.

finance.yahoo.com...=unh;range=5y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off ;source=undefined;

reply to post by seeker1963

Really??? Who is greedy? The people whom understand our country is already broke? The people whom understand that Obamacare is nothing more than a carefully crafted plan to "transfer wealth" to those whom are already wealthy????

money over life?
should we stop sending our donations to the american charities?
thats transferring wealth from my country to yours,
THE RICHEST NATION ON EARTH

Try asking all of our doctors in the US whom are retiring if they are doing it because they want too or because they are being forced too!!!

take the power away from lobbyists,
they own your politicians, they are not working in your interests,
remove money from politics and inact something that works!!

Try addressing the panel of executioners whom have no medical background whatsoever whom are in charge of saying whether or not your elderly parents deserve to live or die because of their age.........regardless of what your doctor wants to do to keep them alive!

while i dont subscribe to your death panels idea, havnt seen any proof of this claim,
i think that people have no or little choice now, and more choice later,
so................... i see any improvement on the status qo
as a good thing.

Damn man, you call those whom are opposed to corrupt politicians greedy?

no im saying if those with means helped those without, there would be no need to mandate this at all,
but the rich are greedy and therefore must be compelled to do the right thing.

You are either being willfully ignorant, or perhaps you are a member of the "Obama Truth Squad"?

i have already stated,
i dont like obama care, but its better than what was happening.
ie people left to die

i can disagree with the presentation of the op without being the "Obama Truth Squad"

if the op had even mentioned ONCE the people this effects,
i would have read the thread and not posted,
i would have moved on to another thread and read that.

but no the op did not mention the suffering this legislation was designed to adress,
so here i am

xploder

Originally posted by camaro68ss
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Obamacare is a government issued Monopoly forced to increase the cost of heathcare to line the pockets of the Politicians. If you dont believe me, follow the money.

finance.yahoo.com...=unh;range=5y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off ;source=undefined;

edit on 19-8-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

i actually agree with you,
but if you think that greedy corrupt politicans should be an excuse to do nothing you are wrong.
we send money to charities in american to help americans,
not to pay for corrupt politicans,

see if you gave to the doctors working free for materials and medicine,
there would be little need for obama care,

from here it looks like you dont care.
funney thing is if 10% of your population actually gaive to charities,

the poor would not have to need obama care.

i see it as a lack of charity forcing a political action.

xploder

reply to post by xuenchen


I was unaware you were so pro-Obamacare! Your post history would suggest otherwise...

Anywho, why so bent out of shape about the deadlines? Aren't you one of the ones crowing about defunding and repealing? If it's defunded then it won't meet any deadlines and thus, won't be in effect. You should be ecstatic that this is happening! Or did I misinterpret your OP?

reply to post by XPLodER

Dear XPLodER,

Wonderful! Now I'm willing to start marching with you shoulder to shoulder. Let me touch on the non-political side of this first.

I'm willing to give everybody the benefit of the doubt here and assume that Obamacare was designed to actually get medical care into the hands of nearly everybody, whether they could afford it or not, as a purely humanitarian gesture. (Many, of course, don't agree, but for my purposes, let it stand for now.)

to squander the opportunity because of politics is heartless. make obama care work!!!!! change the bits that are profiteering and cruel.

they dont really care is it is politically corrupt, they want to live and be better regardless of how that comes about

a flawed approach is better than what has been going on up till now. fix the problems "on the fly"

And you'll find me marching with you. Obamacare is flawed, it has to be fixed, and the longer it takes to fix it, the longer people will suffer. So, let's get started on fixing it right away. Just about everyone expressing an opinion on the subject says the plan is flawed, as has been pointed out they just can't get it to work in three years, and more problems, like those of the "navigators," seem to be popping up every week. There are any number of Doctors' organizations and think tanks which have pointed out obvious flaws, let's change Obamacare to fix those.

Now we get to the problem, the political side.

For all the talk about the insurance companies owning Washington, they couldn't get a single Republican in either house to vote for it. This is a Democrat law, and has been hailed as Obama's greatest achievement. I will march with you to the gates of the White House, shouting "Obamacare needs to be fixed, now. We need to amend the law to fix the problems in it." Granted, that's a long slogan to shout, but you get my point. What response will we get from the Democrat President and Senate?

So, if we aren't going to have the opportunity to fix it, which we both believe it needs, we face a tough choice. We either have to reject it or accept it as it stands, without repairs.

You say the inconveniences are outweighed by the benefits. Many people don't accept that. But, whatever side you're on, it's not going to be significantly repaired in the next three years.

That three years is an interesting figure. That's how long it took to get Obamacare to this point. Isn't one option just to stop Obamacare now, then do it again, so that three years from now we have a better system ready to go, instead of waiting three years to get a chance just to start fixing this old plan? That would ease the suffering we're worried about just that much sooner. Give it a thought.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by links234


How about all the tax payers money that has been lost to obamacare.

reply to post by links234

If it's defunded then it won't meet any deadlines and thus, won't be in effect. You should be ecstatic that this is happening!

