Enlightenment Isn't Found; It Is Created.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by intrptr

 

it is a gift.

A gift from whom?

A gift from yourself, stop thinking and start doing. Act as if we are all Avatars in your own universe and do battle and watch and understand and love and watch and sit and ponder and sleep and save us. I'll be saving you in my game and I will come in dead last because the loser learns the lesson of the winner, by eating his dust lol, and his own lesson!

reply to post by Qi Maker


Eventually those calculations spread out very far apart from each other, the first moment I had of bliss in meditation over 22 years ago is when the torrent of thought, suddenly stopped. It was like being pranic energy itself, I had no awareness of anything that had ever occurred in my life, no awareness of shape or form, no consciousness other than what I could relate to as a moving electric current after my mom yelling my name snapped me out of it.

When she yelled my name it sounded very faint like through a tunnel, sometimes I used to wonder what would have happened if I didn't identify with the name as myself and grasped it when I heard it. Because that snapped me out of it, the odd thing is after her yelling my name and I open my eyes after the state immediately receded and I go to ask what she needed... she said she didn't call my name.

It was an odd experience, I spent two years trying to chase the dragon have the same experience without result. Then frustrated, I turned to "herbal" stimulation for the practice... a bad idea maybe because all you'll experience with that is a jhana state, that can create a lot of self delusion, I fruitlessly spent 3 years on that path. Pollinating about my precious little sprout as blind as an ass.

Could the meaning and experience of "enlightenment" depend on how one perceives it and only true when one doesn't even realize he/she has attained it?

"Just when I discovered the meaning of life, they changed it" - George Carlin

reply to post by HUMBLEONE

Please tell me, how does one activate one's Kundalini? Thank You.

One method to "awaken" the "kundalini" is with body and/or hand mudras (no pranayamas, kriyas, mantras, meditation, study of chakras, etc. needed). One of them (among MANY others):

He who knows the mystic mark of the triangle attracts all; he knows all; enjoys all fruits; he breaks up all and immobilizes the foe. Keeping the middle fingers over the ring fingers, he (brings together) the little fingers and the thumbs, the forefingers being left free like rods pointing downward. Thus is the first mark made (the triangle)...

The ninth master-wheel is replete with all delight and is associated with the triad such as Kameshvari. It is exceedingly mysterious, occupied by the great Tripura, the beautiful, and has the mystic mark of the triangle. - Tripura Tapini Upanishad.

reply to post by Qi Maker

maybe not everyone needs to or even should experience kundalini awakening, but i can tell you, at least IME, the physiological aspect of the kundalini energy is very much a real thing. i had no idea what kundalini was before i had the experience, it was only later that i found out there was a name and established symptoms for it, and that it described precisely what i'd experienced. it feels exactly like a lightening bolt of raw electric energy fracturing upward through the spinal column in a zig zag pattern.

...and then there's the accompanying total ego-loss/visionary aspect that is equally as transforming...

kundalini awakening is not an entity or a practice. it's raw pranic energy coiled up at the base of the spine waiting to be stimulated and released, that destroys the blockages in the chakra centers, dismantles the projections of the ego, and gives one a glimpse into what it's like to dissolve into the All.

No, I understand what kundalini is. I just don't see it as having anything to do with prana or qi energy. The term energy itself is quite misleading when used by the spiritual ones. I don't subscribe to their definitions of energy; I choose to use the common-place use of the term. I don't think it has anything to do with the ego; I don't think it gives anyone a glimpse of anything but how to contort their own body to achieve different sensations. I find most dualist forms of vitalism to be little thought out.

The language around the idea is quite suspect. Whenever I read into it, I learn nothing.

you misunderstand the meaning of meditation. it has little to do with sitting postures and nothing to do with the closing off of the senses.

meditation in the broadest sense is a held state of awareness; a peak mindfulness where one dissolves the boundary between their own energy field/vessel and the energy field of the macrocosm/creation, feeling the entire movement of the cosmos as a unified whole process moving through them.

to really feel that unified process moving through you, though, requires conscious effort. melding with the circuit streams requires singular focus, you can't have the regular calculations of the mind going on...it will break the connection. responding to external stimuli in any way will disrupt the connection, because it disrupts the singular focus--the focus on the singular/All.

I don't agree with your definition of meditation. I also think that the calculations of the mind are natural and a part of this unified process. If meditation's aim is to silence those processes, it is an attempt to silence a part of the universal process itself.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness

chase the dragon

Be careful when using that phrase in public.

reply to post by spartacus699

You don't need a cult to find God. If you want to talk to God he's there 24/7/365. If you want to just stop reading this, kneel down and pray to him, and express that you want to find out who he is and where you came from, what your life's purpose is, and where you're going. It's that simple. There's nothing to becoming enlitened. You don't need any guru, or anything. All you got to is start by defeating your pride, by getting your knees and praying. That's it.that's where you start.

