NSA broke privacy rules thousands of times per year

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by GArnold
On NPR this morning they said the NSA intercepts 32 petaflops of information not a year not a month not a week but a day. This number is obviously skewed as a pre emptive measure at Damage Control. Gen Hayden when he was in charge of the NSA was warned by his own lawyers the programs were illegal and he disregarded the information and went forward with more intrusive programs anyway. We will never know the truth but it will be shocking. The fact that the secret FISA courts were not informed of some programs is very disturbing. Hell the whole idea of secret courts is upsetting.

As I said in another thread the Who lyric
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" seems to apply to this fiasco.

I simply do not trust the US media to provide unbiased reporting on this matter.

edit on 16-8-2013 by GArnold because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-8-2013 by GArnold because: (no reason given)

Yeah I had read on one of these stories where the NSA implemented a program months before notifying the courts.. the courts ruled that particular program as unconstitutional .. did the NSA shut it down as a result? .. we will never know.. my hunch? no.

One thing is for certain.. this is a public relations disaster as well as an international disaster.. the whole world is watching as the government gets caught in lies about this... if I were them, I would be very worried.. I don't think they know quite how much has actually been leaked by Snowden to date... the fact they publicly denied any abuses only to have those abuses leaked by way of this internal audit seems to prove that.. so I imagine they will be treading lightly as a result.. especially since other countries are getting a bit riled up about this.

Of course the smart thing to do would be to shut these programs down, but that's not going to happen..

Nothing so far has given me any indication Snowden is not a smart guy. I think there is no question he has an "insurance file" to protect himself. The release would be devastating to the US I am sure. I believe Greenwald when he says he has more info from Snowden that he will release when the time is right. I believe him as well when he says Snowden does have an insurance file. I am not trusting the US media handling of this at all. Very much beholden to special interests and terrified of losing the special access the Govt grants them. Der Spiegal, The Guardian and a couple other foreign papers seen to on top of the story for the most part. I do not trust the motives of the Post in releasing this information. As I said.. Pre emptive damage control. As it is Americans are getting apathetic over this and the interest is starting to wain,

I don't think there's a more apt phrase for this than:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

When there is no accountability, no one to answer to, we will see an abuse of power.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
I don't think there's a more apt phrase for this than:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

When there is no accountability, no one to answer to, we will see an abuse of power.

This has been going on since at least 2001 and the Patriot act. There is a lot of information that on some level the Govt has been spying on citizens since WW1. They are banking on the fact people have the attention span of a gnat and really do not care.

WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials. Under a presidential order signed in 2002, the intelligence agency has monitored the international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants over the past three years in an effort to track possible "dirty numbers" linked to Al Qaeda, the officials said. The agency, they said, still seeks warrants to monitor entirely domestic communications.

www.nytimes.com...

That was from the Pulitzer Prize article in the NY Times in 2005 or 8 damm years ago.

There is very little difference anymore between the two major polical parties in the US. The idea of choice is an illusion. The idea it makes a difference likewise is an illusion. We are being played like a grand piano. There is no accountability because that is what they want. There is the illusion that in some way we have a say of what happens in Washington.



.

My poor brother in law thinks the government would never spy on its own people. I told my father in law that the governments super computers up near Baltimore listened in to ALL our phone calls several years back. They would use this computer to scampi calls looking for key words. Once flagged, the call would be scanned again for content. If it "hit" again, someone would actually listen to the call. My brother in law thought it was impossible our government would do this. My poor father in law brought it up again (when I wasn't there) and he went off on him saying he was crazy for believing any of this. I so much want to call him up and ask him how he feels now, but I won't.

I saw some idiot ex CIA operative on the news today doing his beat to defend this nonsense.
First of all, there is FAR too much data to be thoroughly audited. This is very much a random sample of cases. The actual numbers would be through the roof!

