Islam's Incorruptible Qur'an Is Corrupt

Its refreshing to see you have come to the conclusion the Islamic faith has been corrupted from within by individuals who obviously have there own agenda that being the promotion of hatred toward other religions.

It's not just the Koran that's been corrupted and misinterpreted. The Bible, Torah and all other significant religious texts are also guilty of this simply because they are books written by Man, since Man is fallible then so must his be his interpretation of the will of God however he may be called.

The world would be a significantly different place if people just learned to pray quietly, keep their religious ideologies to themselves and get on with there own existence.

Originally posted by Sahabi
I renounced Islam several years ago.

I am a former Sunni Muslim who followed the As-Salaf As-Saalih madh’hab (Salafi School of Thought). The Salafi methodology believes in a strict interpretation of the Qur’an and Islam, based upon the understandings of the first three generations of Islam.

I consider you an honest person. however I doubt. sorry for my unfriendly start but let it be.
so tell us how many Shia, Sunni and Christian have you beheaded as some polytheists or infidels !
tell us how you earned money from Saudi Arabia for killing and spying against the people of middle east. for suicide bombing in the mosques of Iraq, Pakistan and ........
tell us how you transfer the western weapons into Syria.
tell us who have told you to stop physical attacks against muslims and people of middle east and start a propaganda like an apostate.
how the security organs of monarchies of middle east and CIA and MOSSAD or MI5 are connected with the Al Qaeda.
we have seen many people like you. I should have said all of these and many other things.

reply to post by Sahabi


After reading your personal background, it seems you were here before under a different ID and posted similar things.

Anyways on the topic,
how about some authentication that Ali r.a. had compiled a Qur'an and refused to share it, keeping it for just his decendants?
You are accusing a great man of having an ego and selfish behaviour. It looks more like a shia fairytale and you are an ex-sunni according to your own claim, right?

I also wonder why it is so necessary to present your personal background with details and a lot of arabic islamic words which are clickable links too. Overkill mate!!

reply to post by Sahabi

This op can withstand all academic Islamic peer- review and criticism.

why don't you publish it as a paper and then get back here and tell us how it went..

I am here to tell the truth about Islam,... a truth that some conceal and many do not know.

you are here with an agenda and many here welcome and support it because it validates their opinion. The only ones you many end up influencing are some weak minded people who may get impressed by the bulk of information and believe it true without any self study or research.

The OP contains your personal background and you have used it to somehow make your later claims look authentic, so don't complain about when your personal information is scrutinized.

Also just an interesting observation, while debating with a poster you greeted him/her with the islamic greeting, maybe to prove something. I found that very revealing..

btw,
WalekumAssalam WaRehmatullah

I don't really understand Islam enough to agree or disagree with you, but I applaud your taking so much time and work to present your viewpoint and hope it is not "casting pearls before the swine". I also hope it is arisen from honest inquiry rather than agenda. Good luck with your Debate.

Peace,

When I have the time I'd like to actually debate you on the topic, considering my knowledge and "personal experience" is a little more extensive than yours..

I'll start off however, by saying that you screwed up following the salafi school of thought. You state yourself that it is a strict methodology but you failed to focus on how LITERAL the salafi school takes everything. The Qur'an states that some things in it are direct, and some are metaphoric....

Anyway, when I have time... Smh

Originally posted by Sonny2
BS, all stuff he posted can be easily debunked, he is a christian guy Im 100% sure, or maybe one of those paid israeli propaganda soldiers

Riiiight. Someone posts information that you don't like so that makes them a paid Israeli shill. :shk: If it is so easily debunked ... I CHALLENGE you to do so. Go ahead. I double dog dare you. We will all wait with great anticipation to see how you quickly and easily debunk all the information he has posted. (sarcasm)

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
Al Quran an Natiq is incorruptible.

Dude .. the Quran is a mess. It's full of scientific and historical errors. It's mostly just bits and pieces of other religions (Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Paganism, and the Jewish Faith) which has been stolen and POORLY rewritten to invent Islam.

Educate yourself. Suggested reading - 'Why I am not a Muslim' by Ibn Warriq.

Thanks to the OP for posting.

I skimmed through the posts and would like to return to them to study in detail. What you are saying, from a scholarly point of view, is not at all unusual in the history of ancient texts. The idea that a Muslim would read your posts and take issue with them on general principle, rather than in specific details, is suspect. What you describe of the history of the Koran is completely typical of very old texts. The idea that a textual revelation as old as the Koran could have survived unchanged from the moment it was revealed almost 1500 years ago requires a complete suspension of common sense.

I am a Buddhist myself and am familiar with the incredible fidelity that can be achieved by "oral traditions" of text preservation, but even in our tradition it is acknowledged that discrepancies have occurred and that conclaves of experts have been assembled to deal with them.

The ad hominem arguments directed at you are also, unfortunately, all too typical when people differ strongly on almost any topic, whatever their national, political, philosophical or religious background.

I have tried to read the Koran a couple of times. I could never get beyond the first fifty pages or so. I think the Koran was a political answer to aggression on the Arabs emanating from the Jews. To me it seems clear that the first 50 or so pages, at least, are a response to a political situation.

Obviously there is more to the Koran than that. Otherwise it would never have become a world religion. The style of the book was very harsh to my sensibility. I don't like being harangued and threatened. I don't like injunctions to violence by a religious book and I don't like the stigmatizing of other religions. Islam's attitudes to other religions are almost entirely political and polemical. There is no intellectual outreach at all.