Being told to pray is no different than being told to meditate or fast or to turn to chanting words. I think praying is the most cult-like practice out there, and that it is a complete lie.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
To be honest and candid, I have always been disappointed with the “spiritual search for truth”, with its twists and turns and forever dead ends. I found I didn’t desire the peace of mind they offered, as I still sought the frenzy and chaos from which I find beauty is conceived. Even in my own spiritual searches, whether I failed or not, I have yet to stumble upon anything I could call enlightenment, or any glimpse of my true spiritual nature. It seems I am simply incapable of such access.

Where were you searching for enlightenment? And what were you hoping to find in your search if not peace of mind?
What are you looking for?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Where were you searching for enlightenment? And what were you hoping to find in your search if not peace of mind?
What are you looking for?

Specifically I followed the path of the Buddha, attempting asceticism, deep meditation and subscribing to much of his teachings. I am a westerner, so I admit my attempts may have been superficial at best.

I was searching for peace of mind, but then I realized it was not what I desired. I found that such paths lead to escapism, which for me leads one away from the beauty that life offers. I always felt I was missing out on too much when I sat and meditated.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
I was searching for peace of mind, but then I realized it was not what I desired. I found that such paths lead to escapism, which for me leads one away from the beauty that life offers. I always felt I was missing out on too much when I sat and meditated.

Beauty is all around and is seen much crisper when the mind shuts up - birds are heard and children laughing, snippets of strange conversations - everything is seen and heard when the mind quietens down and allows one to see and hear.
The only thing that one escapes from is the mind chatter.
I don't believe that sitting in a room with your eyes shut is the answer either, but it seems to work for some.
It is impossible to quiet the mind but it can just shut up all by itself in some cases. And then when it starts again it is heard. Finding yourself as the silent listener may happen.
Notice the quiet that contains the mind.

I bet it was the mind that told you that you were missing out - it has many tricks that make sure you keep it as your master.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


What I was correct about isn't what is important. The important part for me, in hindsight, was gaining the ability to withstand the harsh criticism that surrounded me and my ideas. I believe you are correct when you say part of the whole deal is inner conviction.

I don't expect my personal truths to mean anything to anyone else. My message is to look inside and find your own truths and live by faith according to them.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Beauty is seen much crisper when the mind shuts up - birds are heard and children laughing, snippets of strange conversations - everything is seen and heard when the mind quietens down and allows one to see and hear.
The only thing that one escapes from is the mind chatter.
I don't believe that sitting in a room with your eyes shut is the answer either, but it seems to work for some.
It is impossible to quiet the mind but it can just shut up all by itself in some cases. And then when it starts again it is heard. Finding yourself as the silent listener may happen.
Notice the quiet that contains the mind.

I personally don't see any beauty in a quiet mind. I see a seeking for comfort or rest and nothing else. I personally am not that idle of an individual. I seek adventure of the mind and not peace.

reply to post by ccadaver


I cannot disagree with that. Thanks for your insights.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
I personally don't see any beauty in a quiet mind. I see a seeking for comfort or rest and nothing else. I personally am not that idle of an individual. I seek adventure of the mind and not peace.

The beauty is not in the quiet mind - the beauty is all around. When the mind is chatting the beauty that is all around is missed because there is an obsession with thinking.
What is so great about thinking?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

The beauty is not in the quiet mind - the beauty is all around. When the mind is chatting the beauty that is all around is missed because there is an obsession with thinking.
What is so great about thinking?

Thinking to me is a part of that beauty. To me it is another sense with which to experience that beauty.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The beauty is not in the quiet mind - the beauty is all around. When the mind is chatting the beauty that is all around is missed because there is an obsession with thinking.
What is so great about thinking?

Thinking to me is a part of that beauty. To me it is another sense with which to experience that beauty.

Thinking happens and I agree is beautiful.
Maybe peace of mind is being able to utilize thought when one needs to and not having it control you or keep you awake at night. A lot of thinking is needless worrying, repetitive and negative.
Peace of mind does not have to mean total silence - just a peaceful mind.
A no conflict mind.

Thinking happens and I agree is beautiful.
Maybe peace of mind is being able to utilize thought when one needs to and not having it control you or keep you awake at night. A lot of thinking is needless worrying, repetitive and negative.
Peace of mind does not have to mean total silence - just a peaceful mind.
A no conflict mind.