Anyhow, he was going on about how its a small percentage. Then the guy ended his appeal by asking us to remember the Boston Bombing (I am firmly in the opinion that event was a psy-op/cover for the fertilizer plant bombing at this point)!! The Boston Bombing should serve to show us that these programs are INEFFECTIVE!
These programs true purpose is to establish a stronger nanny state. Plus they grant the NSA the ability to basically control the world with leverage over anyone they choose to control.

This is THE MOST outrageous thing I have ever heard. Ever.

OMG!! It's the end of the world!! Really? Really? Is this the most important thing that most of us are concerned about? Or is a small few that just really have nothing better to do than complain today?

Honestly, I don't see how this affects most of us. Perhaps like me, we woke up, saw it was a nice day, went to work, filled our cars up with over-priced gas, came home, stopped first to go to the grocery store, then hurried home to get Sally and Harry off to their soccer and softball games. Then come home, help with homework after dinner.

Go to bed, and do it all over again tomorrow! I don't mean to brush this NSA program off lightly, but for most of us, we have absolutely nothing to be worried about!

Have a nice day, try not to worry so much, you'll find, not much YOU can do about it anyway!

Added Comment: ...and I realize my response espouses sounds of apathy, probably true, but since we've all kind of focused our attention to this NSA topic, you may ask yourself, what is it that they don't want you to pay attention to? While the talking heads on t.v. and newspapers run with this topic, what's happening that we are not focused on??

Do you all remember the patriot act that the democrats said was so bad?
Then obamas administration extended the bill. Damn hypocrites...
Did anyone actually believe when they got their foot in the door it would ever be closed again?

reply to post by ItDepends


True enough, but if one is a hopeless romantic defending the rule of law and the US Constitution, it means something.

As Oliver Stone put it recently, the question is not "do you have something to hide?", the question is do we control the government, or does the government control us?

A complacent citizenry combined with an aggressive and usurping government has brought us to where we are now. Can that trajectory be changed? With posts like yours, I doubt it very much.

Even without posts like yours, I doubt it very much.

reply to post by IAMTAT

the whole "whoops, we confused egypt with DC" is complete crap.

first you must have a number with the U.S exit code: 011. then the country code of the nation you're calling (egypt is 20) then you input the area code (egypt has one area code that is simply "2"). the number would look like:

011-20-2-(insert number here)

similarly to call from egypt to another country you must use the exit code (i believe it's 00 for egypt to the U.S.) then the code of the country you wish to call (U.S. is 1, D.C. is 2, etc) then you'd enter the area code and phone number.

it is a complete lie that they got them mixed up.

I don't believe it. It had to be more than thousands of times.

Originally posted by Salander
reply to post by ItDepends

 

True enough, but if one is a hopeless romantic defending the rule of law and the US Constitution, it means something.

As Oliver Stone put it recently, the question is not "do you have something to hide?", the question is do we control the government, or does the government control us?

A complacent citizenry combined with an aggressive and usurping government has brought us to where we are now. Can that trajectory be changed? With posts like yours, I doubt it very much.

Even without posts like yours, I doubt it very much.

I truly understand what you are saying. However, Just speaking for myself, We are living in a new era, a new world of extreme violence. All you have to do is read up on the Middle East and the many factions of terror and afffiliated groups whose only goal in life is to kill the Great Satan, the United States. I realize things are not perfect, they never are. I believe that the NSA and its' activities were set up and still are set up to protect America and its' citizens.

Perhaps apathy was not the correct sentiment. Rather, just understanding the world as it is, and accepting that these terror groups are out there and knowing our Gov't is using all of its' tools to protect us. In the meantime, I choose not to run and hide and be scared. All you have to do is go back to any number of documentaries shown on t.v. regarding 09/01/01(We Must NEVER FORGET) and that travesty makes it so real as to the horrific nature of the terrorists. So, with that as the back drop, our government has needed to do something, and, true, I personally have nothing to hide, and If I saw something out of place, I'd be the first to be on the phone alerting the proper authorities.

So as much as I am in favor of our Intelligence agencies and believe in what they do, I also believe our Legislature needs to be more proactively involved in overseeing these efforts.