Islam's Incorruptible Qur'an Is Corrupt

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Fromabove

 

yes, I still want to remain a Muslim woman....

why? Because its what I believe.....

why my husband, because I love him for who he is.....

care, respect, understanding, and peace starts with one.... it can snowball from there... I am not the first, nor will I be the last, and some day.... will come the snowball, which will move faster as it gets bigger....

I am good with that.

I will say this. I think Islam would have been better off led by women than men. Islam tends to diminish women. Does that not bother you. Does your Christian husband diminish you or cherish you and lift you up in love so that the best in you come out. I see what muslim men do to their women. pretended temporary marriages, prearranged marriages between very old men and very young girls. It takes four witnesses to punish a rapist.I could go on but I think you know this already.

To stay on topic, this is relevant because any flaws in the Quran and inconsistencies have (I believe) led to this abuse of women in Islam.

reply to post by Fromabove


The best muslim men I know would never harm a hair on their wife's head, nor is the woman diminished....If i never worked another day in my life I would be happy... my christian husband wants me barefoot and pregnant... have no doubt, although the pregnant thing is just a joke... but barefoot and in the kitchen... yeah, he'd be in heaven...

I have the option though, and I know Muslim women in the middle east who also have that option... women are in parliament and everything else.... women in the middle east have been business women among other things too, doctors etc. Not every country is like afghanistan or saudia.

We have shining examples of what women can be and are. Dont think all men over there are evil bastards nor go thinking all christian men are wonderful shining examples of kindness and light.... some men are just bad, some men are good. doesnt matter who they are or what they believe, a bad man will seek to justify his behavior any way he can... a good man doesn't have to.


btw, when it comes to rape, dna and rape kit evidence is now admissible and the same as the witnesses. The 21st century is here.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


perhaps this is the start of the snow ball.
As you know islam is different,depending on the country and culture.
A muslim woman in Turkey has a different life than one in Yemen,and both are different from
say Africa. I am not talking about the economics,but on rights.

All these countries are majority muslim.Yet the way people are treated varies by wide margins.
SA is backing the Free Syrian army,as are a few Gulf arab states,to oust a pro Shia leader.
What happened to muslim brotherhood?

These same countries now have huge amounts of influence on the accepted views of Islam.
Why could this not have been the case for the last 1500 years or so-different political factions wanting different results.

Or are you of the opinion that current muslim thought is the same as it was 1500 years ago?

reply to post by BlackSnake


I do not think the thoughts now are the same as they were when the Prophet (saww) walked the earth. There was no women's rights in Arabia back then, and the Prophet (saww) spoke and acted to give women more rights than they had at that time...

He (saww) also acted and encouraged this.... The Prophets (saww) first wife was a business woman (as) and His Daughter (as) while a wife and mother was also very active in teaching and outspoken in Her own way....

His Granddaughter (as) stood up in the court of yazid (la) and gave the speech of a lifetime, one muslim women today still look up to....

The Prophet (saww) spoke so much on cherishing your daughters and mothers, respecting them and saying how much worth the woman had, gave rights that were non existent at that time to choose a husband etc rather than having one forced upon her... inheritance rights and everything were new then and introduced through Islam....

at some point some people rejected that part, underplayed it or played it different than was originally taught. Not all, but some.... more of a power play.. why give women rights when you are stronger? At different times and in different places these extremist views of rejection of the teachings rise and then maybe later fall....going back and forth to some degree throughout time.

I see it as more of an aspect of some men, power and the like, and much more cultural than anything else. Perhaps it is difficult to overcome a cultural aspect like that.... truth sometimes matters little... and sometimes it only matters depending upon who you speak to....

for the most religious, those most in touch with God and not extremism or cultural ideals... women's rights and women's place in society matters a lot. Although, I think Islam puts a greater emphasis on the importance of the role of the mother and in the family than other religions do... I personally would not ever want to see that go... and that mainly because when the importance of the mother was diminished in the west as a woman and a mother, you saw society take a downward spiral simply because the mother was no longer raising and loving her young in the same manner as before....

but that of course is nothing more than my personal opinion.

Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Fromabove

 

I dont believe that, and i AM muslim... I have yet to kill my husband for being a christian too.... he appears to be surviving fairly well.... although I think he is too thin and try to get him to eat more....

I understand that. muslims do not get up in the morning and say "I must kill infidels today". They will however by and large obey a fatwa of war or a decree by a mullah or even an Ayatollah to rise up and kill if told to do so. Your husband is a Christian and he chose to marry you so that is his decision. But both of you know that you can never live in a muslim nation because of that fact. Yet in the west no one cares because it is your choice. And yet you still want to remain a muslim woman? (If it's too personal you don't have to respond to my last statement.)

edit on 19-8-2013 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)

she does not need to change her religion. Allah is the same God of the Bible. she just has to obey Allah (The God). and not necessarily muhammad. take that which is good and apply it.. reject that which is bad.

reply to post by logical7

I also wonder why it is so necessary to present your personal background with details and a lot of arabic islamic words which are clickable links too. Overkill mate!!