Unforunately, that turns out to not be the case. The parts Obama wants to keep in will remain in effect, the parts he doesn't like, or isn't ready for, will not be in effect.

Would you be surprised if it turns out that he keeps the parts requiring people to send in money, and delays the parts requiring the government to send out money?

reply to post by XPLodER


Your philosophies may be good and all that ... BUT,

your thinking has one very serious flaw.

You apparently are not aware that many governments at all levels are infested with psychopaths.

The current U.S. Government is crawling with them at all levels ... Federal, State, Local.

Perhaps that explains things on simpler terms ?

I emphasize and criticize the corruption.

The average citizen here has little if any say in what actually happens.

Just look at the list of candidates that run for public office at all levels.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Dear XPLodER,

Wonderful! Now I'm willing to start marching with you shoulder to shoulder. Let me touch on the non-political side of this first.

I'm willing to give everybody the benefit of the doubt here and assume that Obamacare was designed to actually get medical care into the hands of nearly everybody, whether they could afford it or not, as a purely humanitarian gesture. (Many, of course, don't agree, but for my purposes, let it stand for now.)

And you'll find me marching with you. Obamacare is flawed, it has to be fixed, and the longer it takes to fix it, the longer people will suffer. So, let's get started on fixing it right away. Just about everyone expressing an opinion on the subject says the plan is flawed, as has been pointed out they just can't get it to work in three years, and more problems, like those of the "navigators," seem to be popping up every week. There are any number of Doctors' organizations and think tanks which have pointed out obvious flaws, let's change Obamacare to fix those.

agreed

Now we get to the problem, the political side.

highly charged ATM

For all the talk about the insurance companies owning Washington, they couldn't get a single Republican in either house to vote for it. This is a Democrat law, and has been hailed as Obama's greatest achievement. I will march with you to the gates of the White House, shouting "Obamacare needs to be fixed, now. We need to amend the law to fix the problems in it." Granted, that's a long slogan to shout, but you get my point. What response will we get from the Democrat President and Senate?

we both know the "legal rangling" going on in the background,
and the fact that politicians "receive donations" and tend to "vote" in favour of the "biggest donation"
this holds true for both dems and repubs.

untill money is removed from politics,
our voices are of litttle importance,
D or R

So, if we aren't going to have the opportunity to fix it, which we both believe it needs, we face a tough choice. We either have to reject it or accept it as it stands, without repairs.

in the current political climate, rejection is not an option,
repairs go against the wishes of big pharma, and big insurance,
and as they own the politicians voting for this,

so while bad policy it is all there is or will be untill politicians are finaced by people not lobbies.

You say the inconveniences are outweighed by the benefits. Many people don't accept that. But, whatever side you're on, it's not going to be significantly repaired in the next three years.

there is another option,
non profit insurance,
co op hospitals staffed by vets,
use the money saved to build more hospitals.

That three years is an interesting figure. That's how long it took to get Obamacare to this point. Isn't one option just to stop Obamacare now, then do it again, so that three years from now we have a better system ready to go, instead of waiting three years to get a chance just to start fixing this old plan? That would ease the suffering we're worried about just that much sooner. Give it a thought.

a very reasonable proposal,
its a shame the politicians are not reasonable,
its a shame that "obama care" is flawed,

BUT I DONT THINK THAT HEALTH CARE WOULD EVER PASS AGAIN
i really think that this is the 1 and only chance you have to fix the larger problems of health care.

a law like this will never get so close to being effective again,
as political donations have trippled over the last election cycle,
there is less chance of constructive (for the people) legislation being passed

that is unless you can change your political funding model,
and get the money out of politics. other wise this is the only chance we will get.

With respect,
xploder

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Your philosophies may be good and all that ... BUT,

your thinking has one very serious flaw.

You apparently are not aware that many governments at all levels are infested with psychopaths.

The current U.S. Government is crawling with them at all levels ... Federal, State, Local.

Perhaps that explains things on simpler terms ?

I emphasize and criticize the corruption.

The average citizen here has little if any say in what actually happens.

Just look at the list of candidates that run for public office at all levels.

in your "interesting, (how can that be legal) system of lobbyists,
the power to run in elections is dependant on political donations from large contributors,
that ARE BIG BUSINESS.

you see in a public funding model it is only "flesh and blood human beings" who can make donations.
this means they have to answer to YOU

to trust big pharma more than politicians is to ignore the fact they work in tandem.

big business is big government,
and to place trust is either is foolish while they answer to lobbies.

so i do understand your fears,
i do agree with some of your "points"

i dont agree we can just say they are so corrupt we should do nothing!

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


You and We can try all we want.

And we can all philosophize all we want ... BUT,

You do realize that the international corporatist cartel is the largest and most powerful organization in world history right ?

How do you propose to defeat this agenda ?

I have actually mentioned on other threads that all they had to do here (in the U.S.) was extend MediCare to everybody.

Don't remember what that would cost, but it might work (but if and only IF the corruption goes away).

But remember, the agenda is NOT to make things better for people.

The agenda has been (and is) to bankrupt the systems, not 'help' the average person.

If Obama Inc. was sooo concerned, why did they press this insane PPACA ?

Think about it.