Are atheists mentally ill? The Impact of Religious Practice on Social Stability

reply to post by charles1952


None of that has anything to do with religion or atheism. And if you're going to argue otherwise, I'd like to see sources.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Dear AfterInfinity,

If you're referring to my most recent post, then I agree with you completely. It did have nothing to do with religion. It was a response to your post, which also had nothing to do with religion.

Notice that this is the part where Trihalo stops posting sources. He makes three statements that are all supported by sources, then he drops this pile of rubbish and doesn't even bother with evidence.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Of course. Trihalo was implicating the attitude of a certain age group by associating it with a particular lack of spirituality and a subsequent rise in rebellious behavior. I was pointing out he had no evidence for that correlation.

Glad to see this thread back to life again since I wanted to comment.

Atheists mentally ill? We are not the ones who worship a Santa Claus that promises to deliver eternal life after we um, die? And we don't speak to "someone" that isn't there every night.. Talk about being delusional...

And we don't pray over our children because they will miraculously be cured by an invisible person. Last I heard on the radio a few days ago, they get jail time when their kids drop dead. The first time though is usually a time served with probation. The second time they lock em up. Gee you would think after they lose their first kid they would realize that praying to an invisible person is um, worthless?

Gushing blood? Never mind with the ambulance. Here let me pray for ya, so God heals ya. Well if that fails, no problem, he can just bring you back from the dead.

Oh and atheists don't believe in fairytales past their childhood. Nor do we form cults to praise peter pan, tinker-bell and hook every Sunday.

reply to post by Elouina


Wow, elouina. You seemed to be a very devout "God" person...all your threads bashing TPTB.

You have surprised me here.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Elouina

 

Wow, elouina. You seemed to be a very devout "God" person...all your threads bashing TPTB.

You have surprised me here.

High morals, respect for all life, and empathy for fellow humans can come from more than just religion. Perhaps those of us that don't need religion have evolved in a sense. l know plenty of humans right now that would turn caveman if there were no police or fake Gods around to srike fear in them. Really God was invented to control the masses. And quite frankly I hope those people keep believing.

Just so you know, when I say all life, I mean it. I used to sunbath 1 foot at most, directly under a hornets nest. Do you think they ever once hurt me? Not a chance, we had mutual respect. They would fly past my face etc nonstop. Actually come to think about it, they flew over my torso, and not my face. Now that is respect. I had a spider in my kitchen that I didn't turn back outside that I used to teach my daughter this very lesson. We named her Charlotte. . We read charlottes web together, and the spider shared our daily space.

And I even mourn for the sick bees that I often see. The other day I was especially saddened to see a yellow jacket on my wall. He had pollen falling off his legs as he desperately tried to hang on to life. For a short while, I talked to him and let him know that he wasn't alone during his rough time. About 10 minutes later he flew off. And I was happy that I was there to witness this.

reply to post by Elouina

High morals, respect for all life, and empathy for fellow humans can come from more than just religion. Perhaps those of us that don't need religion have evolved in a sense. l know plenty of humans right now that would turn caveman if there were no police or fake Gods around to srike fear in them. Really God was invented to control the masses.

Totally, completely, whole-heartedly agree with you, ma'am. :bow:

Thanks for clarifying your position. Yeah, I've never been stung by the bees that hover around either, I just wave them away and tell them to go somewhere else. No malice. I HATE killing things - and only when it's a brown recluse do I do so - even so, I used to live in a house INFESTED with them - and not ONE of us ever got bitten. But I don't want to take the chance.

We don't use pesticides either - keeps the bugs and beasties OUT of the house by keeping the yard safe for them. You poison their world - you'll only drive them to come to where you are living. Fighting nature is stupid and senseless and wrong, in my opinion.

Namaste.

reply to post by Elouina


That's a wonderful little story. Many times, I sit outside on the lake in the evening, because the stars and moon are the perfect complimentary natural features in conjunction with a placid, reflective lake as a soft caressing breeze ruffles your hair and you smoke a cigarette listening to the sound of waves lapping gently on the beach. Perfect summer nights.

Anyway, I will often watch as bugs crawl across the ground or a moth flutters across my path. One even landed on my arm and I loved it. Every time I help a spider or a bug find a safe spot to crawl, people ask me why I didn't kill it. I look them in the eye and say, "You would kill that bug because it's weak and repugnant and you care nothing for its place in the world. It is a peon in your mind. So what exactly is God supposed to do with you when you cross his path? Why should he show you any more mercy than you would have shown that bug?" It's nothing but the truth, really. People never think that deeply, and it saddens me that they don't. Imagine what new perspectives they could discover.