Nope!

NOT overkill. Information, presented professionally, with credentials in Part 1. How many times have I asked you to give your own personal background, YET YOU REFUSE!? Perhaps in your part of the world, it is seen as something bad - to be honest, authentic, and genuine about oneself. In THIS part of the world, among educated people, it is seen as Openness, Transparency, and an act of Good Faith.

And you know what? For all you sqawking Muslims trying to berate and dismiss the OP, not ONE of you has presented such a thread, in such a scholarly and "indexed" way - as another member said: all you say is "nuh uh! I'm right and you're wrong." So very childish.

Guess what? Of all the efforts I see of Muslims (of whom MANY are on this board - and OpB saying "they aren't here" is nonsense) SAHABI WINS, hands down.

Clickable links make for compelling threads. Personal disclosure lends itself to confidence in the author's integrity and the credibility of their efforts. One liners saying "nuh uh" and "overkill", and "tell it to the Muslims" are silly and useless counter-points.

MAKE A THREAD PROVING THE OP IS WRONG, or leave it alone. It stands on its own as legitimate.

reply to post by logical7


"I also wonder why it is so necessary to present your personal background with details and a lot of arabic islamic words which are clickable links too. Overkill mate!!"

His personal background adds context does it not?

If nothing more it lets us see where the OP is coming from.

What’s the point in all this guys’ stuff; he was writing a book and probably can’t get it published because it’s too convoluted and not commercial.

Try to get it to the many Islamic bigots and you May get it published. But they want it commercial as well so good luck.

I also suspect you may be an undercover hater of Islam and pretending to be an ex-salafi, for your sake I hope that is the case.

If this guy was a salafi, then I think he was in an insane asylum within Islam.

Islam is so hated but you folks don’t realize it is still the fastest growing religion in the world.

That’s because of 2 things imo.

The simplicity of it and its broadness.

Understand that the greatest mystical movement in the world is under the banner of Islam the Sufis, the true heirs of Muhammad.

And it is broader than most people think.

Islam merely teaches the unity of God, some prayers and belief in the unseen.

Actually the first principle of Islam is not belief in God but belief in the unseen.

I wonder does this ex-Salafi scholar know that?

reply to post by wildtimes

And you know what? For all you sqawking Muslims trying to berate and dismiss the OP, not ONE of you has presented such a thread, in such a scholarly and "indexed" way - as another member said: all you say is "nuh uh! I'm right and you're wrong." So very childish. Guess what? Of all the efforts I see of Muslims (of whom MANY are on this board - and OpB saying "they aren't here" is nonsense) SAHABI WINS, hands down.

sqwaking muslims?
i have already posted a reply where i have quoted real scholars who btw are not muslims about what they think. Mostly you missed it.

Ya sahabi wins the approval of a crowd of ignorants and haters, it must feel wonderful

i as a muslim is not here to win and i can safely say that for my other brothers and sisters too, i am just concerned with the truth.

MAKE A THREAD PROVING THE OP IS
WRONG, or leave it alone. It stands on
its own as legitimate.

if it is such a scholarly work, i have already suggested that he try and publish it as a research paper and see how far it can go..

Any fool can pick up a few facts and make a wishful theory around it.

The differences in the copies he mentioned are spelling mistakes that scribes make or difference of scripts that arabs and non arabs use.
There are 7 ways to recite Qur'an. The difference being in the pronounciation and tribal dialect.

I have already engaged with the OP about the claim that Ali ra. had a codex and refused to share it and kept it for his decendents only. I hope he can provide an authentic souces for that claim. Otherwise his OP begins disintegrating downwards, don't worry i'l debunk the OP and the op slowly!!

Originally posted by Willtell
Islam is so hated but you folks don’t realize it is still the fastest growing religion in the world.

That’s because of 2 things imo.

The simplicity of it and its broadness.

Understand that the greatest mystical movement in the world is under the banner of Islam the Sufis, the true heirs of Muhammad.

And it is broader than most people think.

Islam merely teaches the unity of God, some prayers and belief in the unseen.

Actually the first principle of Islam is not belief in God but belief in the unseen.

I wonder does this ex-Salafi scholar know that?

it's the greatest mystical movement huh?

tell me.. how many have received the light of divinity following islam? how many traverse multiple worlds and dimensions? how many have been to heaven summoned by God and then returned to earth in their body?

let's talk belief in the unseen.

Originally posted by Willtell

If this guy was a salafi, then I think he was in an insane asylum within Islam.

Salafi / Wahhabi are death cult, they are not true muslims. Just for example almost all Al-Qaeda members are salafi. Salafi's are zionists created to destroy islam.

reply to post by logical7


"Any fool can pick up a few facts and make a wishful theory around it."

Quite correct! That's exactly what Mohamed(Peace be upon him) did with his Koran(Or at least helped). And exactly what Christianity did with the Bible. Do you see a pattern forming?

Religion in its most basic essence is wishful thinking.