I agree. I don't think silencing the mind helps anything. But I think through the practice of thinking, one can learn to focus and prioritize what is important. This would involve some sense of reason, being able to determine what thoughts are practical and what might lead one to such ends as stress or worry, which I would argue is a form of irrationality.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
No, I understand what kundalini is. I just don't see it as having anything to do with prana or qi energy. The term energy itself is quite misleading when used by the spiritual ones. I don't subscribe to their definitions of energy; I choose to use the common-place use of the term. I don't think it has anything to do with the ego; I don't think it gives anyone a glimpse of anything but how to contort their own body to achieve different sensations. I find most dualist forms of vitalism to be little thought out.

The language around the idea is quite suspect. Whenever I read into it, I learn nothing.

"I don't see it as..."
kundalini is the concentrated, super-charged form of prana/qi, but both are the same universal life-force. kundalini is prana in a highly active state.

"I don't subscribe to..."
petty semantics here. we all know what we mean when we employ the common term 'energy' in the context of a metaphysical/spiritual discussion.

"I don't think it has anything to do with..."
'you don't think'...so in other words, you have no direct experiential knowledge to confirm that it indeed has everything to do with the the dissolution of base ego-mind, so therefore it's false? I assure you, it is intrinsically tied.

"I don't think it gives anyone..."
...but you don't know, do you? if a tree falls in the forest, but you didn't see or hear it, then it didn't happen???

"I find most..."
there's nothing dualistic about it...the microcosmic life-force is the same as the universal life-force.


you learn nothing because you've decided that you know what it's all about without even having any direct experience of the phenomenon yourself. you lack the humility to be shown.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
I don't agree with your definition of meditation. I also think that the calculations of the mind are natural and a part of this unified process. If meditation's aim is to silence those processes, it is an attempt to silence a part of the universal process itself.

it's not that mind chatter is separate from reality or unnatural, it's that it serves to temporarily disconnect oneself from the singular vibratory flow of the cosmos because it is linear and terminating; it is projection/illusion.

you can't maintain full focus on the cosmic vibration of All while making temporal mental calculations. you have to take the time to bring your attention into singular focus on zero-point and hold it...IMO.

reply to post by Qi Maker

"I don't see it as..."
kundalini is the concentrated, super-charged form of prana/qi, but both are the same universal life-force. kundalini is prana in a highly active state.

So you say...but what you say means little in the grand scheme of things.

"I don't subscribe to..."
petty semantics here. we all know what we mean when we employ the common term 'energy' in the context of a metaphysical/spiritual discussion.

It's not petty. This is a direct abuse of language to justify a way of thinking. I find no truth in it.

"I don't think it has anything to do with..."
'you don't think'...so in other words, you have no direct experiential knowledge to confirm that it indeed has everything to do with the base ego-mind, so therefore it's false?

I don't even think there is such a thing as an ego. Until someone proves otherwise, yes it is false.

"I don't think it gives anyone..."
...but you don't know, do you? if a tree falls in the forest, but you didn't see or hear it, then it didn't happen???

And you do? I think I've proven quite well in the OP that such direct access to supreme knowledge is quite impossible.

"I find most..."
there's nothing dualistic about it...the microcosmic life-force is the same as the universal life-force.

You are speaking of something like vitalism, which is all but rejected. I also don't think you nor anyone else knows what a life-force is, nor is there any evidence of such an "energy". Thinking that a body has a life-force independent of the body itself is a dualistic principle.

you learn nothing because you've decided that you know what it's all about without even having any direct experience of the phenomenon yourself. you lack the humility to be shown.

And you lack the knowledge to make such declarations. You know nothing of my experiences or humility.

it's not that mind chatter is separate from reality or unnatural, it's that it serves to temporarily disconnect oneself from the singular vibratory flow of the cosmos because it is linear and terminating; it is projection/illusion.

I think it serves no such purpose being that it is a phenomenon of that "vibratory flow of the cosmos". It is not projection/illusion.

you can't maintain full focus on the cosmic vibration of All while making temporal mental calculations. you have to take the time to bring your attention into singular focus on zero-point and hold it...IMO.

I don't find any truth to these claims...IMO.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by spartacus699

 

You don't need a cult to find God. If you want to talk to God he's there 24/7/365. If you want to just stop reading this, kneel down and pray to him, and express that you want to find out who he is and where you came from, what your life's purpose is, and where you're going. It's that simple. There's nothing to becoming enlitened. You don't need any guru, or anything. All you got to is start by defeating your pride, by getting your knees and praying. That's it.that's where you start.

Being told to pray is no different than being told to meditate or fast or to turn to chanting words. I think praying is the most cult-like practice out there, and that it is a complete lie.

How do you know, you've never even tried it.