A less discussed survival rifle

So I was down at the Orlando gun show today and I finally got a chance to buy a SU-16 for a decent price. I've been eyeing this rifle for quite some time for it's innovative marriage of AR and AK design. The SU-16 is chambered in 5.56/.223 and accepts any M16/AR mag type. That's where the AR ends...the design of the SU-16 incorporates the operating rod and gas tube style system of the AK renown for it's reliability. Aside from that the SU-16 also has a few other innovative features that in a survival/backpacking rifle stand out. One is the folding feature the SU-16 all models of this gun fold in half much like the Sub 2000 from Kel-Tech except they fold from behind the receiver. The SU-16c is the only one however that still fires folded as well as fitting a 30 round mag at the same time. This is the model I wanted but the 525$ price I got on the SU-16a won me over. The SU-16 also boasts a built in bipod in the front end. I will say it's a little light weight and shaky feeling but in a pinch it will get the job done...I would just brace it with my off hand. Also in the butt stock there is a space for 2 10 round mags to snugly fit in. It's also got more room in the butt stock and I'll be working on ways to utilize that space.
I have yet to fire my new SU-16 but I'm sure I'll be down at the range sometime this week so I'll be back with a range report and more pics. Does anyone else here own a SU-16 or have any experience with them? Also would love to see some other peoples survival rifle builds. If you could only grab one rifle for everything out there CQB to hunting game at range what would it be?

Kel-Tek SU-16a
www.keltecweapons.com...

Kel-Tek SU-16c
www.keltecweapons.com...

and two more vids if interested

Survival is a term up for interpretation.

Surviving a human-to-human war condition, food acquisition, defensive posturing, or some combination of those means different long guns. Consider availability of ammunition once your stock is depleted. 12Ga and .22LR ammo is the most common in the US. All long guns should have a good piece of glass installed and sighted in. All long guns should have a sling installed.

Start there.

Originally posted by tkwasny
22LR ammo is the most common in the US.

Not anymore it isn't. In many areas, you can't even buy .22LR retail, you have to order it online and most are still charging 2-3 times what its worth. Best I've seen lately is $19 for Federal 325 round bulk packs online about a week ago. Good choice IF you can find any ammo, though I'd want to pair it with a 9mm or larger handgun.

reply to post by RickyD


This is the first I've heard of this. Thanks for posting!

That's similar in function to the Henry AR-7 though I'd much prefer the .223/5.56 capability of the SU-16 since I have more of that ammo. I'd still hang on to my 10/22 though.

I'm going to dig into this a little deeper. I was actually considering a Henry for Christmas. My plans may have changed.

reply to post by tkwasny


I recently had to go to gunbroker to order 1000 rounds of 22 Long Rifle, cost about $105, shipped from Texas. My favorite rifle cartridge is the 30-06 it will handle anything on this planet, and it is readily available. If you are a survivalist, I am not sure you want anyone to get within a half mile of you, so you need to consider the 30-06, 8MM Mauser, and the 7.62 x 54 Russian Nagant cartridge. Just sayin . . . John

reply to post by RickyD


Can't really say for sure on the SU-16, as I have no experience with them, but I've heard good and bad, though leaning towards the former not the latter. I'd probably have one if I'd ever seen one for sale.

That being said, my choice for a 'less discussed' survival rifle would be a lever action .30-30. Note I said 'survival', not 'combat'. As an all-purpose utility rifle at a great price point, a good .30-30 is pretty tough to beat. Its compact, lightweight, reliable, hits hard, won't draw unwanted attention, and is more than adequate for most self-defense situations. Additionally, along with pump action shotguns, this will be one of the last firearms to end up on a national ban list. On the downside, its too much for small game (so is any other centerfire, IMO) and again, its certainly not a true combat-capable rifle. Still, I think the advantages make it a great budget choice, and a good idea for anyone to have one in the safe.

reply to post by vor78


I've had the pistol version, it was fun but very loud but light and couldn't fill it in your pack. But I agree that the 30 30 is the best survival gun. All my buddies started hunting with Marlin 30 30's. Hard to jamb a lever action. With Hornady's new loads you can get pretty close to 308. Now if someone would make an AR 30 30. That would be the ultimate survival rifle.

Originally posted by Faust100f
reply to post by tkwasny

 

I recently had to go to gunbroker to order 1000 rounds of 22 Long Rifle, cost about $105, shipped from Texas. My favorite rifle cartridge is the 30-06 it will handle anything on this planet, and it is readily available. If you are a survivalist, I am not sure you want anyone to get within a half mile of you, so you need to consider the 30-06, 8MM Mauser, and the 7.62 x 54 Russian Nagant cartridge. Just sayin . . . John

[/quote

Aimsurplus www.aimsurplus.com... has 22lr from $2.59 up to $4.99 for Quality Czechoslovakian Military Sellier & Bellot Brand Target Grade .22 long rifle ammunition. Manufactured 1980's by Sellier & Bellot for the Czech Military. Standard Velocity with a Wax Coated Lead Bullet and Eley Primed. Packaged 50rds to a box and 6,250rds (125 boxes) in a Military style wooden crate. While supplies last!

Oops the Cz is sold out!!

ammoseek.com... is a place you can type in your caliber and see who is selling what @ what price.

I usually just buy the 22lr at wally world but for other calibers I usually end up at aimsurplus or centerfire systems...I have not purchased in almost a year because I figured the big scare would come after the last election so I had been buying all year before the election...Darn glad I did...CCI's and Federal at 30% (or more)lower price than today's prices if you can find what you are looking for makes me congratulate myself.......