Originally posted by Willtell
Islam is so hated but you folks don’t realize it is still the fastest growing religion in the world.

That’s because of 2 things imo.

The simplicity of it and its broadness.

Understand that the greatest mystical movement in the world is under the banner of Islam the Sufis, the true heirs of Muhammad.

And it is broader than most people think.

Islam merely teaches the unity of God, some prayers and belief in the unseen.

Actually the first principle of Islam is not belief in God but belief in the unseen.

I wonder does this ex-Salafi scholar know that?

Its not because its broad its because its structured. People want to belong no scratch that people need to belong to something makes them feel better. Also people want structure in there lives Islam does both these for them i personally think its to rigid but as i said some people need that. Religions in general pray upon the weak and the needy. Just like the old saying there are no atheists in fox holes.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by logical7

 

"I also wonder why it is so necessary to present your personal background with details and a lot of arabic islamic words which are clickable links too. Overkill mate!!"

His personal background adds context does it not?

If nothing more it lets us see where the OP is coming from.

edit on 19-8-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

i will not refute all that you said, just supplement it with another possibility

here

reply to post by andy06shake

Religion in its most basic essence is wishful thinking.

now this is a topic that may require its own thread.
Some religions are sure wishful thinking say reincarnation etc.
Some are just regional.
Some however are revealed religions. If you believe that you just popped up or maybe a more absurd stand that you created yourself then denying God and revealations is actually a very dangerous form of wishful thinking and self delusion.

This thread is creating an unusual reaction in me, sadness.

I expect that those individuals opposing the conclusions of Sahabi's work will return to the thread soon in an attempt to refute it, after all it's been up less than 24 hours.

But my sadness comes from their early reactions. As another poster pointed out, they were mostly one-liners with name calling, the response of children who had heard bad news. Then I realized that what I'm seeing here is the same despair and denial that comes from children being told that Santa Claus isn't real.

For Muslims of a certain kind though, this must be a much deeper disillusionment. If they accept it at all, it will take them time, but accepting truth is a necessary step to adulthood.

If it's only the recited Qu'ran that's incorruptible, may we go back to burning the paper ones without causing death to people?

Oh, the comment about Islam growing because it's so wonderful and all that?

Conversion is not a significant factor in the growth of Islam. The growth of Islam is due to "their relatively high birth rate, the large number of Muslims of childbearing age, and an increase in life expectancy in Muslim-majority countries." Available data indicates that "There is no substantial net gain or loss in the number of Muslims through conversion globally," and "Islam loses as many adherents via conversion as it gains." The growth of Islam from 2010 to 2020 has been estimated to be between 1.70% and 1.64% due to high birthrates in Asia, the Middle East, and Europe.

en.wikipedia.org...

If Islam relied on conversions, it wouldn't be growing at all. That's just another hard fact that needs to be accepted.

reply to post by logical7


"now this is a topic that may require its own thread."

Very true. Beyond my skill set i imagine.

"Some religions are sure wishful thinking say reincarnation etc."

I have always been quite partial to the idea of reincarnation myself. Seems very logical and for me at least its the only way I can understand why there is so much true evil in our world.

"Some are just regional."

Some are downright discombobulating if truth be told. But who am I to judge.

"Some however are revealed religions. If you believe that you just popped up or maybe a more absurd stand that you created yourself then denying God and revealations is actually a very dangerous form of wishful thinking and self delusion."

I myself believe in evolution with intelligent design, they can in fact go hand in hand.

That dude in the vid you posted does look like a born liar all the signs were indeed present and he looks shifty as hell. Reminded me of an evil magician! LoL

Originally posted by filledcup

Originally posted by Willtell
Islam is so hated but you folks don’t realize it is still the fastest growing religion in the world.

That’s because of 2 things imo.

The simplicity of it and its broadness.

Understand that the greatest mystical movement in the world is under the banner of Islam the Sufis, the true heirs of Muhammad.

And it is broader than most people think.

Islam merely teaches the unity of God, some prayers and belief in the unseen.

Actually the first principle of Islam is not belief in God but belief in the unseen.

I wonder does this ex-Salafi scholar know that?

it's the greatest mystical movement huh?

tell me.. how many have received the light of divinity following islam? how many traverse multiple worlds and dimensions? how many have been to heaven summoned by God and then returned to earth in their body?

let's talk belief in the unseen.

Please be gentle here filledcup. Do not push hard, just because they come from another viewpoint that is not the same as yours. You cannot be sure how far they will be able to reach and what understanding they will gain from the Sufi direction. If I ever would take up the Quran then Sufi would be my choice. Should we both ask with humility instead like the souls we can be when we are not quick to judgement?

reply to post by charles1952


the feeling i got when i saw some people jump on the OP to verify it as true and authentic as soon as they saw it was PITY.

If it's only the recited Qu'ran that's
incorruptible, may we go back to
burning the paper ones without
causing death to people?

this i guess is your style of dropping an offhand comment.
Could you tell me why would you want to burn a Holy Book of another religion in the first place? Out of respect and tolerance for the sentiments of the muslims?