I always love it when animals demonstrate a total lack of fear, such as a dozen ducks racing to get the first bite when you open a bag of chips, or family of deer casually strolling across a lawn as cars drive by. Things that tell me homo sapiens and their outlandish creations can coexist with the creatures that have more right to this earth than we do.

I am an atheist, and yet because of what I have just described, my appreciation for both nature and the animals that brave it, I can honestly state that I am spiritual. This is my personal definition of spiritual: cognizant of nonphysical bonds between two or more aspects of the physical world. I am a spiritual atheist because I state that these bonds between myself and the animals and natural forces of the world, these undercurrents of appreciation and meaning, are not the product of any divine source. They are the product of a relationship which has revealed patterns that I find significant in a manner that has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with life.

So you tell me: am I mentally ill? Or am I just...visionary?

reply to post by RedCairo



Lovely post, I see the extreme difference between religiosity and spirituality.

I have to post this again
en.wikipedia.org...

Evolutionary origin of religions

Increased brain size

In this set of theories, the religious mind is one consequence of a brain that is large enough to formulate religious and philosophical ideas.[6] During human evolution, the hominid brain tripled in size, peaking 500,000 years ago. Much of the brain's expansion took place in the neocortex. This part of the brain is involved in processing higher order cognitive functions that are connected with human religiosity. The neocortex is associated with self-consciousness, language and emotion[citation needed]. According to Dunbar's theory, the relative neocortex size of any species correlates with the level of social complexity of the particular species. The neocortex size correlates with a number of social variables that include social group size and complexity of mating behaviors. In chimpanzees the neocortex occupies 50% of the brain, whereas in modern humans it occupies 80% of the brain.

Robin Dunbar argues that the critical event in the evolution of the neocortex took place at the speciation of archaic homo sapiens about 500,000 years ago. His study indicates that only after the speciation event is the neocortex large enough to process complex social phenomena such as language and religion. The study is based on a regression analysis of neocortex size plotted against a number of social behaviors of living and extinct hominids.[7]

Stephen Jay Gould suggests that religion may have grown out of evolutionary changes which favored larger brains as a means of cementing group coherence among savannah hunters, after that larger brain enabled reflection on the inevitability of personal mortality.[8]

This is kinda where I am at please read.

reply to post by Elouina


so if you are pro abortion yet will not kill a hornet nest
with un hatched eggs and larvae in it you are a hypocrite.

no you will not be able to see that either.

if an atheist has morals and values, she he can bet that those same
morals and values came from religion and Christianity in particular.

reply to post by spirited75


Who ever said that I was pro abortion besides yourself? A woman can do what she wants to do, but their morals are their own, not mine. I consider it murder.

reply to post by spirited75

if an atheist has morals and values, she he can bet that those same
morals and values came from religion and Christianity in particular.

With all due respect, I very strongly disagree. As an atheist, I take my morals and values from this little thing I like to call empathy. If you rely on a god to give you morals, that must mean you have no empathy. That's one of the key characteristics of psychopathy, did you know that? The inability or reduced ability to empathize with fellow creatures. That's why it's so easy for them to hurt people.

So if we want to talk about "mentally ill"...well, you catch my drift, I'm sure.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by LionOfGOD

 

Calm down.
sheeese

Make me.

reply to post by LionOfGOD


Chill out. It's an interesting discussion which probes the relationship between psychology and spirituality. There's no reason to get upset, we're just exploring some very complicated material that we could all learn from. Even if the source material is questionable, it does not mean the subject doesn't warrant investigation.

So let's investigate.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

So you tell me: am I mentally ill? Or am I just...visionary?

I think you are a being aware of and experience the magic that surrounds us, noting your place in the universe.

One of my most profound spiritual experiences was a walk down a neighborhood tree lined street, and getting a glimpse of infinity, the feeling of the earth beneath my feet, I can't express in words.

Hate to sound corny but I did feel oneness with the universe.

It doesn't have to be some profound ritualistic event, it usually is something I feel in the simplest of acts.

reply to post by stormdancer777


It's as simple as recognizing a pattern. A theme that is shared between the smallest of particles and the largest of galaxies, the most brutal hunter of the jungle and the wisest monk in the temple. An understanding that fosters the willingness to accept that whether or not you like being an egg, you are still part of the omelette.

I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but me, but I'm trying.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

smallest of particles and the largest of galaxies,

Yes, patters and synchronicity,

and a universe in a sunbeam.