I would like to read the whole book. I acknowledge that I am very deficient in my understanding of Islam for not having read its principle text. However one must remember that when meeting the stranger it is important to make a good first impression. For me, the Koran does not do that and my conversation with it has always been brief as a result.

Originally posted by Sonny2
Look at his signature, he is a buddhist

I told ya, he was never a muslim, just spread his propaganda.
He probably thinks that his stone god is better than Muhammad's

Educate yourself. Buddhists don't worship a stone God. Buddhism is NON-THEISTIC.
And I'll take Buddhism over Islam any day of the week.
Buddhism is truly peaceful and it makes a heck of a lot more sense then Islam.

Buddhism for Beginners

It tooks 5 minutes of research to bust your claims. Uthman ibn Affan noticed that there were different copies of the Quran so he asked Muhammads wife to give him original copy of the Quran, after that he decided to destroy all copies that contradicts Quran that Muhammad's wife gave it to him. There could be still found ancient copies that contradicts original but it is obvious which one is is correct.

I like the simplicity of Jesus with his teachings.

Originally posted by Sonny2
It tooks 5 minutes of research to bust your claims.

Again .. I challenge you to do so ... post the information that debunks what the OP posted.
He posted 2 full ATS pages of information. Go point by point and prove him wrong.
I dare you.

Originally posted by Sonny2
There is a lot of islamic scholars that study Quran and history of the Quran.

If they really did an honest study of the Quran, they'd run screaming away from Islam.
The Qu'ran is a mess. Stolen bits and pieces from Christians, Jews, Pagans and the
Zoroastrians .... Scientific and historical errors abound ... errors in syntax and
confusion as to who is speaking .... it's one big mess that obviously wasn't written
or transcribed by an all-knowing God.

reply to post by FlyersFan


This forum is full of people waiting for these kind of topics so that they can make fun of Muhammad, muslims and Islam. First words that this guy said was 'islam is a terrorist religion', I mean waste of time from the begining. He just copied this stuff from some anti-islam website claiming to be thruth. If he was so sure about his claims he would go to some islamic scholars and ask them. He is posting this on atheist forum full of people waiting to flag topics like this without any research or doubt, I mean, C'mon.

reply to post by Sonny2


ATS is SOOOOOO far from an Athiest forum.... Check yourself dude...

reply to post by Sonny2

Quit whining. You said you could easily debunk him in five minutes.
It's been more than five minutes. Either debunk him or quit complaining about the facts he posted.
That's how a discussion forum works. Prove him wrong or accept what he said or ignore the thread.
Those are your three choices. Which will you pick??

Well, what are they going to do now that they see that the Quran is not what they thought it was. Most of the things written were obviously put in it to meet the needs of each successive ruler. In fact, because Muhammad was an illiterate, there's almost no possible way to know what he said if he said anything at all. Maybe he simply said to the fragmented tribes;

"Can't we all just get along..?"

reply to post by FlyersFan


you're being pretty judgemental yourself, he told you that Mohommed(saws) ordered the destruction of any copies found of the quranic verses that were in other dialects due to them being somewhat contradictive, as originally it was written down in about 7 different dialects, and as you should well know no language can be directly translated into another, so I believe that answers the OP's arguments almost in its entirety due to it being based on dismissing the quran due to older texts being found than the oldest(full) text we have today. Anyway I'm no scholar on the subject but as previously noted, I'd like to see how far this OP gets posting his debate to an Islamic scholar, then post it back in here. If he really seeked truth and wanted to spread truth I'd imagine he'd do just that, but there seems to be another agenda at hand, but Allahu Alim(GOD knows best).

On a side note, you said "Buddhism is truly peaceful and it makes a heck of a lot more sense then Islam", well good for you, I on the other hand would never chose Buddhism over Islam, when the highest state to reach for a Buddhist is to not exist at all, living is all about trying not to live according to Buddhism, due to life being all about suffering to them, and constantly getting reborn and suffering more until you sacrifice and learn enough to earn the pleasure of not existing at all thus ending all suffering, the ultimate pessimists, truly sad indeed. Not to mention being too cowardly to physically for what is right when the time is right. But anyway, that's my two cents, each to their own at the end of the day. See you on the other side if GOD wills.

When you look at the newspapers today, specifically Islamic violence, Muslim on Muslim violence, it begins to seem as if the truly Islamic response to anything is the ad hominem attack, whether with words or with bullets and bombs. I know that is an oversimplification and that there is dialogue both within the Islamic community and between it and other communities, but one can be forgiven, I think, for making the mistake that the personal attack on another is the standard Muslim response to any disagreement.

I hasten to add that I have one Muslim friend who is a very fervent Muslim (Shia tradition) that I can have a decent discussion, mutually respectful, without it dissolving into personal attacks.

Originally posted by Sonny2
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

This forum is full of people waiting for these kind of topics so that they can make fun of Muhammad, muslims and Islam. First words that this guy said was 'islam is a terrorist religion', I mean waste of time from the begining. He just copied this stuff from some anti-islam website claiming to be thruth. If he was so sure about his claims he would go to some islamic scholars and ask them. He is posting this on atheist forum full of people waiting to flag topics like this without any research or doubt, I mean, C'mon.

Islam is only a religion of peace to muslims. It is a religion of war, conquest, and death to everyone else. They live and die by the sword. Fighting and killing is all this religion does. Take a look at the middle east. If what they do is to terrorize other peoples than yes, it is a terrorist religion. If not, prove it with the facts because what I see is hate, terror, and killing.