I haven't had a chance to fire an SU-16 and living in NY my chances grow smaller by the day. However I've owned several other items made by kel-tec and they're a great company. My personal favorite is the sub-2000 in .40 cal. I've had 2 and they never let me down. and the ability to fold it in half was what made me interested in the first place as a BOB item. I highly recommend anything made by these guys.

Well I took my SU-16 to the range yesterday to sight in my UTG red/green dot and wouldn't ya know it I forgot the allen wrenches to unlock the adjustment knobs...I don't much like the stock sights on it. So by this point I had already gotten ammo and targets I figured why not.

I started off right away by unfolding the bipod pushing the target out to the max at the indoor range (thats about 50') straight off the bat I was launching 3 round bursts down range in 2-3" groups getting tighter as I went along down to about 1.5' by the end but that lil bipod is hella flimsy. I guess I could see it working out well in the dirt or grass but on the smooth counter tops at the range I had to brace it with my off hand. So far +1 on the out of the box accuracy (I'd say most errors were shooters fault not the gun) but the bipod could be a whole lot more sturdy.
Next thing I wanna talk about is sustained fire. When I got to the range I usually have enough mags to load everything I've bought up right from the start mostly because anything over 100rnds makes my wallet cringe. So needless to say when it comes time for business 50-100rnds go quick. With the SU-16's piston gas tube as you would suspect it fired very clean but man was it hot. After 50rnds that gas tube was smokin and by the time I was done I couldn't even put it back in the soft case it would have melted it for sure. I am going to be heading back to the range to sight in my sight tomorrow...sight adjustment tool is already packed this time So I'll decide on accuracy once I got that all squared away.

There are a few mods out there for the SU-16 I intend on doing. First off the extractor is the same as an AR/M16 and the AR ones are much better than KTs so that will be replaced. As for the trigger some people like it some not so much. I am one of those who feels triggers have a whole lot to do with how accurate it can be shot. So I'll be swapping that out with Red Lions aluminum kit (AR trigger groups aren't interchangeable). On to that scorching gas tube. I have read a lot on KTs forum and it seems like I should be able to run a combat size load without problem but rapid fire I think will start effecting accuracy the only problem is the heat next to plastic. Well Red Lion also makes a fore guard in a long or compact size that's aluminum milled I think that should help with how much of the heat you feel on your hand. It also adds a 3 rail system for a much better bipod or fore grip. There is also an AR pistol grip package from KT but they always seem to be sold out...so I went digging. I found on the KT forum you can call KT and order all the parts you need and build it yourself using the guts from the original gun and 40$ in parts from KT. This however is just personal preference I would lose my two 10rnd mags that fit in the stock but I get to add a Magpul buttstock (this lets you use any commercial spec AR buttstock and maybe some mil spec) with water proof storage tube and a separate compartment for a survival kit. Last but not least is a sling and there are a few options. The SU-16 doesn't come with a very good way to mount a sling and as far as I can see there isn't a whole lot of options for mounting the attach points. If you get a fore guard with rails you can mount a point that way or you can drill a small hole in the polymer on the stock and bipod end and mount one like that. I like a single point tactical sling lets me free my hands quickly and luckily by doing the AR pistol grip mod most AR buttstocks have a sling attachment point.

So I guess my final thoughts are the SU-16 isn't quite made to battle standards but if your needs are a long gun that compliments your very light weight mobile style of bugging out this is the gun. It's chambered in one of the most common rounds in North America as well as being able to use the most common mags too. It's accurate enough to make 200yrd shots easy with a 3x zoom. The charlie model has a threaded barrel but it's possible to thread the A and B models as well so you can suppress it if your needs require. It fills the roll of a small game gun as well. I wouldn't shoot an elk with it unless it was a last resort to food but it should take down a turkey or a white tail no problem. I am glad this is the rifle I chose to sit next to my BOB. If you want to go to war or your one who wants to go out and engage the enemy in a situation where bugging out is called for get a proven MBR the SU-16 isn't for sustained rapid fire but she gets the job done fine for a survivalist trying to slip into the sticks

Links to Items discussed...
Red Lion Mods
Kel-Tek Mods and Parts

reply to post by tkwasny


I don't even consider a firearm to be part of my bug-out kit because of the fact it would be more effort than it's worth to feed and maintain, and lug around.

If I were to be caught by "adversaries" or whatever, it may be to my advantage to not seem to be a threat to them, versus being armed and dangerous.

It is better to learn to be quiet and be aware of one's surroundings, most people are pretty stupid in that respect, one does not even need to see them to have a pretty good idea of where they are.

I would also Like to add my girlfriend shot this rifle as well and in typical fashion her first question was does it kick bad...heh. I promptly told her no and set about reminding her to squeeze the trigger don't slap and to keep relaxed and don't tense up when you fire. Well her first shot she flinched like it was her getting shot at and of course missed the whole target. However a funny thing happened...she instantly became comfortable with it. Other than it's loud bark this thing is a dream to shoot. Follow up shots line up very fast due to it's light weight and low recoil.

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner


Thats why a rifle like this is so good. This could be packed away out of sight and along with a concealed pistol can leave you being able to quickly defend your family without having to appear as an armed target to others. I do understand what your saying however I know that human nature is to prey upon the weak...look at every situation before now where people actually had no law and order and had only the people around to rely on.