The other morning the sun was streaming though a small gap in the window, I woke to see all my crystals and bead-working reflecting the sun like a prism all around the room and the sun shone only on the table where they were placed, I thought to myself this is what the ancient seers saw.

Is this what made them build great monuments because of on a specific day of the year the sun shone on a specific spot?

I noted the day and time and took a picture.

Stormdancer777
OK! you guys are going to have to do better then this.

I heard it all before, tell me something I don't know.

hey

en.wikipedia.org...

home.comcast.net...

Geroge G. W. Bush is a Christian (murdered 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians)

The Pope who started the Crusades was a Catholic. So was the Pope who ransacked Constantinople. So was the Pope who ransacked Jerusalem.

The Popes who conducted the Inquisition were Catholics.

Ivan the Terrible was a Russian Orthodox.
Yoweri Museveni, president of Uganda, is a Christian
Milenko Trifunovic, Brano Dzinic, Aleksandar Radovanovic, Milos Stupar, Slobodan Jakovljevic Branislav Medan and Petar Mitrovic, Nikola Jorgić, Bosnian Serb convicted of genocide, are Serbian Orthodox Christians.

Hitler.... Christian.

Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon, who were responsible for mass murders in Vietnam, were Protestants.

Captain Ernest Medina, who ordered the My Lai killings (but was acquitted in a cover-up), and Second Lieutenant William Calley (convicted but pardoned in a cover-up), who actually carried them out, are both Christians.

Anders Behring Breivik,Christian

Charles Manson is so religious he thinks he is the second coming of christ.

Mass murderer, cannibal and homosexual Geoffrey Dahmer claims to be christian.

en.wikipedia.org...

The fact religious folks feel religion can cure serious ailments... www.psychopathfree.com...

I don't need to link any of that pray away the gay bull#.

Soooooo..... Those are some pretty good examples of really awful christian folk... It goes the same with any religion, but it's usually Christian, or Jewish folk who come after the Atheists. Don't get me started with the Jewish. Totally just as guilty of really insane terrible #, but they tend to pull the Antisemitism card as soon as you try to hold them responsible for anything negative.

Well good sir, you have yourself a wonderful day.

What it all really comes down to is whether it's mentally ill to rely on your sense of empathy when it comes to relationships. Whether it's mentally ill to believe in only that which you can touch. Whether it's mentally ill to rely on yourself first and foremost should any trouble arise.

Personally, I call that independent and reliable. Not mentally ill. I mean, it's a far sight better than praying to an invisible entity with about the same results as praying to a grapefruit. Not to mention you get things done better and faster when you do it yourself. More satisfaction, a cleaner finish. Earning that bread with the skin off your own back. Teach a man to fish and all that. But what do I know, right? I'm just an atheist.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Dear AfterInfinity,

I expect you've addressed this, but I've missed it.

As an atheist, I take my morals and values from this little thing I like to call empathy.

All right, fine. Empathy is nice, it's recommended by Sesame Street and Public schools everywhere. Empathy involves sharing or identifying with other peoples' feelings. Since your morals and values come from this, it must be your highest value.

Why?

Why is it a higher value than honesty, faithfulness, non-violence, self-sacrifice, or any of dozens of popular values running around loose, all vying for "Highest Value" honors?

Did you pick it because you like it the best? Perhaps it's easiest for your personality to practice? Is it easier for you to be empathetic than honest? Do you think empathy is "better" than honesty, or some other virtue? It's certainly more empathetic, but what scale did you use to measure truth against empathy and decide empathy was more important?

But, maybe you think it's the value that will allow humans to survive a hundred years longer than if they picked some other value? If so, then empathy isn't your highest value, it's survival. There are ugly names for people who prefer survival above every other consideration.

If you rely on a god to give you morals, that must mean you have no empathy.

What? How does that follow? Or, what logical analysis did you utilize to reach that conclusion?

That's one of the key characteristics of psychopathy, did you know that? The inability or reduced ability to empathize with fellow creatures. That's why it's so easy for them to hurt people.

So if we want to talk about "mentally ill"...well, you catch my drift, I'm sure.

That was a lot of fluff and non sequiturs to say religious people are crazy and hurt people. I know that's your belief, but those statements were roughly equivalent to ...., but never mind, there's nothing that that statement is equivalent to. It is entirely illogical and unsupported by anything.

But as always, I may have read it differently than you intended it, and I'd be glad to hear back from you.

With respect,
Charles1952